posted July 09, 2014 04:56 PM            

This gave me a new idea...

Do you think that the people who match your 2nd and 11th house - who you attract - would have your placements in their romance houses? Like, using my own chart as an example, I have Scorpio on the 2nd house cusp with Pluto in Scorpio in the 2nd house. Then I meet someone with Venus conjunct Pluto in the 8th who likes what they see.

Actually, one of my relationships was with someone with Venus square Pluto. Moreover, my Pluto makes a square to the 11th house and that same Venus square Pluto guy had it between Aquarius and Scorpio.
Then Pluto also sextiles Mars tightly -- he had Mars opposition Pluto.
That same Mars in H11 tightly trines Saturn and my Sun gets a sesquisquare -- he was a Capricorn.

If we're going with that these houses are the "you" houses, you'd act out this energy a lot and of course some people will have whatever signs your 1st, 2nd and 11th are on their Descendant. I think this could especially be true for your 1st house, as this is your general way of acting, introducing yourself and image.

posted July 10, 2014 02:24 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Wild Horses:
I do think his 11th ruler Leo Sun being in my 1st will make it obvious how much I admire him, though.

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posted July 10, 2014 04:26 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by meissieri:
This gave me a new idea...

Do you think that the people who match your 2nd and 11th house - who you attract - would have your placements in their romance houses? Like, using my own chart as an example, I have Scorpio on the 2nd house cusp with Pluto in Scorpio in the 2nd house. Then I meet someone with Venus conjunct Pluto in the 8th who likes what they see.

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Wow! I like it. Great thinking.

Let's see ...

My 2R (VIR VEN) is 12H. (That explains a bit.) Does it come back to me? Well, I do tend to seek out those whose placements activate my locked-away VENUS. But my 11R is 3H SCO MOON. It's tightly conjunct URA. I DO definitely attract Uranian types.

Theoretically, that would mean someone with these energies in harmony would more easily express (or at least, to where I could receive it) their love or interest.

Well, there are two that come immediately to mind: one's got a 1° trine between his VENUS and MOON; another, a loose sextile between his VENUS and MOON (6°). (His URA is parallel his MOON, so that might show the inconsistency -- even though it's energy I can handle.) Another still, has his VENUS exactly quincunx his MOON, 0°. Yes, I'd say we've had to 'adjust' our perceptions of what it means to be loved to one another -- learning a different style.

Interesting!

Now, if we put them together -- PIS VEN? I don't have much experience with them, so I can't say.

But my 11H influence is 3H MOON; so -- GEM MOON? That's happened a few times. Not always that noteworthy.

posted July 10, 2014 06:00 AM            

I just wanted to make a few points in general to help answer some of people’s questions, especially about mutuality.

Okay, the 7th house is meant to represent our partner. Using derivative houses explains why we energetically attract with our 11th, 1st, 2nd houses. When we turn the chart around and make the Dsc the Asc in our natal chart the 11th, 1st, and 2nd houses become our symbolic partner’s 5th, 7th and 8th houses. That means, that in general, we attract the people symbolic of our 11th, 1st and 2nd houses as if we were somehow filling up THEIR 5th, 7th, and 8th houses. This is just a generalized energy pattern we have in our chart.

For example, if we have Libra on the 11th house cusp, we may often attract Libra-like admirers due to the energy pattern of our chart. However, this does not mean that every Libra we meet will adore us. Of course not. Individual synastry always comes into play. A person being a Libra would not at all guarantee that they will love us. What does happen, though, is that due to synchronicity, and just the energetic pattern of how we are as a person, when we do experience intense admiration the person who is doing the admiring will have Libra-ish tones to their natal chart. Like we were just fated to experience things that way.

This is a rather simplistic way to put it because the 11th, 1st, and 2nd houses are way more then just he signs on the cusp. Hopefully you guys get what I mean. Some random person putting planets in our 2nd house is not a guarantee that they will see us as ‘valuable’, especially if the synastry is lacking strong connections. But due to the energy pattern of our chart, when we do experience the feeling of being valued for what we have to offer, that person is very likely to be positively influencing our 2nd house. It just seems to work out that way for us overall in life.

Often when we meet people we have very strong connections with this will show in multiple ways though out the synastry. If someone we’re deeply connected with puts planets in our 11th house, or strongly aspects it’s ruler, it’s likely that they adore us. And as fate would have it, when we look at their chart we are often able to see why that is based on the symbolism of the partner’s chart. Maybe our Sun trines their 5th house ruler, or our Venus is in their 5th house aspecting their Mars. There are many ways we could press our partner’s 5th, 7th, 8th house buttons in such a way. One way or another, the natural appreciation that we experience from them based on our 11th, 1st and 2nd houses in synastry will show in our connection their natal chart as well. If they’re doing something to our 11th it’s highly likely that we’re doing something to their 5th, and Vise Versa if we love them back! Again, there seems to be a kind synchronicity at work here. In really strong love relationships it just seems to work out that the mutuality can be seen in the synastry, house overlays, and house ruler connections. It’s hard to explain the rhyme and reason behind it all. That’s just the way things play out.

Going back to keeping things simple. If we have Libra on the 11th house cusp, this increases the likelihood the we’ll be influencing the 5th, 7th, or 8th houses (especially the 5th house) of the Libra-like people that we do happen to meet. That’s because energetically we usually attract adoration from these folks. If we have Virgo on the 2nd house cusp, this increases the likelihood that we’ll be influencing the 5th, 7th, or 8th houses (especially the 8th house) of the Virgo’s that we do happen to meet because we usually attract appreciation from these types. If we have a Pisces on the Asc, this increases the likelihood that we’ll be influencing the 5th, 7th, or 8th houses (especially the 7th house) of the Pisceans that we do happen to meet because we usually attract affection from fishy people. The energy pattern of our natal chart influences the different types of experiences we have with different types of people in a weird coincidental kind of way.

Oh yeah, and I think Ceri has a point with the East/West Axis and the Us/Them dichotomy being at work here. The Mc/Ic Axis divides the chart into two halves. The side with the Asc on it symbolizes our energy that we can attract with, while the side with the Dsc on it symbolizes the energy of others that we are attracted to. When it comes to romantic relationships the 1st/7th , 2nd/8th, and 5th/11th houses are the most relevant.

posted July 10, 2014 06:58 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
As I was saying about the 11th house, someone falling there is also a potential "wish, dream, hope" of ours - 11th house - [b]magical house of hopes and wishes, where higher aspirations and dreams come true. Well, this is the traditional meaning. Perhaps it's outdated? Or maybe it is our wish to be adored fulfilled here? That makes sense.

EDIT: And Lotis, could you highlight the difference for each planet falling into someone's 11th house? I'm a bit confused myself on this one, the 11th being a house of idealization hence blurry.

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Okay so traditionally the 11th house is the house of our social aspirations and our vision and hopes for the future. You know how Uranus is associated with tech stuff as well as social issues stuff. Basically we all have our own personal vision of how we want the future to be (hopes and wishes), often this vision will involves the social and technological development necessary for us to live in what we’d consider to be an ideal world. We all have our own opinion of what an ’ideal world’ would be like. The symbolism of our 11th house, amongst other things, describes the way we’d like to see society modified, and the types of advances we’d like to see occurring around us, in order for our vision of the ’ideal world’ or utopia to come into reality. We often join societies and groups in order to further our personal vision of the future.

A person with Gemini on the 11th house cusp may want to see the way society communicates modified or improved. A person with Leo on the 11th house may want to see dating practices and child rearing modified or improved. A person with Cancer on the 11th house may want to see improvements in family life across society, and perhaps improvement in opportunities for security. And so on. When a person puts planets in our 11th house, apart from appreciating us, they are also able to offer input into our personal vision of the future, and support us in the creation of this future. They have a way of highlighting issues that we find interesting and relevant .

Someone’s Venus in our 11th , for instance, would have a relating style and social skills that somehow highlight issues we are interested in and support our vision of the future.

quote:

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
For example, in my synastry, my "beloved" lol has his Sun (11th ruler) in my 2nd. But my Leo Moon (DSC ruler) is in his 11th.

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Okay, for his 11th house ruler in your 2nd house… Symbolically what you ‘have’ to offer and are able to contribute in a relationship is supportive of his Vision of the future and makes him feel appreciated.

For your 7th house ruler, the Moon, in his 11th house… Your way of relating, and reaching out, as well as being nurturing and caring, again, makes him feel appreciated and validates his personal vision of the future. From your side, his aspirations and ideals about what he’d like to see happen helps to cement your connection to him as a partner, and provides a foundation for your ‘togetherness’. The way he receives your affection would fit in with your relationship needs.

posted July 10, 2014 07:35 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by Lotis White:
Okay, for his 11th house ruler in your 2nd house… Symbolically what you ‘have’ to offer and are able to contribute in a relationship is supportive of his Vision of the future and makes him feel appreciated.

For your 7th house ruler, the Moon, in his 11th house… Your way of relating, and reaching out, as well as being nurturing and caring, again, makes him feel appreciated and validates his personal vision of the future. From your side, his aspirations and ideals about what he’d like to see happen helps to cement your connection to him as a partner, and provides a foundation for your ‘togetherness’. The way he receives your affection would fit in with your relationship needs.

I’m not going to describe every planet in the 11th via synastry though, this would take all night. Ha ha!

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lol Thank you! Maybe another night ...or day.

posted July 10, 2014 07:50 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by Lotis White:
Hi everyone,

I just wanted to make a few points in general to help answer some of people’s questions, especially about mutuality.

Okay, the 7th house is meant to represent our partner. Using derivative houses explains why we energetically attract with our 11th, 1st, 2nd houses. When we turn the chart around and make the Dsc the Asc in our natal chart the 11th, 1st, and 2nd houses become our symbolic partner’s 5th, 7th and 8th houses. That means, that in general, we attract the people symbolic of our 11th, 1st and 2nd houses as if we were somehow filling up THEIR 5th, 7th, and 8th houses. This is just a generalized energy pattern we have in our chart.

For example, if we have Libra on the 11th house cusp, we may often attract Libra-like admirers due to the energy pattern of our chart. However, this does not mean that every Libra we meet will adore us. Of course not. Individual synastry always comes into play. A person being a Libra would not at all guarantee that they will love us. What does happen, though, is that due to synchronicity, and just the energetic pattern of how we are as a person, when we do experience intense admiration the person who is doing the admiring will have Libra-ish tones to their natal chart. Like we were just fated to experience things that way.

This is a rather simplistic way to put it because the 11th, 1st, and 2nd houses are way more then just he signs on the cusp. Hopefully you guys get what I mean. Some random person putting planets in our 2nd house is not a guarantee that they will see us as ‘valuable’, especially if the synastry is lacking strong connections. But due to the energy pattern of our chart, when we do experience the feeling of being valued for what we have to offer, that person is very likely to be positively influencing our 2nd house. It just seems to work out that way for us overall in life.

Often when we meet people we have very strong connections with this will show in multiple ways though out the synastry. If someone we’re deeply connected with puts planets in our 11th house, or strongly aspects it’s ruler, it’s likely that they adore us. And as fate would have it, when we look at their chart we are often able to see why that is based on the symbolism of the partner’s chart. Maybe our Sun trines their 5th house ruler, or our Venus is in their 5th house aspecting their Mars. There are many ways we could press our partner’s 5th, 7th, 8th house buttons in such a way. One way or another, the natural appreciation that we experience from them based on our 11th, 1st and 2nd houses in synastry will show in our connection their natal chart as well. If they’re doing something to our 11th it’s highly likely that we’re doing something to their 5th, and Vise Versa if we love them back! Again, there seems to be a kind synchronicity at work here. In really strong love relationships it just seems to work out that the mutuality can be seen in the synastry, house overlays, and house ruler connections. It’s hard to explain the rhyme and reason behind it all. That’s just the way things play out.

Going back to keeping things simple. If we have Libra on the 11th house cusp, this increases the likelihood the we’ll be influencing the 5th, 7th, or 8th houses (especially the 5th house) of the Libra-like people that we do happen to meet. That’s because energetically we usually attract adoration from these folks. If we have Virgo on the 2nd house cusp, this increases the likelihood that we’ll be influencing the 5th, 7th, or 8th houses (especially the 8th house) of the Virgo’s that we do happen to meet because we usually attract appreciation from these types. If we have a Pisces on the Asc, this increases the likelihood that we’ll be influencing the 5th, 7th, or 8th houses (especially the 7th house) of the Pisceans that we do happen to meet because we usually attract affection from fishy people. The energy pattern of our natal chart influences the different types of experiences we have with different types of people in a weird coincidental kind of way.

Oh yeah, and I think Ceri has a point with the East/West Axis and the Us/Them dichotomy being at work here. The Mc/Ic Axis divides the chart into two halves. The side with the Asc on it symbolizes our energy that we can attract with, while the side with the Dsc on it symbolizes the energy of others that we are attracted to. When it comes to romantic relationships the 1st/7th , 2nd/8th, and 5th/11th houses are the most relevant.

I hope this answered some questions.

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posted July 10, 2014 10:33 AM              

I looked at some aspects of give-and-take on the 5th/11th axis in famous couples, I'm listing just a few of the ones they have as a sample, planets only!

The Burtons

her 5th house, no major aspect to his 5th/11th
but her 5th ruler, Venus, a lovely biquintile to his 5th/sec 5th, the Moon and quincunx to his 11th/sec 11th, Saturn
plus his Sun/Saturn conjunct her Moon in her 11th
her Saturn (sec 5th) in his 11th

Composite
empty 5th
Merc, 5th rule disp by Saturn
Mars conjunct Saturn in 11th

Joanne/Paul Newman

her 5th with Jupiter in it falling in his 5th
empty 11th houses
5th r Venus sextile 5th r Merc
her Pluto (11th) opposes his Merc (5th) etc

Composite

empty 5th
Saturn, ASC r in 11th
5th r Venus sextile Saturn
11th r Pluto on DSC quincunx Venus

Linda/Paul

his Neptune(DSC r) in her 11th
her 5th r Neptune conjunct this one
her Pluto (ASC r) in his 11th sextile his 5th r

Composite
no major aspects/overlays, but a perfet quintile between 5th and 11th r

Elizabeth/Robert Browning

5th rulers in trine
11th rulers conjunct
his sec 5th square her 11th

Composite

Sun/Merc/Jupiter in the 5th, Merc rules 11th, connected to Mars in sec 11th

Michael Douglas/Catherine Zeta

His Moon in her 5h
His huge Sun stellium in her 11th, where her Sun/Neptune is
His Saturn (ASC r) in her sec 11th
Her Merc/Jupiter in his sec 11th

Composite

Neptune (IC r) in 11th
5th ruler sextile 11th ruler

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posted July 10, 2014 12:39 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Nicely put, Ceri. Traditionally, the 11th is considered a "friendship" house, but in practice, when we have a romantic/love synastry overall, I've noticed the 11th is almost always activated somehow. In this respect, I think it is associated with: kinship, a sense of fellowship, mutual love, love returned, unconditional love, platonic in the sense of idealized love/person and, of course, a twinflame vibe Still thinking about this one (the 11th)

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posted July 10, 2014 01:04 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by unforgiven_soul:
Of courde it does, because in a complete relationship you have to be friends most of all and have a platonic vibe too, otherwise it won't last. My progressed Moon just entered Capricorn and really soon will enter my 11th house, I'm sensing that sth will happen now...

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Yes, I agree, but sometimes 11th house placements were interpreted as: "this relationship has nothing romantic, it's just a friendship". I don't think it's necessarily so, 11th can be very romantic.

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posted July 10, 2014 01:41 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Yes, I agree, but sometimes 11th house placements were interpreted as: "this relationship has nothing romantic, it's just a friendship". I don't think it's necessarily so, 11th can be very romantic.

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posted July 12, 2014 10:07 AM              

I'm not sure the 2nd house is a place where we offer. "I have" means, in a way, "I take" and, in another way, "I enjoy" - in an earthy, hedonistic, rather egotistical way - Taurus as an earthy sensual sign enjoying anonymous pure pleasure for the sake of it. In order to offer, we have to go to the 8th house.

I hope it's not a problem to post it here, I'm not sure how PG the forum is lol
I'm inclined to define the sexual axis as:

2nd
- our basic physical needs in sex, basic approach and sensuality, our body as a sexual object, for ourselves and the others (it was, in a way, defined as the house of...well pleasuring oneself), our libido

- physical preferences when it comes to sex, perhaps some erogenous zones, perhaps some clues on our body type

- the tangible sexual allure of our body, our "assets", our "talents" when it comes to sex lol

- it's probably active in a simple affair where our sole purpose is physical pleasure

- our sexual set of values

- what we have to offer in the most physical sense (such as basic behavior in a random sexual encounter focused on selfish lol or mutual pleasure)

- what gives us satisfaction, makes us feel appreciated in a tangible physical way, makes us feel desired

- I think it is safe to say people with placements here are physically attracted to us, very attracted to our body/body type and all in a physical way, want to touch us all the times, this is also a good placement for physical sexual compatibility between two bodies, in return, with their planets here, we can enjoy ourselves and the other in the most physical sense, we feel our sexual physical needs fulfilled, here is the hedonistic part of the relationship. We respond to their desire by feeling appreciated and valued in this respect.

-house of physical sex; our physical sexual self

- this is where physical Eros lives

8th

- the house where we choose the long-term sexual partner, the one we feel completed with on all levels (emotional, transformational etc.). People aspecting this house make us want to seek a deep emotionally fulfilling sexual relationship with them, to explore sex and go in depth, beyond physical sensuality. We are touched in the deepest core of our desires and our emotions are very deep (in a Scorpionic way) with the ones touching this house, as opposed to pure physical attraction in our 2nd house. This house shows us which sexual partner we want to commit to.

- the house showing what kind of a long-term, committed sexual partner we are. As it is with all relationship houses, firstly they show what kind of partner WE are in that respect, and as a reflection, what kind of partner we seek.

- what kind of lover we are in an all-encompassing sense, when the physical merges with the emotional. What kind of lover we seek.

- it is the house where we SHARE sex and where sex becomes an all-encompassing experience, so people aspecting this house makes us want to go beyond physical pleasure and self-enjoyment, we transcend our own physical desires in this house and want to merge with another on equal terms, we may even become selfless and self-giving

- it is safe to say people with placements in this house awaken this desire in us, to see sex more than physical pleasure and a hedonistic affair of the body - with them. In return, people with placements here get to see this side of us, and they may be attracted by the promise of deep sexuality and eroticism with us, beyond the physical. I think people with placements here might find us alluring, sexy and mysterious at the same time, perceive our deep erotic side, beyond our physicality.

-house of emotional sex, our emotional sexual self

- this is where Eros as a transformation vehicle lives

Of course, this is the view on the houses pertaining only to the matter.

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posted July 12, 2014 10:11 AM              

I agree with you.

Especially the sepcific interpretation guidelines.

I do think the 2nd house is what we "offer" though in the sense, that it is what is with us, what we are carrying around with us so to speak, our body and all these tangible things you mentioned.

It does not yet mean we offer it TO a certain other person, THAT happens in the 8th house, but it is our inborn asset.

posted July 12, 2014 10:18 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:

I do think the 2nd house is what we "offer" though in the sense, that it is what is with us, what we are carrying around with us so to speak, our body and all these tangible things you mentioned.

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Thanks, Ceri. Yes, I agree, and it is never exclusively one/sided on this axis, there is always some give -and- take and usually mirroring is so strong in human relationships. For example, our needs in the 2nd house make us offer the same in our first approach, assuming the other has the same needs.

And I agree that our "assets" in the 2nd house (in this respect also) are some sort of "currency", so they are, in a sense, what we have to offer.