posted October 25, 2002 12:42 AM         

Over in Uni-versal Codes in a thread about Pyramids we kind of veered off into a coversation about the "legend" of King Arthur. Since even the most psychic among us would never open a thread about Pyramids looking for a discussion of Camelot we decided to bring it here....

To save you the trip to find that thread, here's what's gone on so far. Please comment, even if you believe the "legend" is really just a legend. I want to know everyone's opinion on any and all aspects of the time...

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Hopeful
Moderator

Shamrock - I love reading about Avalon and King Arthur also. Are you willing to share some of your thoughts? That is what lead me toward the wiccan/pagan literature.

Mythology has also always intrigued me - as far back as the fifth grade. I believe it and the other things you've mentioned - atlantis, stonehenge - are all connected - as is everyone and everything.

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Jaqueline
Knowflake

Hi shamrock227

Like you,I am also interested a lot in these themes.
Have you heard about The Nazca Lines?
I was there there almost two years ago and it was a fascinating experience. http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/rosalind.htm http://skepdic.com/nazca.html

NOTE FROM SHAMROCK: (I know this doesn't really have anything to do with Arthur or Camelot, but check the links out anyway -- it's amazing)

Jakie
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shamrock227
Knowflake

Hopeful, just try and stop me from talking about the once and future King.

Since I can go on for like a million pages, is there anywhere in particular you'd like to start? (maybe we should start a new thread for this one). However, I truly believe in King Arthur and Merlin and the rest. I don't, however, agree with ANY of the King Arthur movies. I adore most of them for the artistic pieces they are and watch them all on a regular basis, but none of them have the story straight. I like Merlin the best for artistry and casting and I like Excalibur the most for the closest to the truth (of the movies) story, but it had terrible casting (nothing wrong with the actors themselves, they were wonderful and they did a fabulous job -- but the looks and mannerisms were all off). The other ones, well, I adore First Knight and with Richard Gere, Julia Ormond, and Sean Connery how could you go wrong? It was a good story, but if we are searching for truth here - puhleeez! First of all Arthur was not that old, second of all -- oh, forget it there's so many holes in that story I could walk through them <http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/wink.gif> . {I started to write about the books, but I bagged it - I'm long winded enough already <http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/biggrin.gif> } And, BTW, I believe I was there (Camelot) in a past life. No one important, not Guinevere or anything, but someone close enough to know what was going on. Probably a handmaiden or a servent of some sort. It's just kind of bizarre how I "know" what is right and what is made up. I remember watching Excalibur for the first time with a bunch of my friends and I perked up and said "this is such crap, Arthur looked nothing like that!" Of course, my friends were all "shut up. what were you there or something?" (I would never have lived it down if I said "as a matter of fact, I was" <http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/smile.gif> )

Jakie, I have never heard of the Nazca Lines before. I quickly skimmed your first link and it looks very interesting. What were your impressions of the area?

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Hopeful
Moderator

shamrock - have you read "Mists of Avalon?" I loved the book. It is much better than the movie (in my opinion). THere is a long string somewhere here about it. I also read the Guinevere trilogy - which doesn't paint Arthur or Merlin in the best light but is still enjoyable. I just saw "First Knight" recently - as you said, it was entertaining but not completely accurate.

I think it's a great idea to start a string somewhere about Avalon/King Arthur. Why don't you start us off? <http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/flower.gif>

Hopeful <http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/smile.gif>
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AmberVonSchriek
Knowflake

The Mists Of Avalon is my favorite book ever!

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shamrock227
Knowflake
I have Mists of Avalon, and the prequel The Forest House. They are on my "to read" list. Sounds like I should bump them up the list a bit <http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/smile.gif>

I also have The Fall of Atlantis by her, has anyone read that one?

Taking this converation off to Free-for-All...
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And, now you're up to date

posted October 25, 2002 01:30 AM           

I have The Forest House, Mists of Avalon, and another one I'll have to go get the title because I haven't read it yet. I haven't read the Fall of Atlantis, though. I'd like to! It sounds good.

I do believe Arthur was a real person but how close he was to myth I don't really know. I used to have a book about the real Arthur based on history and theory but when I moved out here to Los Angeles it disappeared.

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Come take my hand ..You should know me ..I've always been in your mind ..You know that I'll be kind ..I'll be guiding you ..You have to believe we are magic ..Nothin' can stand in our way ..You have to believe we are magic ..Don't let your aim ever stray ..And if all your hopes survive ..Your destiny will arrive ..I'll bring all your dreams alive ..For you

posted October 25, 2002 10:20 AM         

What does The Grail mean to all of you? I have my own thoughts on the matter but would like to hear others first!

posted October 25, 2002 03:43 PM         

King Arthur was a good man and for the most part he chose his Knights wisely. But even the best of men can lose their way faced with first the "good" years - where there was not much for them to do. They became idle and fat and complacent and careless and did not see what lay before them -- years of war and seeing their people that they had pledged to protect living in famine and squalor on ravaged land. All men, even the best ones, have weaknesses -- flesh, power, money, fame - very few can't be "bought". The Quest to find the Grail was to purify themselves, to "come back to the light", as it were. And, in healing and purifying themselves they would regain their strength and in turn be able to heal and purify the land and it's people. To pull themselves out of what they had gotten themselves into.

Or, something like that
(I'll probably have to edit this later -- I'm trying to write and do my work at the same time.)

Come on now, Hopeful -- I've dominated this thread. Time for you to spill your thoughts before my keyboard wears out

You too Amber. You say you don't know how close he was to the myth -- but what do you think? Does any of it sound possible or impossible to you? Does any of it make you feel like "yes, that's right" or "no, that doesn't seem or feel right". Not just Arthur. What do you think of Merlin or Morgan or Mordred or, heck, just any of the others.

posted October 26, 2002 08:38 PM           

*hugs*

posted October 26, 2002 08:53 PM         

-When it comes to King Arthur I have so much to say. I love it when people talk about this.
But one thing I can't do, is read or watch a movie about him, it just never feels right! I tried watching "First Knight" and I couldn't stand looking at Sean Connery...it just ticked me off. King Arthur didn't look like that nor did he even talk like that!

I've only read bits and pieces from books becuase I always felt the books were misleading...always being rather skeptical, never putting detail in the Knights and somehow avoiding the mystical.

-Strangely the Historians have it all wrong too. King Arthur existed in 750 AD not 500 AD which is believed.

-The one thing that I really know is off which I feel was planted there by some opposing force is Morgan Le Fay. This character bothers me so much and I don't know why. I believe this character misleads people and makes most believe that the story was completley made up. Mordred is another character that bothers the crap out of me.

-As for the grail, YES there is an actual cup that is being protected. Yes, there were only 12 Knights who sat at the Roundtable. Yes, there was a Merlin. Yes, Guinevere existed and she loved them both, not one for the other, BOTH.

-King Arthur was a Leo and he was terribly stubborn! But he was kind, goodhearted, noble, and loving. He was young and handsome and also terribly shy with women which is why he was truly loyal.

-Lancelot was very handsome and kind hearted. Lancelot was desperatly in love with Elaine and they were the parents of Sir Galahad. Elaine had died of a sickness when Lancelot was away and he always blamed himself. He had grieved for many years and Guinevere reminded him a lot of her. Elaine was his real love.

-I still believe Guinevere loved King Arthur more.
-Yet Lancelot was the one who seduced her. Lancelot was a great person who was loved by King Arthur as a best friend. But becuase of Lancelot's arrogance and pride he commited the sin that would eventually divide the Roundtable. It wasn't really Guinevere's fault. Legend has it that King Arthur before his death forgave them both!
Lancelot became a hermit and Guinevere became a nun, never saw each other again.

-Camelot was an old Saxon Kingdom that was overtaken by King Arthur and his band of army. The Saxons were very evil at that time and they would rape and murder the angles that lived there first.
King Arthur was an Angle and Camelot became a place where all the knights could live with there families. Camelot was the place to go when you needed protection.

-Merlin was a true prophet who took care of King Arthur and taught him how to be a good person.

posted October 26, 2002 09:57 PM         

-Oh yes, and ofcourse another thing...King Arthur's Soul has been split into pieces and so there are people in this world who truly have a piece of King Arthur inside of them. But there is no telling who those special people may be.
Unfortunatly I have not yet recalled any of my own Past Life memories of Camelot but I spoke to different psychics who have told me I was Knight and one even claimed I was Sir Gareth but I still haven't discovered on my own yet!

posted October 27, 2002 07:07 PM         

StarLover33 - you are awesome!

I don't really have too much of a problem with the movies as "movies" -- yea I sit there and compain about casting and details and generally annoy my friends . I agree about Sean Connery - I like him as an actor, but he was just wayyyyy too old for the part (but, at least they didn't cast Leonardo DiCaprio ). Personally, I'd like to see Liam Neeson or Sean Bean as Arthur - still a bit too old, but I think they would still be more believable. You know who I liked - I don't even know his name, but he played Arthur in Merlin (possibly the least accurate movie ever made about the time but still one of my favorites)

Please, expound a bit on your feelings about Morgan and Mordred. Do you believe they did not exist at all, or just not the way they are put forth in some of the stories?

Personally, I believe that Arthur did have a jealous half sister that tried to usurp his power. The whole "disguising" herself and being with him once and managing to bear a son is all just a little too convenient. She perhaps did have a son, but it was not Arthur's son. She was the one who steered Guinevere towards Lancelot and Lancelot towards Guinevere - gave them the idea in the first place. Morgan was jealous and bitter and she hurt Arthur in the only way she knew how.

Guinevere loved Arthur and was empassioned by Lancelot. Arthur was neglectful at times -- he was trying to rule a country and keep invaders at bay for heaven's sake She found attention, comfort, and affection in the arms of Lancelot. He found the "face" of Elaine in her - she in some way reminded him of his wife, who he missed desperately. But it was not a "great" love, more than lust but less than real love. Arthur and Guinevere had the potential to be a "great" love if it were not for the interference.

And, I agree, he did forgive them. In fact, I think he forgave them long before he let either of them know. Guinevere was his wife and his first and only love. Lancelot was like a brother to him. I always wonder if Arthur and Guinevere ever found each other again in later lives.

posted October 27, 2002 07:44 PM         

-Elaine was his true love in which they bore Sir Galahad the holiest of Knights who was the one to witness the grail and go straight to heaven.
-I too even wonder if Guinevere and Arthur reunited in other lives...but I doubt it becuase there soul pieces have been split.

-If King Arthur does reincarnate it will be during a time of great terror in which the whole world is threatened. He will most likely be a Prime Minister for England who allies with Russia and USA.

-As for Lancelot when I look at Prince William I see a piece of Lancelot...not the reincarnated soul but a piece of him. After all he is considered the most good!

posted October 28, 2002 11:14 AM         

I have seen books that claim the Grail is one of the relics of the God/dess and books that claim it is a relic of Christ. I believe the ownership is irrelevant and that it is the Grail itself that is important and its meaning links chrisitanity and paganism together. I believe Starhawk said it best: "The secret of immortality lies in seeing death as an integral part of the cycle of life. Nothing is ever lost from the universe: rebirth can be seen in life itself, where every ending brings a new beginning."

posted October 28, 2002 06:05 PM         

-As for the grail I'll tell you exactly where it is, it is hidden underneath the ground where it won't be found until the Age Of Aquarius. It will be found by people who want to heal and purify the world by the destruction that we all know may occur.
It is in a tomb being kept secret by few who know where it belongs, but they dare not find it because only people who are pure at heart can see it.
-The original area is known to be Avalon and Avalon is still there but it's been purposely named differently.

I garantee it is in Glastonbury, England
underneath the ground found near the fountain of the lion, it's being protected by covered rocks...a tunnel! Avalon has been secretly renamed as Glastonbury

-Glastonbury will rename itself to Avalon and it will be one of the holiest places on earth.

The world will be at peace when the grail is found, and all the torn out christians will sing again!

posted October 28, 2002 06:52 PM         

"Only pure at hearts will find the grail."
-If you want fame you will never find it.
-If you want money you will never find it.
-If you want honor you will never find it.
-If you want power you will never find it.
-If you want recognition you will never find it.

If you want TRUE LOVE and PURIFICATION for the World and yourself, then and only then will you find the Holy Grail.