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Author
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Topic: Bowling for Columbine
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Venera
Knowflake Posts: 90
From: berlin, germany
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted May 23, 2003 05:21 PM
 
Hi there Know flakes,I just wanted to check if anyone of you had red "Stupid White Man" by Michael Moore (you know Moore, the big Moore  who dared to shout out proudly in the Oscar’s Night ( while taking his Best Documentary Oscar for "Bowling for Columbine" ): "We doo-oon´t like you, President Bush, we don’t like this war. Shame on you, President Bush, shame on you..".
I saw twice Bowling for Columbine (in English!), but I can only slowly read Michael Mores book. It’s simply too painful and although I am no American, it hurts to read about such a huge plot the most people in USA have to believe and such cold-blooded arrogance from the government. It hurts to share the lie this regime might represent the finest example of democracy ever known. It hurts when it’s clearly proven to you, that difference between black man and white man don’t exists for the law in USA only on paper. And knowing it doesn’t have to be like this hurts the most. Let`s talk about Michael Moore and his movies, his books and messages. How do you like him and the storys he tells? I will be glad over evey opinion. Peace and Love to you all
Much LOVE Venera
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Venera
Knowflake Posts: 90
From: berlin, germany
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted May 25, 2003 02:57 PM
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Harpyr
Knowflake Posts: 2255
From: land of the midnight sun
Registered: Dec 2002
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posted May 25, 2003 03:13 PM
Some parts made me kind of angry, like his overly simplistic 'solution' to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Non-violent direct action may have worked at some point previous to these last few years there but now the IDF just indescriminently shoots anyone they damn well please in the occupied territories without any repercussions or accountability so I don't think street marches or blockades would really work for the Palestinians.But anyways, there were many other parts of the book that were amazing. I wish some of those chapters were required reading in high school or something. He puts forth lucid arguments in very blunt terms with solid facts to back them up. The chapter on Republicrats/Demoblicans was awesome. The two party system in the US has become a farce and he lays forth some great examples of why. Also the chapter about prisons and the disporportionate amounts of people behind bars here was really good. So there's my ONION. I think there is a thread in the Global Unity forum about Michael Moore, if you are interested, Venera.
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proxieme
unregistered
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posted May 25, 2003 03:15 PM
I enjoyed it (the movie...haven't read the book), although - even as someone pretty liberal - I've got to say that there did seem to be some fuzzy fact finding (or rather, presentation) in some parts.IP: Logged |
morgana
Knowflake Posts: 920
From:
Registered: Nov 2002
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posted May 26, 2003 05:46 AM
I found it very amusing (the 1st part, of course), but I can understand that if you're American it can hurt you since it's somewhat simplified and it's too close to home... However, I think this is a good example how other countries, especially in Europe, see the USA. No offense, all you Americans out here, I'm merely stating a fact
And I found it very interesting in terms of relating the general atmosphere of the country to the sign of Cancer it belongs to. Anyone see this?  IP: Logged |
Lunargirl
Knowflake Posts: 1513
From:
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted May 28, 2003 11:48 PM
I've only seen his two films, but I also know someone who recommends the book. I thought that Bowling For Columbine was powerful-- it showed a much more anguished, human side of Michael Moore, rather than the cynical bitter documentarist in Roger & Me. He's learned a lot since then, naturally. The scenes with Charlton Heston are devastating. But in his argument that Canada has millions of rifles too, yet Canadians don't have the same magnitude of violent shooting deaths, and is so non-violent that they don't lock their doors, he neglects to mention that in 1989 a gunman went to a university in Montreal and opened fire on students, targeting women, killing 14 before killing himself-- it was called the Montreal Massacre, and is a huge omission in BFC. Leaving this out of BFC is like assessing the US for violent shooting deaths by focusing on rural Vermont, and omitting er, Detroit. It is thoroughly dishonest and manipulative of MM; there is no way anyone who does the barest minimum of journalistic research could overlook that. So I think only he could dare to make this film that dares to examine the roots of violence, but that like the man himself, it is brave, crazy, brilliant, and quite flawed. Still I recommend it highly.My ONION,
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morgana
Knowflake Posts: 920
From:
Registered: Nov 2002
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posted May 29, 2003 06:47 AM
I agree, even for a non-American like me it is obvious that he manipulated the information to get his point across, but I think most of the people who see the film don't go into details, they get the general picture and I believe this was MM's intention.
Nobody really believes that Canada is free of crime committed with guns, or any other country for that matter, unless they are really naive. I did wonder why he focused so much on the Columbine shooting, but I think this was merely an example, again to make a point, and to take an inside look at these sort of violent crimes in US, since the statistics do speak for themselves, it is the country with far most deaths by guns.  IP: Logged |
Venera
Knowflake Posts: 90
From: berlin, germany
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted May 29, 2003 11:49 AM
Hello everyone,nice to see you people have responded to this topic! Thanks Harpyr for your hint about the other Michael Moore topic, I’ve checked it and liked it very much, I’m going to support it soon, too. Unfortunately you’re kind of right about the Israeli/Palestinian solution suggested in the book. A lot of peaceful action took place all over the world against the war in Iraq, actually it happened to be the largest demonstrations known in the history of many European and other countries..and they didn’t change a thing at the course of action of the US Government. they didn’t change a thing but perhaps give (certain) people a sense of the Aquarian Age. This is funny what you say about certain chapters of the book to be red in every high school, my husband mentioned something similar first time we’ve watched "Bowling for Columbine". He said: "As much as "Schindler`s List" belongs to the high school program of nearly every German high school, as much should this movie belong to every high school in USA". He is a German, I’m Slavic, Bulgarian and I thought him so right. Just lovely this guy, Michael Moore, isn’t he? One clearly sees from "SWM" that he’s not always realistic in certain issues and one feels this fury which sometimes seems to overshadow the Moore heart and this child like ,pure love for common people and their so shockingly unfair struggle to make a living or just survive. Yes, I do love Michael Moore, Harpyr, and I hope so do you.
(is it also so darn hot today where you are? here’s just unbearable in berlin. I`ve escaped from 2 hours sunbathing at 30°C with a dizzy head and this humidity’s just killing me  hey, morgana I thought this Cancer thing a long time, too. Fear, panic, determination, that sounded very much Cancer, yeah. But this Lunar personalities are well known to be very good parents, too. And as we know from a long time, USA`s among the total number of 6 countries in the World, who refused to sign the International Convention on Children’s Right. Michael Moore said: " ..we like to continue execute our children at age of 16" That doesn’t sound Cancerian at all…don’t you think?
Hello Lunagirl *wink* I never came to watch "Roger& Me", only heard and red of it, and you are right- I didn’t know about the Montreal Massacre and it was never mentioned in "Bowling for Columbine". Yes, MM is extreme, and he likes Canadians too much, as he said himself. But that’s just a guy who gets too angry over the screaming injustice in our society, that’s all I’m glad you’re so well informed about him.
Hugs and Love to everybody
Much Love
Venera
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Lunargirl
Knowflake Posts: 1513
From:
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted May 29, 2003 01:28 PM
Hi Venera *wink back*,I am Canadian, and we are a documentary-loving-and-producing nation, so the omission appeared huge in the eyes of me and my friends, even though we watched the rest of the film with concern and sorrow. He could have included the Massacre and then also showed that Heidi Rathjen, a survivor, later headed a coalition that succeeded in enacting gun control laws for automatic weapons. <shrug> But despite this flaw, the rest of the film is grimly astonishing. Everybody I know has seen this film, or is being urged to; it's that important. It seems to me that the worst of human evil takes place wherever there is complete denial of the humanity and rights of others. Your husband is also wise. Interestingly enough, Canada is also a Cancer nation: July 1, 1867. I wonder what Mexico's birthday is -- it would be strange if the whole continent was Cancer! To my mind, that's the sign of a builder of a human family. What is Germany's birthday? But back to Michael Moore, while I don't fully approve of his methods, I do support his work and mission. What other film maker has the guts to confront the powers that be? He speaks truth to power, and few people do that. He doesn't need to be a saint. And Roger & Me is sometimes very funny -- if you see it, you'll be watching the background for BFC, as it's the story of MM's home town, Flint, Michigan. 
Lunargirl IP: Logged |
Venera
Knowflake Posts: 90
From: berlin, germany
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted June 22, 2003 05:41 PM
Hey Lunagirl! You still there? It’s been a long time since I’ve posted here and sorry for that. We’ve been away for a couple of weeks, a little vacation + we were invited on a 4-days wedding (!) near Netherlands, and back home there was a lot that had to be done.
Your post is truthful and I liked it very much. It is clever, it is well thought of the matter and it goes deep. It was a pleasure to read it and needless to say, I agree with you. I see why MM likes Canadians Yes, he can’t help sounding a bit like propaganda himself while he’s actually fighting against it. But yes, and oooh, he’s fighting! This is the catchy part about MM for me and I love it! I wanted to ask you if you’ve seen the movie “ City of God” ? We’ve watched it last night at home and although not a documentary, it is still based on a real story. The film equally successful addreses the gun and the discrimination issues as “BFC” does. It is especially aiming at what guns can do in children hands. It is a brilliant, overwhelming movie and I highly recommend it to you, in case you haven’t seen it. I have such feeling that MM likes the movie himself.
Thanks for your respond, Lunagirl and once again sorry for my being so late with the answer.
Much Light and Love to you and to all
VeneraIP: Logged |
anafaery
Knowflake Posts: 864
From: west coast, yummy rain forest, canada
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted June 23, 2003 07:23 AM
i still havent seen this movie and i want to so bad. its on my 'to do' list.i just wanted to mention that i am going to be studying the charts of canada and the usa in the next little while. im gonna do a synastry/ composite too. i have an american husband and im just curious about these things... i have more involvement with the states than many canadians. glad to see you are a compatriot, lunar! what area do you live in? if you arent comfortable sharing your hometown, a province is fine, if you dont mind sharing that. i am innately curious, and i have found that canada is extremely diverse. i would understand you better if i knew what province you live in. i hope you dont think me nosy :P if i find anything really earthshattering ill let you know  did anyone find birthdata for mexico? IP: Logged | |
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