posted June 26, 2003 05:48 PM         

Please Help

posted June 26, 2003 06:05 PM         

I'm in Landmark Education too. I don't clearly understand what the problem is. Your post is vague.

You are welcome to e-mail me at aphrodite@linda-goodman.com. And, we can talk over the phone about this---depending on how serious you are about your friend. I am open to that possibility. I do believe it would make this a lot easier.

posted June 28, 2003 04:17 AM         

My experience with Landmark is limited to one introductory session, and occasional contact with the person who invited me to that session; we keep in touch professionally and I appreciate her ongoing desire to open a door to growth for others. That being said, I have certain problems with the organization, but that's not where I want to get stuck in this post.

What do you mean by your friend having given up on herself? Are you suggesting she's had some kind of brainwashing or cult experience, or is it possible she's experiencing poor judgement? You know your friend best... is it possible she has been empty and looking for herself for many years? I have seen Landmark educators in action, and they are bright, persuasive people, but I don't take them for manipulators... is your friend easily influenced? Do you think she's deluded or out of touch with reality? Addicted to self-help?

One thing Landmark definitely offers is a short pathway to radical change. It can be spiritual or not, depending on the person. It does offer an individual a way to cut quickly through years of conditioning in order to grasp new ideas and change, and grasp for personal and career success. I met people there who courageously radically changed their lives after one weekend workshop. Personally I have questions about the way the organization handles money, and its structure, but as systems for change go, it has merits as large as, say, a radical session on Dr. Phil... the difference being, that Landmark offers and encourages participants to keep taking workshops and become landmark leaders themselves, which demands considerable involvement and committment, and money, actually. It costs a chunk to stay in their system. My eyebrows rise at that one. Mind you -- is it that much different than buying all the Anthony Robbins tapes, or Dr. Phil's books, etc... we take our support and inspiration where we find it, and it usually involves money somewhere.

One positive suggestion would be, attend an introductory session with her (these are different than the weekend intensives-- also, they're free). I found it helpful many years ago to attend a Kingdom Hall meeting with a Jehovah's Witness friend; it'll never be my religion, but at least I could see what kind of community she was embracing and what she was getting out of it.

Another positive suggestion is to keep asking her questions, out of your sincere desire as a friend to _understand_ this transformation she's chosen. I'm sorry if this is way too reductionist of me, but there is a certain similarity between this situation and when a person "gets religion". She obviously values you -- since she seems to only want to be with positive people -- but your friendship is changing rapidly too, I imagine. This is time for you both to assess the way the friendship is changing. A good time for a lot of I-You statements... "when you talk about you new Landmark friends, I feel like I'm losing your friendship" stuff.

Sometimes it's hard to shoot forward when a partner is not interested in the same pathway. I would never throw a good partner away because he didn't have the exact same goals and methods, but some people can't tolerate that, they need the other person to speak their new language. It would be a great shame if she was being blind or judgemental or selfish toward her partner, and thus not very spiritually wise, but is it possible she needs to cut major ties in order to truly find herself? That would be highly spiritually acceptable, in my humble opinion.

Maybe your friend is more narrow in her thinking and heart than you both thought. Or has had to become more narrow in order to break out of old patterns.

Finally, there's always acceptance. You are right to capitalize the word "positive" in your first post. You don't have to be a cheerleader, but you can still be a friend. You may have to mourn the parts of her that are not available to you anymore. Ask her what you can do to support her.

Anyhow, these are some thoughts. I wish you luck.

posted June 28, 2003 03:42 PM         

The University of Virginia's alphabetical list of religions and movements is produced by their Dept. of Sociology, and tries to present balanced information -- including criticisms, where warranted. Landmark is one of them -- they also include Scientology, Christianity, Deepak Chopra, etc. etc. They seem to have done almost everybody and everything! http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/profiles/listalpha.htm

This is their information page about Landmark: http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/est.html

I also found an est-trained psychotherapist's page about the Forum -- he is positive about it but expresses some reservations -- see the Safeguards and Reservations section. Do also read the whole page, he offers interesting opinions based on his experiences. http://www.usefulweb.demon.co.uk/forum/

Knowledge is power! Actually I've bookmarked those pages, too -- they offer much food for thought.

posted June 29, 2003 11:05 AM         

Anafaery -

I also am a cautious person like yourself. You should check out as much as you can about these people -- both pro and con. This was presented to me by my best friend. It was presented to me as the most positive spiritual awakening I would ever be a party to. I was so ready to be a party to the education until I got on the internet and started looking at all the information. Then I started spending more time with my friend than I ever had before. I spoke to her husband at great lengths - up to 3 hours a day for the last 2 weeks. I never realized how enthralled she was with this, because I'm not in the education yet, she really hasn't opened up to me. But as soon as I started using some of the "Buzz" words I found on the internet, she really openend up and began to share. I think it's something everyone needs to be aware of -- BOTH PRO AND CON. That way we all can make up our own mind and judge for ourselves wether this is for us or not.

Again Lunargirl, thank you for reminding me that afterall, it is her decision. The last thing she said to me that scared me so was this, "No matter how many times I tried not to sign up or not continue, they are just so powerful, I can't say no or disagree with them."

posted June 29, 2003 11:45 AM         

i have a real strong feeling about secretive organizations. i just really feel that if they are so great, why can they not be open about their beliefs? in my natal chart are some VERY strong indicators of intuition and a bent for detective work. if the truth is out there, i will most assuredly find it. if not through my gut, than through my dogged and relentless pursuit of the facts. heck my husband KNOWS not to lie to me. it must be hard to have a psychic wife :P

i just really am cautious too because i know that theres a lot of organizations out there that take advantage of hurting people, and before you know it, these people are virtual slaves or broke or whathaveyou. as a person with strong sympathies to the vulnerable people in the world, it behooves me to see anyone abused and dehumanized in such a manner. remember all these sun cult thingys? there was one in montreal where a bunch of the people did a lot of bad things. then there was that heavens gate thing, that left a lot of hurting people in its wake. not to suggest that that is what this org is. i have no idea what it is.

the presumption to take hold of another persons life and use it to your own devices and rob them of their money is anathema to me. ill fight it till the day i die, if i see it in action.

as far as this particular organization, good for you that you have done this looking. you must care about your friend a lot. we should all be so lucky to have a friend like you. i do hope that you find that they are a good organization, and perhaps once the 'glow' is off, she will relax a little and her family and friendships wont be in jeopardy. sometimes when we start believing in something thats a little off the beaten path we withdraw because we feel it is so right for us, and we dont need someone raining on our parade. we get a little defensive, and secretive maybe even. but eventually the pendulum stops the swinging, and when we are confident in a new belief system we kind of go back to our old self. i was like that with astro. hardly anyone in my family believed in it, and instead ridiculed me. so i withdrew.

i learned more about it, and i dont give a crap what they think about it anymore they are the first ones to run to me when they want some answer about a life problem, lol!

posted June 30, 2003 01:39 AM         

I don't know what you mean by A.R.E. -- do you mean the Edgar Cayce association of those initials? I also don't recognize "Mr. Van Auken", I'm afraid, but they sound like people you trust.

quote:

---

Again Lunargirl, thank you for reminding me that afterall, it is her decision. The last thing she said to me that scared me so was this, "No matter how many times I tried not to sign up or not continue, they are just so powerful, I can't say no or disagree with them."

What does that sound like to you?

---

Like she's allowing other people to fill up her emptiness, and not taking responsibility for her choices. How easy is it, truly, to "take away" somebody's choices? How true is it really to say somebody "made" you fall in love with them, "made" you hit them, etcetera? You know, I think if she went to her Landmark group leaders and confessed this way of thinking to them, that they would be concerned too. I don't believe that this organization has the same goal as, say, the Moonies, who act to overwhelm individuals and herd them like sheep (now THERE's an ONION!! My pal Angela, who has children who became Moonies, would be so mad at me -- because her kids are actually very happy in that organization and had been very unhappy beforehand -- who are we to judge -- it's all about perspective).

Speaking of -- here we are, acquaintences, discussing your friend's choices, third-hand. Maybe she was saying that as a statement of pride -- maybe she has needed to feel special and wanted, and needed an involvement with a community to feel renewed, or, wooed. Or, maybe it's true that she has run into some individuals who are rushing her. Certainly there's enlightened self-interest in helping others continue their transformations and education -- for the organization itself, but seriously, also because they care about helping people get the most out of life, and finally, perhaps because once you have tried very hard to help someone along, as a decent human being you remain interested in steering and encouraging them some more. It's an investment, of sorts.

Do you think it's possible your friend had already "given up on herself", or on her dreams, a long time ago, and that this experience has given her so much hope that she's giving what's left of herself away, just to feel alive again?

Starhome, if you think your friend is confused and that something is wrong, then that's painful for you, too. I think the very last positive suggestion I can think of, is that you try to examine your friend's situation and then your own feelings in relation to it. When someone changes radically, it's threatening -- it upsets the balance -- and instead of meeting for coffee, suddenly being with a good friend means total life-reevaluation and drama. You know she's making choices -- do yourself, and her a favour, and check in with yourself, so whatever you do or say, it rings with truth. If you're sad, be sad. If you're frightened, be frightened. First connect with the strong reactions you're having -- then you'll know what to say. And that grounding energy is the basis for all spirituality. Let go, and let god, as the saying goes.

posted June 30, 2003 09:43 AM         

Once again, your words ring so true!

Yes, the A.R.E. is the Cayce Institute Association for Research and Enlightenment. I have been a member for a long time. Nice thing is, I have never been pressured into anything by any of them. Take what I feel I need, leave the rest. I wish I could say the same for my friend.

Mr. Van Auken is the man who responded to my e-mail. Not the same first name but the same last name as the man who a few years ago was heading up many of the expeditions to Egypt. They believe that soon there will be three people who will come to have the insight of the sphynx in order to find the unknown chamber and the Akashic (sp) records. Something I have been following for sometime. Very interesting reading. Hope that doesn't sound too goofy or cult-like itself.

The first time I went to the A.R.E. in Virginia Beach, he spoke, and like you, he is a very wise soul. Out of all the people I have encountered via the Cayce Institution, he most follows the Cayce philosophy and readings. Very spiritual, and not a money grabber. That's not what they are about. As LG attested to in most all her books.

posted June 30, 2003 09:45 AM         

Here I am, having conversations with individuals that are very true and real. Uplifting and helpful. Remindful and thought provoking.

posted June 30, 2003 09:51 AM         

Starhome, I have no idea what you are talking about or what ideas you have constructed about me.

I do not read all of the threads on this website, and in general take very quick scans. This is my first time looking at this thread since I last posted my response to you via e-mail.

And, this is all I have to say regarding this thread. I have offered what I am willing to do for you---considering quite a number of issues of security with my number being out and why I wanted to speak with you voice to voice, and you politely declined.

For which I am completely okay with, and wish you and your friend all the best in your journeys.

And, for the record---I never stated that I wanted to pull you, or anyone else away from ANY discussions. This is a free world and I have no inclinations to limit speech for anyone. I, hold mysELF responsible for all that I say, do, think, commit to and hold the right to create for mysELF the environment I wish to communicate in.

Aphrodite