posted September 23, 2003 05:16 PM         

Like birds, typically, have to be monogamous cause it takes two to raise the chicks... one to gather food, the other to stay and protect...

Now Lions...lol... One male can protect ALL the females and have them all birthing his cubs at once... and they'll still survive and get food and all that...

So I dunno how that applies to humans... but whatever

ALSO, in this class... (It's pretty modern)
They are teaching us that MANY WOMEN are challenging the role of HAVING TO MARRY to live a good life... and MANY are challenging monogamous relationships altogether....

posted September 23, 2003 06:58 PM           

I could've live quite happily and comfortably all my life unattached, and had planned to (so much for life roadmaps ), but I bumped into someone who I love more than I ever thought possible; someone I that I fall into each time I see, who's become my world. And I'm just plain lucky enough to have him feel the same way. I have the luxury of marrying for love, for the opportunity to share a life with an extraordinary person.

I'd say that that's the great legacy, when it's all said and done, of women's lib.

posted September 23, 2003 07:06 PM           

Either way, we're due for a cull... 8 billion of us... thats a really REALLY stupid amount of people.

.

or killer robots.

posted September 23, 2003 08:08 PM           

I do not love superficially, and every time i've fallen for someone it has been very deeply... it's just my bad that it hasn't really worked out to anyones' benefit so far but it's as much as I can do to keep trying.

And while i've never been married.... in my mind every time i have committed, it has been almost the same in my mind at least as I imagine a marriage would be.

It absolutely and utterly kills me every time I lose someone.

But as i've experienced so far and continue to learn, its just a matter of time and while the damage can never be erased it has to have a positive side, otherwise it would have been pointless - and that conclusion sucks! heh.

So how do you respond? I suppose the circumstances dictate what you can and cannot do... sometimes its a mutual decision on both parties to call it a day and go their seperate ways, sometimes its more one-sided... sometimes both hang on to something past its sell-by date...

But gritting your teeth and hoping that feeling will come back is a little....naive maybe? Or are we just so soft, pampered and selfish these days we can't hang on?

The problem arises when you realise that you are two individuals at the end of the day...and you're never sure what the other person may be feeling... their idea of blue might be different to yours, the same way their idea of an emotion may be.

Either way... I can't comment on the long-term shift as the longest i've had is just over 2 years (i'm only ickle!), however i can PROJECT how it would feel...and i'd say it'd be more a maturing of emotions rather than the kind of strip-mining you get when you're younger?

posted September 24, 2003 07:46 AM           

My opinion is marriage works if you make it work. The two of you.

I have been with my partner now for 6 years my longest relationship before this one was 2.5 years.

I think people get so hung up on this love thing that they don't realise what it will actually take to make a marriage work. News flash: it isn't dreamy lovey dovey eyes over red satin sheets every day. In the 6 years Luc and I have been together I have met other guys I am attracted to but have never crossed that line. It's called respect and while I can admire from afar I would never cross that line. We both work at our relationship. We both give, we both take. We have time together and time apart. Its all 50/50. He knows what upsets me because I communicate it, I don't expect him to read my mind and vice versa. I don't spend my time going 'what if' and 'if only'. I have made a commitment to a human being who has a heart and feelings. I respect him and would never intentionally hurt him.

Love is me accepting him for who he is and not restricting his life for what I want. Many of my friends won't let their boyfriends go out without them. WHY?? How can you love someone and restrict them. Let them LIVE and cherish every moment they smile. Above all, make sure it is reciprocated.

I could go on and on but I shall leave it there

------------------
~~Those who bring sunshine to the lives of others cannot keep it from themselves~~

posted September 24, 2003 09:09 AM         

The only thing I would add, RRR, re: girlfriends not letting their boyfriends go out w/o them.......is it restriction, if they agree to it?

You can't use the willing.
You can't restrict he who agrees to be restricted, whether born of insecurity or a desire to control.

posted September 24, 2003 10:21 AM           

For instance, I have a rather active Saturn in Virgo, aspecting, among other things, my 5th House Sun, and I can get pretty dogmatic about monogomy within a committed relationship; Jase's even more active, and in Scorpio, and he's even more so than I am (if possible).

posted September 24, 2003 10:35 AM         

Just meant...that if he agrees to stay, if he agrees to the terms, then, is he really being held back, or is he where he agrees to be? Just offering up food for thought.

There are so many ways to see the world, to see love. Unfortunately, we can't walk a mile in anyone's shoes but our own.

As for me, I have a very active Saturn in Capricorn in the 5th house, aspecting (among other things) my Sun and Venus.

pixelpixie, I wish you well as you work through your relationship.

posted September 24, 2003 01:06 PM         

So according to Covey, Love is a daily act of affirmation. Love is a verb.

I agree. I practice it daily knowing I'm human and I might fail, that's he's human and he might fail, but trusting that we are trying our best and keeping our promises. As RRR mentions, attractions happen, they come and go -- it depends on what you do about them. My partner and I have been together for 6 years, lived together for three. Maybe one day it'll be marriage promises, but that's a whole other kettle of legal fish, and we aren't there. We are where we are, and we are happy. We feel lucky to be in such agreement. We try to live with trust, but without controlling one another, because that kills love.

Somebody once pointed out to me that there's a huge difference between two people holding hands, and three (or more). When there's more than two, the sensation gets diffused, maybe confused. Me, I like the one-one sensation, and so I return the respect and trust and love in kind, with exclusivity.

Call it my CancerMoon-PiscesSaturn trine choice, over my GeminiVenus-AriesMars sextile. I've tried both, and learned early that multiple relationships don't suit my needs, although I know exactly how I could go about it.

I have had the Universe laugh in my face too many times to challenge it with "never" and "always", but I work at keeping the faith with Love.

posted September 25, 2003 12:14 AM           

I guess if you are falling out of love with someone then by all means move on if you need to grow and want a different experience. All I am saying is that marriage can work if you want it to. I think if I ever stopped caring for Luc the way I do now I would move on. However, if we were married then I would work on it and just keep loving him. It's all so complicated.

Trillian - I didn't think you were disrespecting my opinions, if I thought you were I would surely say something (I AM an Aries) Do you think the same about women who stay in violent relationships?? That they must agree with it as they stay with it?

On Monogamy - Ok I have a list of 20 female friends. 7 have genital warts and 5 of those 6 have had to have surgery to remove pre-cancer cells of their cervix (all under 25). 2 have genital herpes. At least half of them have had to have Chlamydia cream as a precaution. 1 has had Pelvic inflammatory disease (or PID). 2 of those girls got the wart virus the first time they had sex. One of the girls who have herpes has never gone without using a condom and has only ever been with 2 guys. She loathes sex now because it hurts every time. Most of those girls experience discomfort and some pain during or after sex. Now if that doesn't make me monogamous I don't know what else will. I will keep on loving it with my current guy..

posted September 25, 2003 09:33 AM         

Do I prefer a monogamous relationship? Absolutely. I love deeply and with abandon, and throw myself totally into my relationships when I am in love. But I can't, and won't, judge what's right for someone else. I don't believe there is a 'right' and 'wrong' way to love, so long as it is done with respect. But then again, there are some people who don't want to be loved with respect...

I think gays have the right to choose to be married. What's "traditional" can be nice, but life is never static, it requires change. If marriage is about love and commitment, and not just about children and raising a family, then why should they be denied?

Yes, RRR, I am sorry to say that I do think some women stay with men who are abusive because they want to. I have seen it time and time again with friends, women who have their own jobs, their own incomes...this is not the 1950's and women don't need to rely on men for their livelihood. I am not making a sweeping statement that encompasses all women who have been abused. But I have watched this many times, verbal and physical abuse, the woman complaining and declaring the relationship over, only to go back again and again and again. One might call it sanction of the victim.

I see the power within you all to love, and to believe that love overcomes all. And I agree.
I'm really not trying to be argumenative.

I wish you all well.

posted September 25, 2003 12:35 PM         

Also another thing, I think woman stay in abusive relationships becuase they somehow still love their husbands, they are masochistic, they think they deserve the pain, the children, fear, or they don't know where else to go. So the women that stay, end up choosing to stay. Which is why it's so difficult to help them.

posted September 25, 2003 12:50 PM         

RRR, they shocked the HELL outta me!
Thank you for reminding me that I ALWAYS need to be watching out for myself!

As for marriage... ALL WOMEN NEED to be self-sufficient and INDEPENDENT!

That way they can marry for true love, not for all the other reasons + "I really "like" him" not love him... ya know?