Author
|
Topic: Do you believe marriage can work?
|
pixelpixie Knowflake Posts: 5301 From: Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 2005
|
posted September 18, 2003 04:05 PM
I am interested in everyone's opinions on this. Do you believe we are designed for a monogamous lifestyle? Are different signs more inclined toward cheating?IP: Logged |
Lunargirl Knowflake Posts: 1513 From: Registered: Mar 2003
|
posted September 18, 2003 04:35 PM
Yes, marriage can work. There's constant proof of that.I think your question is actually about the wisdom or ridiculousness of promising sexual fidelity during marriage until death. That's a choice that has less to do with marriage, than it does to a person making a promise then not keeping it. Maybe it's a foolish promise to make. I don't think I could make it, although my partner and I choose to base our relationship partly on sexual exclusivity and fidelity. IP: Logged |
WychOfAvalon Knowflake Posts: 633 From: Los Angeles Registered: Feb 2003
|
posted September 18, 2003 04:41 PM
well I am married but.. wow.. sometimes... er... I just... UGH... I just find myself looking at other men and..UGH! can't STOP! IP: Logged |
trillian Knowflake Posts: 4050 From: The Boundless Registered: Mar 2003
|
posted September 18, 2003 07:16 PM
pixelpixie...to add to Lunargirl's insights, I think you are also asking if it can work "happily," as in "happily ever after."And oh my but you will find polarized opinions on this! We are all individuals, we have different answers for ourselves. Personally, I think it's difficult, if not impossible, to project so far into the future that I can make a promise like that here and now...I'm not against marriage, or exclusive partnerships, at all. But, I think they take work to maintain...and because we change with time, our preferences can change as well. It's less about failure, than it is about change. On the other hand, some people just like to screw around. ![](http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/wink.gif) I've read your posts, you're an insightful person. I'm not an astrologer, but I don't know that you can pinpoint with certainty any particular sign that is given to 'cheating,' (I'm not fond of that word when it comes to infidelity), though there may be some aspects in an individual's chart that indicate it. ![](http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/smile.gif)
IP: Logged |
N_wEvil unregistered
|
posted September 18, 2003 07:51 PM
Life is not supposed to be a holiday and anything takes effort.The power grid works because people are employed to run it, the computer in your office works because millions of people put in hours to design it so it runs efficiently. Same thing with a relationship. You get one or neither people bothering.. *poof* IP: Logged |
pixelpixie Knowflake Posts: 5301 From: Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 2005
|
posted September 18, 2003 08:01 PM
N_Evil ~ Your answer was sharp and precise. It's funny, because I agree with absolutely everyone's points on this topic. People DO change....... Relationships DO take work...... Being drawn to others happens all the time..... That's why I asked the question, I feel that I need to find a common ground and explore how other's opinions vibrate with me and my life. IP: Logged |
scatbug Knowflake Posts: 82 From: Registered: Jul 2003
|
posted September 22, 2003 02:14 AM
anything worth having is worth working for. its all in what you and your partner make of it and in how you deal with the stresses and teh changesIP: Logged |
Annie Kuzma Knowflake Posts: 416 From: Kettering ,Ohio ,USA Registered: Jan 2003
|
posted September 22, 2003 06:47 AM
I believe the biggest mistakes people make when they get married are...First...They go into it thinking they can "Change" the person they are marrying into what they want them to be. You have to LOVE and accept WHO you are marrying. If not,you both are miserable. Secondly... Women will use the "Sex" card against the man.They are programmed to have sex. They are from MARS!!!hahaha Seriously, once this happens and you find yourself only having sex every couple of months,or longer. Women get into a funk where it gets easier not to, but the Men are still thinking about it every 45 seconds! You should keep that part seperate from daily fights.What better way to get out all your pent up aggressions!! Also,they are much happier, and it only takes 20 minutes, and I can get the trash taken out, the house swept,laundry put away.... Thirdly?..... Keep the past ....there! Don't give explicit details of past indescrections. Noone wants to picture their loved one having sex with someone else. Unless there is a hubby or someone they know about,or medical reasons, keep that in the past. Whatever you did to get to where you are is just what you had to do to get to be the person they love right now. Don't feel guilty. Live and Learn!!! Fourthly??........MONEY IS SHARED!!! It's not your and mine, It is ours!!! Equally share this responsibility, or if a stay at home mom, respect the budget. Ask for what you need, and you will eventually get what you want.Don't fight over money, you are one after marriage, act like it! 5. Check out their parents... if mom and dad are in the state hospital, you may want to rethink this!! ------------------ Peace and Love L.V.X. Annie IP: Logged |
lllog Knowflake Posts: 1142 From: Springfield MO Registered: Jun 2002
|
posted September 22, 2003 07:23 AM
I still believe in marriage, it just didn't take for me, either time. I see no reason to ever get married again, which is not to say, that I don't want a partnership with someone, I do. Its just that marriage is more necessary for when your starting a family. When you get long in the tooth, and neither one wants any more children, I don't think that a written contract is required.I do believe in exclusive sexual relations, it just too dangerious out there any other way. Just my thoughts Lanny IP: Logged |
proxieme unregistered
|
posted September 22, 2003 08:05 AM
PixelP - I think that everyone has to come to their own conclusions on this question. I mean, I was in the middle to watch and occaisionaly be dragged into the crumbling of a marriage - and am still around to feel the continuing shockwaves of the dissolution-, but I still think that an exclusive union can work. Yeah, I think that I've lost what I was going to say. It was something about how, yeah, commitment to another takes work, but that the dividends are deep understanding and trust - the effort put in is compensated by reward and growth (the latter not always being "pleasant" in the normal sense of the word, but immensely fulfilling in the long term). In contrast, a one-night-stand, say, has immediate physical rewards, but there's a reason that many feel emptied of themselves afterwards. Even college students - arguably the most hedonistic people on earth - refer to the exit the next morning as "the walk of shame", and not because they've been bred to be that way; the feeling of profound emptiness (I didn't want to use that word again, but it fits so well) that's experienced when one sleeps with someone not loved, even if that action takes place in the context of a "relationship" (of the hollow "I'm just with you b/c I don't want to be alone" variety), is too deep to be conditioned away. The only remedy that I've found for it is to make love wholly, to share and open yourself completely to another who's doing the same for you - and that kind of extreme vulnerability is made easier in the context of some sort abiding commitment, a promise made that neither you nor your partner will betray the trust of the other. And now I'm rambling. OK, no semblance of coherence is going to come out of me today, so I'll end this now ![](http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/tongue.gif) IP: Logged |
StarlitSky Knowflake Posts: 42 From: Sweden Registered: Sep 2003
|
posted September 22, 2003 08:17 AM
Marriage isn't that big of a business for us. We have lived together for 7 years and our little girl is a year old now. We have a perfect relationship with trust and shared ekonomi and responsabilities. Getting married is just a piece of paper and not to forget a rememberble day, but if the reletionship doesn't work and there is no communication to begin with then the marriage is doomed from the beginning."I don't think either of us is a typical Taurus and a Leo for we have only had three arguments these past 7 years together." Starlit IP: Logged |
proxieme unregistered
|
posted September 22, 2003 10:31 AM
Spinning off of what Annie Kuzma said:Rules That I Learned From My Parents Or: Learning What to Do by Seeing What Not to Do * If at all possible, don't hold grudges & don't go to bed angry. * Air your fears if you need to (better than letting them fester), but don't do so in an accusing way; try your ever-lovin' hardest to convey to them that these are your unfounded fears, but that they eat on you. Ask for their help in addressing them, and be able to know that they'll do the same for you. * Talk, fer chrissakes - no matter how mad or misunderstood you feel at the moment, talk with the other. If you feel yourself getting riled up again, step back and allow yourself to calm down; barring that, take a break. Try your best to see the other's perspective, even if you don't think that you'll agree, and then voice it back to them to see if you've got it right. Hug. A lot. For no apparent reason. *When in an argument, do you best to consistently establish eye contact - it's easier to mentally and emotionally disconnect with someone if you've already done so physically. * Don't ever, ever, EVER resort to calling the other person hurtful names. * Avoid blanket or generalizing statements about behavior like the flippin' plague. * Recognized that your partner's vulnerability to you is as great as yours is to them. * I don't care how busy you are, make time for the other, moving heaven and earth if necessary. Make sure that it's time with your partner...no matter how much time you may expend on activities or priorities that take place *around* your partner, those things on which you have built your relationship will eventually transform or disappear. You'll then be left with a shell without substance, easier to break than you would have ever imagined. * To reiterate an earlier statement, don't use sex as a weapon or as a tool. In a marriage, it's an expression of commitment and a reassurance of an enduring bond (well, among other things) - keep it that way. And if you're not in the mood, just say it - don't use excuses. * Arguments happen, and if you have kids they're most likely going to know that something is up, but DO NOT involve them in the fight. Ever. * Remember why you first fell in love with them while also realizing that people do change and some habits can become grating. Be sure that you love the core of them, not just the trappings. And one, for my own personal use: * I promised myself that I would not marry a man who drinks. I've just seen too much ugliness on that front to bear it in someone else that I love. If my husband (shortly, Jason) were to get addicted to some substance or activity...I would have to separate myself and our children from the situation. I would still love him - and I'd do everything to let him know that that is so - and I would not leave...permanently, but I could not stay there for the time. ed: Heck, I don't even know if I could leave unless it was absolutely necessary. Heh - but, then, what do I know? I'm kinda still a punk kid. IP: Logged |
N_wEvil unregistered
|
posted September 22, 2003 11:00 AM
thanks, Proxy & Annie - i might get them tattoes on the inside of my eyelids! hehehe ![](http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/smile.gif) imo a marriage is just an extension of a relationship if you ask me, its an outward vote on confidence in your strength as a couple... IP: Logged |
proxieme unregistered
|
posted September 22, 2003 03:04 PM
Oh, oh - one more before class (ya think a lot while driving, y'know):* Appreciate kindnesses from your partner. After a while, it's easy to take them and all that they do for you for granted; say, "Thank you." I mean, I know that these are kind of obvious; they just seem urgent to me since I saw them so consistently not practiced. It's so easy for us to get caught up in our lives and just...just let love die. IP: Logged |
Annie Kuzma Knowflake Posts: 416 From: Kettering ,Ohio ,USA Registered: Jan 2003
|
posted September 22, 2003 03:12 PM
Even if you are angry at each other, tell each other you love the other when you are saying goodbye. You never know if that is the last time you will get a chance to.....IP: Logged |
trillian Knowflake Posts: 4050 From: The Boundless Registered: Mar 2003
|
posted September 22, 2003 04:17 PM
I love all these wonderful insights, ways to make marriage/love/partnerships work. Treating each other with kindness just makes sense...but uh oh... here comes the lady with the pragmatic, sometimes a tad cynical Cappy moon to say that it's the ideal we should strive for, but the reality is that we are often simple humans who get caught up in our own dramas, then behave badly and/or selfishly. Unconditional love is the exception, rather than the rule. Hmmm, and don't rules negate unconditional anything?It's been my experience and observation that so many relationships are lopsided. One party loves more than the other, one side does the majority of giving, and giving some more, while the other excels at taking. So while one side is trying to practice all the lovely things outlined by proxie and Annie, I've often seen the other side taking advantage and acting childish/selfish. So many of our relationships are finite, whether friends or lovers. That's no excuse for being cruel or mean in a relationship, I'm just saying that sometimes we become betrothed to a person who might not be 'The One' forever. No matter how far you look into that crystal ball, the future remains uncertain. That being said, I believe in love and its power within us to heal all and fix all. It may wax and wane, but its strength need not be in doubt. ![](http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/love.gif) IP: Logged |
proxieme unregistered
|
posted September 22, 2003 05:50 PM
Yep. Unless both people really try most of the time, it's probably not going to work. That's why we have a divorce rate breaching 50% in this country now; people get too busy or preoccupied and just stop trying, not usually intentionally at first. They realize what's happening after a bit into the process of separating, realize what's going on, and then see that the other, having not gotten any positive reassurance/feedback, has started mentally separating, too. The process feeds off of itself, and I'm convinced that it leads to those situations in which people look up, see a bit of a crisis, and then see that they're no longer married. That's not to say that I couldn't be wrong - I most definitely could be. At all of 23, I'm hardly a sage; this is just what I've looked around and seen so far as I've watched the dissolution of my own parents' marriage, as well as those of the parents of the majority of my childhood friends.There are very many people my age scared to death of marriage for that very reason: they've been through the heart-wrenching torment of seeing their own family split and splintered; and, as a result, I've heard most of them say at one point or another, "If I ever get married, I'm going to be sure...and once I am, I don't care what happens - we're staying married come hell or high water." (Heh, but, then, many of the people that are "my age" have Pluto in Libra ) So, anyway, yeah - we've done a lot of hard thinking about this, as a rule. (And just to make sure that this post has no coherence...geez, I'm tired today...) A kinda-sorta separate issue (meant as a question, not as an arm of an argument): Why do people get into serious relationships, up to and including marriage, with people if they don't love them? I've never understood that. I've seen so many people get into and stay in one simply because, heck - I dunno, they don't have anything else to do or because they're afraid of being alone. Isn't being alone, even lonely, a far better alternative then going through the motions of love without basking in the substance? Or, worse yet, doing that while someone's on the other end trying their hardest, convinced that you really do love them? I mean, (this might be too much info) but I was a virgin until I was 21 for that very reason - no one interested me. I had options (hell, I'm a young woman - I could've gotten laid any time I wanted, if that's all I was going for), but no one struck me as extraordinary. I'm not saying this to say, "Hey, lookit me! This is what *I* did!", but, "If I can do it, any d*mn person can..." And, to be fair, the first time that I had sex was with a friend that I approached b/c, hey, I was just sick of not having sex, and I thought, watching my sisters, that I could deal with emotionless sex (I can't). I was in love (but, to be honest, I was in lust) with the next man...I thought that he felt the same. I was wrong (he was going through the motions). I tried the casually dating, but - wowohwow - to overuse this word some more, it was so darn empty, so I stopped doing it. In the time between that and when I met Jase, I asked one guy out (it didn't work out; I'm obviously glad now). That's it...only one person interested me in anything more than passing; none of the guys who expressed interest in me did a thing for me for more than a week. Rambling now... The point is that I've seen so many people just continue on with these feel-nothing relationships and then wonder why they eventually fizzle. Has anyone else seen the same? IP: Logged |
alchemiest Knowflake Posts: 699 From: Somewhere over the rainbow Registered: Sep 2003
|
posted September 22, 2003 06:11 PM
i suppose you could have polygamous marriages... IP: Logged |
proxieme unregistered
|
posted September 22, 2003 06:24 PM
Some could, I'm sure. Not me.I dunno...I know that there will be people that'll jump to the defense of this practice, but it just seems...hm...it just seems that more hurt than belongs in a relationship would be introduced with this. It seems like an inherintly unstable mix, if that makes any sense, and that - no matter how noble the intentions are - the result wouldn't be kosher. Say all that you will about "cultural subjectivity", but I've heard and read enough anthropological interviews with women in polygamous societies, men in polyandrous ones, and from both in those that practice a really lose definition of marriage, and no matter how ingrained the tradition is there, strong contrary feelings always emerge. More'n that, it just feels wrong to me. (Says the Fish.) IP: Logged |
alchemiest Knowflake Posts: 699 From: Somewhere over the rainbow Registered: Sep 2003
|
posted September 22, 2003 06:32 PM
i know what you mean, but it could always be argued that that is just because of the society that we live in. it is possible to love more than one person at the same time, and being in a polygamous relationship might remove some of the jealousy issues that come about in love triangles (or squares or whatever). just a thoughtIP: Logged |
trillian Knowflake Posts: 4050 From: The Boundless Registered: Mar 2003
|
posted September 22, 2003 07:15 PM
Well prox, just to throw another log on the fire, there are lots of folks who feel it is inherently "wrong" for homosexuals to marry. Personally, I don't. The definition of marriage, to me, isn't static, but defined by those who decide to commit to each other under the big umbrella of "marriage." A marriage of the soul transcends any piece of paper or ceremony. And that any who love each other should be denied such ceremony, is very very sad.I have known people who are very happy to be in polygamous (and by that, I mean more than one mate, not necessarily more than one wife) relationships. Is it for me? Nah, probably not...but I have personally have been in what I'd call 'open' relationships. They were men I loved, or cared for, but I was not in love with them. What we've found is that these things vary from individual to individual. The most important thing is to be happy...and, to be happy for others who have found the one they love, even if their relationships don't fit our own definitions of what they should be. I've known lots of folks, proxie, who also stay in relationships that seem to be over, or destructive, or unloving, whatever. None of us can begin to answer why they stay. I've watched women stay with physically abusive men--this isn't the 1950's, there are many ways to get out of those relationships. These are women with their own incomes, their own lives, and they stay. Why? Because, bottom line, they want to. I have a very attractive friend who is living in Fla.; she called the other day, to tell me her BF just bought her a Jaguar. He's an older man, obviously well off, and he represents financial security to her. It's her typical MO. But she is good and kind to these men, supportive, and they both get something they want. So who am I to say it's screwy? love is love is love is love is love. Anything else is just personal. ![](http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/smile.gif) ![](http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/love.gif) IP: Logged |
trillian Knowflake Posts: 4050 From: The Boundless Registered: Mar 2003
|
posted September 22, 2003 07:18 PM
BTW, proxie, I'm a bit older than you...and, you may be young, but I've always seen you as a wise woman. And you will shine with more wisdom as you grow. ![](http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/smile.gif) Goodness, but there are loads of wise women here, that's why I keep coming back with such regularity! ![](http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/smile.gif) ![](http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/love.gif) IP: Logged |
lioneye68 Knowflake Posts: 6062 From: Canada Registered: Apr 2003
|
posted September 23, 2003 01:09 PM
You know, I think some people are just inherently better equipped to remain in a committed, monogamous relationship for the entirety of their adult life. Other people are just paired up so well, that they couldn't imagine life any other way, or with any other person. Those people are the lucky ones. The rest of us tend to practice serial monogamey, but only because we're searching for that kind of bond. Unfortunately it often takes quite a long period of time to completely evaluate whether you've "hit it" or not. It's sad when you've spent years learning that you're not with the right person, then it takes another number of years to get the courage up to do something about it. Often times, people end up middle aged and single again, for the first time since they were teens. Only now, it's much harder to attract a new mate because most people in your age group are married, or carrying around a bunch of emotional baggage, or just not appealing. Not to mention that one's looks start to go, and it's not like a 50 year old could just walk into a place and take their pick of who they want to get close to. That's the saddest part about the search. You can't get those years back that you wasted on that person who ended up being a dud. That time is lost forever. The trick is to be brutally honest with ourselves, and move on quickly as soon as the realization is there. On the other hand... Some people are just lucky in love while others are not, and that's the simple, sad truth. IP: Logged |
N_wEvil unregistered
|
posted September 23, 2003 01:37 PM
its not like some of us can walk into a bar and have our pick at any age at all! heeheeIP: Logged |
StarLover33 Knowflake Posts: 3061 From: King Arthur's Camelot Registered: Jun 2002
|
posted September 23, 2003 04:30 PM
I'm not afraid to be alone, although I would feel very sad and unfullfilled. I could handle it, becuase I've done so ever since I was a child. I agree a lot with Proxie, maybe becuase we are both Pisces. ![](http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/biggrin.gif) People have said that I'm very strong probably becuase of all the patience I have to endure. I believe there is a good reason for everything and things will work our for the best. I have a confidence that I'll marry and have children someday. Are we all designed to have a monogomous relationships? Yes I believe thats how it was originally, from the intangible sense. Any other way would be empty and meaningless in my eyes. Don't you think our society has become more cynical, and more shallow over relationships? -StarLover IP: Logged | |