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Author
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Topic: Alcohol Survey
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Randall
Webmaster Posts: 25287
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted November 11, 2003 03:06 PM
 
Somewhere there is a verse that states when Jesus was offered food, he said that He received sustenance from a place they know not of. Jesus didn't even have to eat and probably did it just as a social practice.  ------------------
"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark IP: Logged |
pidaua
Knowflake Posts: 7314
From: Schweinfurt to Grafenwoehr all within 6 months LOL
Registered: May 2002
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posted November 11, 2003 03:57 PM
Wasn't that during the temptation in the desert though? I am pretty sure that it was, but I would have to look it up again.If Jesus didn't need to eat, then it counters the belief that he was made human to be sacrificed. If we believe that he was incarnate by the Holy Spirit and made man, then we must believe he lived as a man, as a human and therefore did what humans did. Since he was raised in a human family, by Mary and Joseph, they would have fed him because I would theorize if he did not eat, drink or eliminate, he would not be human and they would have put him to death as a child or young adult thinking he was some kind of demon. Thoughts? Those of you who do not believe shouldn't answer only because it wouldn't make sense to do so. Basically saying "The Bible doesn't exist" really doesn't count in this new discussion. LOL...sorry, I am not trying to be offensive. IP: Logged |
trillian
Knowflake Posts: 4050
From: The Boundless
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted November 11, 2003 04:14 PM
Well Pid,  , I would argue that not accepting Christianity as your faith-system is not the same as believing, or not believing, in the existance of the Bible. It does indeed exist...but what it represents is different for different people. I believe Jesus did exist, and existed as a man. I believe that the Bible that exists today is not the original Bible. I believe it was written by men. I do not personally subscribe to any religion, though I consider myself a spiritual person who respects the beliefs of others. There are some fascinating books that chronicle Jesus' 'hidden' years, his travels, etc. Are they true? How does one ever know? Belief itself can be considered suspended truth. And I do not mean that to insult anyone, or his/her faith. IP: Logged |
PlayfulPonderingFishMoon
Knowflake Posts: 267
From:
Registered: Sep 2003
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posted November 11, 2003 04:27 PM
Trillian,You and I are on the EXACT same page about spirituality, Christianity, and the Bible in this discussion. Your sentiments are my own as well all the way down the line. I don't subscribe to any specific religious path or belief system right now either, but if I WERE going to choose ONE at this precise moment, I personally would actually consider myself a Wiccan at this moment, I guess. THANKS to EVERYONE here who has responded to my original inquiry about alcohol! If anyone else who hasn't replied yet wants to add their own thoughts into it, I'd still love to hear those ideas too. It is really so great for me to read all of the different responses to this topic. IP: Logged |
PlayfulPonderingFishMoon
Knowflake Posts: 267
From:
Registered: Sep 2003
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posted November 11, 2003 04:32 PM
PS to Pid or anyone else,I just want to echo trillian's words about not meaning to be disrespectful to anyone's faith here, whatever that faith happens to be, whether that faith is of a Christian path or not. I like to think that I am always respectful of everyone else's beliefs too, so I certainly don't mean to come across as being rude in any way by saying what my thoughts about the bible are in this forum.
Thanks again for all the responses!
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theFajita3
Knowflake Posts: 1457
From: Sunny South Florida, USA
Registered: Feb 2003
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posted November 11, 2003 07:55 PM
Haha Aphrodite  WOW...I can't beleive someone actually thought I was inferring alcohol should be outlawed. Just because it causes fatalities, well so do cars, but I don't think they should be outlawed. For goodness sakes I love to drink and would brew my own if it were outlawed, I guarantee that. I like the taste, the smell, the effect....I'll stop there. Obviously some people use and some people abuse, I was objective and trying to keep my affection for the liquid out, Nackie if you think I have anything against alcohol you are incorrect! I have a taurus moon too ------------------
Namaste! IP: Logged |
trillian
Knowflake Posts: 4050
From: The Boundless
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted November 11, 2003 08:37 PM
PlayfulPonderingFishMoon, always nice to meet a kindred spirit! Though I have to add that I consider Pid, Aphrodite, Proxie, Fajita, Randall, StarLover and all the other lovely people here who like to exchange ideas and ideals with grace and respect, also to be my kindred spirits. Oh, Nackie, it's my understanding that absinthe is outlawed in the US not because it's poisonous, but because it was regarded as a hallucinogenic! That's how it earned its nickname "the green fairy." I'm not sure there's any actual proof of this...probably it was just drunk to the point of abuse.
If memory serves, it was one of the favored drinks of one of my favorite artists, Toulouse Lautrec. Light and Love to all...
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StarLover33
Knowflake Posts: 3061
From: King Arthur's Camelot
Registered: Jun 2002
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posted November 11, 2003 09:03 PM
The real Bible should be the size of a gigantic library not an actual book. What we consider the Bible is not even half of what it used to be. To me the Bible is a history book. It contains the past and the future of mankind. This is what I agree with: Drinking alcohol is like playing with fire, you are going to get burned no matter how careful you think you are! When you lose your senses you have to depend on others, and if your lucky your very own "pupeteer" will save you, as he/she always does. But will that pupeteer do it next time? I don't know, that is for you to decide. There is no problem with sipping wine here and there to relax, but there is a problem when you're drunk.
-StarLover
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Harpyr
Knowflake Posts: 2255
From: land of the midnight sun
Registered: Dec 2002
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posted November 11, 2003 09:07 PM
boy, so many interesting topics in one thread!
I also enjoy the occasional glass of red wine. I adore a good Merlot!  Now, years ago.. when I turned of drinking age- before I had my son, I went out to bars just about every night for an excessive amount of time and was well on my way to developing a drinking habit, I think. It was a nasty cycle that began perpetuating itself.. Go out..drink too much wake up with a hangover and then discover the best way to get rid of it is to have a beer. Baaaaad news. What saved me was getting pregnant. That cleaned up my act overnight! I was lucky that I'd only been developing that destructive habit for about a year, so quitting wasn't too hard.
I have alot of relatives who are alcoholics so I know what it can do to a person. Fajita, what you said about commercials struck a chord with me because of that. I don't think alcohol should be illegal but I don't think there should be commercials for it on t.v. I don't see that need. If the average social drinker wants to drink, they aren't going to go because they saw a commercial or not go because they didn't see a commercial..those things are obviously marketed to tempt people who otherwise would avoid the stuff.
Hopefully we'll see those banned they way they banned cigarette commercials.Now, absinthe..I haven't tried it ever but I think it's considered a hallucinagenic because the effects really are similar to such things, even without drinking an abusive amount of it. I have a friend who tried the stuff and he said that he could see why it is considered a drug.
Jesus what a hippy right?  No seriously..I do believe that he existed as an extraordinarily enlightened and evolved human being. I recently bought a Bible because I'm curious to get the story straight from the source. I have so many debates with relatives who think I'm a kook and devil worshipper because I call myself a witch. I haven't gotten through the old testament..skipped ahead to the new to read about the man himself. I really liked the part where he drove the moneylenders out of the temple..  But I'd be curious if anyone were to point out anything about him being a vegetarian? Seems unlikely considering the times he lived in but hey, so does turning water into wine and I believe that!
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theFajita3
Knowflake Posts: 1457
From: Sunny South Florida, USA
Registered: Feb 2003
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posted November 11, 2003 10:56 PM
Good point Harpyr It is my understanding absinthe is considered a hallucinogenic and that is why it was so favored, the visions.... ------------------
Namaste! IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 25287
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted November 12, 2003 03:19 AM
Ah, but Jesus was quite human (although without sin), and He said Himself that everything He did, we could do likewise, so that would include some very miraculous things. He was not the only human to go for extremely long periods of time with little or no food (breatharianism).  Having worked in a bar before, I can honestly say that it isn't good to lose one's senses to alcohol. I've seen people leave with people they would never have done so otherwise, including two that ended in robbery and murder.  ------------------
"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark IP: Logged |
firestar
Knowflake Posts: 118
From: San Diego, CA
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted November 12, 2003 04:09 AM
I used to party...always felt like crap the next day. I had a Grandmother who was a closet alcoholic and died of stomache cancer at 54. Her daughter, my Aunt, is unfortunately following her footsteps, but is definately NOT in the closet. I think that alcohol is far more dangerous than some of the drugs that are illegal. I am glad that they are doing things like setting up road blocks and charging other contributing parties when another leaves somewhere DUI and kills someone else.
We all need to be protected as much as we possibly can from those who make the choice to put everyone in jeopardy. I think that drugs and drinking are a personal choice. I have to say, however that I have had the opportunity to try a variety of things and NOTHING I have tried even comes close to the effects of alcohol.
fish..could you email me, please?
firestar@cox.net
thanks
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Nackie
Knowflake Posts: 561
From: Germany
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted November 12, 2003 06:37 AM
Side note for those interested in Absinthe (never really gave it much thought, but it's interesting!)"[Q]uality absinthe, properly distilled, does have a different effect over and above the results of alcohol, though at up to 70%, the effects of the alcohol alone can be considerable. Absinthe's effects, despite popular conception, are not due to the wormwood (Artemisia Absinthia) alone. Absinthe's constituents consist of a very delicate balance of various herbs, most of which contribute in one way or another to its intoxicating effects. [Chemist and absinthe expert] Ted Breaux once explained it that it is a push-me, pull-you effect of the various herbs, as some are of an heightening effect, and others are lowering. The effect on the individual is subjective, and can best be described as a kind of heightened clarity of mind and vision, mildly ponderous and sparkling, and warmed by the effect of the alcohol. This seems to wear off after 20 or 30 minutes, leaving one with an alcohol buzz. 2-3 glasses seems to do the trick. More than that, depending on the proof of the alcohol, will just make you very drunk.
But saying all that, 'secondary effects' seem to be quite subjective. Some have never felt them at all. Some say one brand works for them, others another. Many absintheurs ... have placed absinthe's 'effects' low on their priority list when it comes to judging modern commercial absinthes, preferring to focus on actual herbal constituents, manufacture and historical detail. When considering why the temperance groups were so keen to ban absinthe in the last century, one must also consider the contribution of the high alcohol content to "absinthism", as well as the flood of cheap and adulterated products in the market at its heyday (many unscrupulous absinthe manufacturers added toxic chemicals to the brew to achieve the green color and the "clouding" effect when the water is added, both of which came from wholly natural and herbal sources in proper absinthe). When someone consumes 20 or more glasses a day of a 120-150 proof alcoholic beverage (which were possibly contaminated with toxic metals as well), it can tend to have a deleterious effect on them." It doesn't make you hallucinate, it just very much intoxicates you....lol Like I said, drink a bottle, and it's not the absinthe that kills you, but the alcohol. At 70% alcohol, thats 140 Proof...have fun! @Fajita, I wasn't picking on you, either, not on anyone here lol Please let your generous taurus moon forgive me, if I offended you!  Nackie IP: Logged |
Harpyr
Knowflake Posts: 2255
From: land of the midnight sun
Registered: Dec 2002
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posted November 12, 2003 11:17 AM
Thank you for the info, Nackie. I never knew all that much about the stuff but it seemed interesting even if only because I really like the way the name sounds.
A b s y n t h e
It just sounds mystical to me.  IP: Logged |
pidaua
Knowflake Posts: 7314
From: Schweinfurt to Grafenwoehr all within 6 months LOL
Registered: May 2002
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posted November 12, 2003 12:30 PM
I think some people took what I said out of context. What I meant was that if a person does not believe in Jesus then they don't have to answer, because the point is moot. It would be like a Christian stating what a pagan should believe in. It's also like someone asking an astrologer what an aspect means and an astronomer pipes in, well it's immaterial because astrology is bogus. Therefore their point does not factor into the equation. What I meant was: If someone does believe that Christ was made human by the Holy Spirit, wouldn't they expect that he would function, in a bodily manner, as a human? In Luke, which is one of the only Gospels that really details Christ as a child, it is stated that at 12years of age, while attending and enjoying a feast, Jesus was left behind by his parents on accident. They had to travel back and Mary was pretty upset. (Luke was the type to interview everyone to determine what happened LOL). In another chapter, we see Jesus leaving with Levi to partake in a large dinner celebration. The pharisees (sp) were so angry that he would actually eat at a taxmans table thinking he should hanging with a more righteous crew. In those times, they also had vegetarians and people that abstained from one form of food or another. I am not really into using the Bible to justify a form of eating in any manner. Whether someone feels compelled to say 'God would never want us to eat meat' therefore insinuating that they have some authority on what God would or wouldn't do or when someone states 'God wants all people to eat meat or they will go to hell". Either way, it is like trillian said, would any God or Goddess not want us to partake in what the is provided / created here on earth on the form of sustinance? IP: Logged |
Harpyr
Knowflake Posts: 2255
From: land of the midnight sun
Registered: Dec 2002
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posted November 12, 2003 01:11 PM
quote:
Either way, it is like trillian said, would any God or Goddess not want us to partake in what the is provided / created here on earth on the form of sustinance?
I'm in total aggreeance. My only qualm is that people don't respect what they eat. Heck, most of the time I'd wager that they don't even know know where the food they eat comes from! I see this as a big problem. I don't consume commercially produced meat- not because I think eating meat is wrong- but because I think that if you eat a creature that spent most, if not all of it's life suffering and dying in agony then it's like you are eating that suffering. Energetically it's imbued in the meat.
Esoterically speaking I think that may have been why native cultures around the world customarily gave thanks to the hunted creatures and honored them with ritual.IP: Logged |
pidaua
Knowflake Posts: 7314
From: Schweinfurt to Grafenwoehr all within 6 months LOL
Registered: May 2002
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posted November 12, 2003 02:13 PM
Harpyr, That is a good way to think about it. I don't know that I have ever really looked at meat like that, but maybe in a sense. I mean, the beef I eat can only be certified Angus, because I know the group that produces that meat and how well that group take care of their cattle. In the same respect, I won't eat select or unmarked beef because the life they lead is rough from calving to slaughter. I agree that most people don't care about what they eat or how it got there. My guy is a calf raiser and hunter. He puts a lot of time and effort into raising those calves and making sure they have good ground to graze. As far as hunting, he feels like I do, that you can only take what you will eat and not let anything go to waste. I think he enjoys hunting purly for the fresh air because in all the years he has been going he still has not caught anything LOL.... He finds a spiritual connection to the earth when he is out there and loves the mountains, just like me...no wonder I love him so much. LOL IP: Logged |
StarLover33
Knowflake Posts: 3061
From: King Arthur's Camelot
Registered: Jun 2002
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posted November 12, 2003 03:01 PM
This reminds me of a history lecture on the "Meat Inspection Act." Teddy Roosevelt threw up his sausage after reading The Jungle, by Upton Sinclair who wrote about a man who fell inside a slaughter machine. However, the book is fictional but it describes the horrors of the meat packing industry during their day. Many workers would get their fingers and hands cut off by accidents, and sometimes it would fall into the grinding of the meat. BTW, Teddy Roosevelt is one of my favorite presidents. -StarLover IP: Logged |
pidaua
Knowflake Posts: 7314
From: Schweinfurt to Grafenwoehr all within 6 months LOL
Registered: May 2002
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posted November 12, 2003 03:07 PM
ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.......I know people that have little sausage like fingers, but I would never want to know what the sausage tastes like with the addition of their fingers. LOL.....once again...ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww IP: Logged |
Harpyr
Knowflake Posts: 2255
From: land of the midnight sun
Registered: Dec 2002
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posted November 12, 2003 03:33 PM
another reason I am glad I don't eat commercial meat. (though I do looove a good moose burger)
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theFajita3
Knowflake Posts: 1457
From: Sunny South Florida, USA
Registered: Feb 2003
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posted November 12, 2003 10:32 PM
Oh Nackie aren't we blessed to have taurus moons I think so! ------------------
Namaste! IP: Logged |
pixelpixie
Knowflake Posts: 5301
From: Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted November 12, 2003 11:16 PM
quote:
I believe Jesus did exist, and existed as a man. I believe that the Bible that exists today is not the original Bible. I believe it was written by men. I do not personally subscribe to any religion, though I consider myself a spiritual person who respects the beliefs of others.
~ Trillian
That pretty much sums up how I feel about this interesting topic. With my own twists of course, but granted, it'll be alot longer if I go on......
I have recently 'taken up' drinking. I hadn't allowed myself to lose control for a long time... and I have seen what alcohol can do to people. But it is not all negative.... I think what is MORE negative, is the fear.... not allowing yourself permission to just let go every once and a while. Spirituality is a diversion, albeit a high one, everything that gives us a deep feeling and takes us beyond our comfort level, or expands our borders is mind altering. Alcohol/recreational drugs have been here forever. They were invented or created for a reason. Some people choose to abuse that reason, others just enjoy.
I am finally learning to enjoy, and I am so glad I have opened myself up a bit more. There is a duality to all things, if a reed is to rigid, it will snap in the wind..... you have to be adaptable and bending. That is a Taoist principle, and it shows a universal truth. It is nature's way to fill an empty glass, and to take some from an overflowing one. I guess it is all about your person. I had to defend my non-drinking all the time. Now I can simply say, yes, I'd love a drink. I don't need three or ten, I just needed to let my inner self get a little silly. And it feels good!IP: Logged |
theFajita3
Knowflake Posts: 1457
From: Sunny South Florida, USA
Registered: Feb 2003
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posted November 13, 2003 12:23 AM
I like that pixie!------------------
Namaste! IP: Logged |
Nackie
Knowflake Posts: 561
From: Germany
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted November 13, 2003 05:03 AM
@Fajitawhat house is your moon in? Sometimes I HATE my taurus moon lol....I like to wine and dine too much because of it...and keeping my weight down because of it is such a hassle and a constant fight against my two halves (I'm a gem...) Having a water ASC doesn't do much by way of helping either! lol Nackie IP: Logged |
trillian
Knowflake Posts: 4050
From: The Boundless
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted November 13, 2003 09:26 AM
Well said, pixelpixie, IMO!I have the Yin/Yang symbol tattooed on my ankle, not because it became so trendy, but because it is the closest thing I have to a life philosophy. In light there is darkness, in darkness there is light. Both MUST exist, to create the balance of life. They not only co-exist, they are each a part of the other. There are no absolutes in life. And this is my motto, I should probably have it tattooed on my butt: Change your perspective, and you change the world. ('cause you're sure as hell not gonna change anyone else!  ) Love ya all lots!
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