posted December 15, 2003 06:48 PM         

Let's see, is Vegas a Leo town Well, from a Leo man's perspective, there's lots of beautiful women, bright lights and the party never stops----sounds like my kind of town Yeah, sure, go for the big jackpot. That kind of money could buy you a real nice cattle/horse ranch in Texas. Did I mention I'm a Realtor? LOL

posted December 15, 2003 09:35 PM         

What I was trying to say without being offensive was, yes, he was a 'bad' person by the standards of our society. Yes, ok, he's been taken out, that's wonderful etc. But, at the same time, one has to consider that the reason we went into Iraq in the first place was to dismantle 'weapons of mass destruction'. What we later found out to be NONEXISTENT weapons of mass destruction. I guess human rights violations occured in Iraq. I lived there from 1993 to 1995. It wasn't the best of places, but it wasn't the worst- especially compared to some other middle-eastern countries. Anyway, the point is, we didn't go in there because he was committing human rights violations. We went in because we thought he had weapons of mass destruction. Turns out he didn't. Ergo, not guilty.
If we want to arrest the leaders of all the countries that commit HRV, then we have a right to punish him. Fact is, we don't want to go after a lot of countries responsible for HRV because we are buddy-buddy with them or need them for something, and since this is the case, we are not justified in prosecuting Hussein.

posted December 15, 2003 11:34 PM         

By feeling that Saddam's public humilation was horrible, is saying that you do NOT believe in freedom. Don't you understand, that the world had to see him like that, so that the poor, terrified Iraqi's could get on with their lives. Or would you rather they continue to live in abject terror? How would you like to live that way? It is easy to expound from the comfort of your warm home, sitting in front of you computer, while the people of Iraq continue to suffer at the hands of this MONSTER!!!!

Perhaps, you need to live there and experience, first hand, the nightmare...and then proceed to expound with your pro-Saddam garbage.

posted December 16, 2003 02:40 AM         

I agree with you Jazz about the other millions of people that live in oppression all over the world, BUT your initial post was regarding Iraq. That was why I responded as such. I think dictatorships are a horrible thing and at no point did I EVER assume that Iraq would live in 100% US type freedom.....the religious beliefs and the traditions of that country would NEVER lend itself to our style of FREEDOM, but those people can still live without terror. To say that I have not been to other countries is a foolish statement, because I have traveled extensively.....including to dictator-stricken countries. I have been involved in humanitarian aid to Cuba.....where I allowed my boat to be used to carry medical supplies and food to those people on numerous ocassions. Don't you think it is heart wrenching to see people forming mobs for baby diapers, baby food, vitamins, antiobiotics, that are being unloaded from your boat? Living under a dictatorship is an ugly thing.

I have also been a part of rescue health care team, deployed to South American countries, providing free surgery, free medication, free xrays, free dental care, etc. We do this yearly and spend our own money for food and travel....we stay for 10 days and treat patients 24hrs a day...we rotate 12hr shifts....all for free...no monetary compensation. We also gather clothes, non-perishable food stuffs, feminine hygiene products, diapers, baby formula, baby food, medicines, twice a year and send all this to remote areas. This is our little piece of love and compassion, shared with the less fortunate.

I think that we rushed into war, with ill concieved notions, but now that we are there, we must help these people live without terror. To sit and slam the war efforts, is too late. We must send positive energy to the people of that nation.

P.S. Alchem....it's not over yet, so don't be too hasty in stating that there are no weapons of mass destruction. Perhaps, Saddam or one of his sons, shot off their mouths in bragging about having them and that's what started this whole mess. None of us will ever know the complete truth. It is all speculation, until proven otherwise.

posted December 16, 2003 09:21 AM         

If we did indeed invade Iraq to free the Iraqis, we made a big mistake. We need to get into North Korea or China. Much greater problems there. Hmmm. Gosh, I wonder if N. Korea has weapons of mass destruction? And we couldn't even get China off the Most Favored Nations List. The plutocracy our nation is fast becoming just wouldn't have it. Nah, we would rather "engage" them. After all, that worked so very well in South Africa.

I found the televised lice-inspection in bad taste, to put it mildly. I thought we were better than that. I'm not an international law expert but doesn't that violate the Geneva Convention? And if we can toss aside the Law when we see fit, why can't Sadaam?

As for better conditions in Iraq, lifting the decade long UN led sanctions (American sanctions really as we forced the issue)is the real reason behind many of the "improvements" the media has so desperatly pointed out.

"monster, murderer, thief, liar" Sadly, I think that might refer to either Sadaam OR George.

posted December 16, 2003 09:44 AM         

The people in North America seem so brainwashed to me (I include many of my fellow Canadians here, unfortunately).

Yes, he's a murderer. Yes, it's better he's gone. But by G*d there are just as bad people out there right now, who enjoy US protection, as did Saddam once. Just look to Israel, Pakistan etc...

Don't kid yourselves, the war was never about WOMD, it was, and is, about oil and money.

And I don't know what you guys back home are seeing on CNN, but I keep hearing about the Iraqis who are desperately against the US invasion and are even more desperatly against the control by the US and allied forces.

So glad you all find it so amusing.

By the way, I don't believe a minute of it. I'm just not sure if it's Saddams or the US's attempt to gain space and/or favour.

posted December 16, 2003 09:49 PM         

However, he is currently a POW, and as such he is afforded certain rights under the Third Geneva Convention. At some point in time, his status will likely change to that of "war criminal."

Geneva rules state "no physical or mental torture nor any other form of coercion may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatsoever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted or exposed to any unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind." Further, "prisoners of war are entitled in all circumstances to respect for their persons and their honor."

Truly some enlightened people who came up with those rules.

posted December 17, 2003 12:52 AM         

Saddam wasn't paraded anywhere. Prisoners in custody were brought in to make a positive identification.

His picture was shown to prove to Iraqi citizens that he really had been captured. Most of those citizens said they wouldn't believe it unless they saw the pictures, after being brutalized for more than 30 years by the murderous Hussein family.

Not one of those or any other actions surrounding the treatment of Saddam Hussein violate any International conventions. Saddam is not a POW. He is being treated with all the protections afforded POW's but is not classified that way.

It is encouraging that some of you have managed to find your compassion for the oppressed. That compassion seemed to be lacking when Saddam was gassing the Iranians, gassing his own citizens, raping, torturing and murdering his own citizens and invading Kuwait. It also seemed to be and still is missing for the 1,000,000 citizens of North Korea that little ba*tard Kim Jong-il has systematically starved and murdered.

How can I tell? Well, you haven't been seen or heard protesting outside the UN, outside the Iraqi embassy, outside the embassy of any other murderous regime or anyplace else, including here. You seem to save your bilge and bile for the United States and the President. There's a phrase that fits those of you with selective compassion, "self righteous hypocrites" with a political agenda. Yeah, that's it.

posted December 17, 2003 10:37 AM         

Laughter is good medicine; it has the ability to chase away fear,insecurities and instill eternal hope in a greater tomorrow.

There wasn`t any laws,treaties, moral or ethical violations. A medical inspection period. We`ve seen them before on our own pow`s and goverment officials... He reduced himself to the disheveled, ill looking and probable harborer of parasites. If there was any humilation, it was self induced. Yes, that is sad, I agree!! Sad that his divine lite went out and he groveled/reveled in his carnal nature. Only sadder is the people he took with him, as companions and victims. For that divine lite burnt out, I cry; for the carnal being called Saddam, I laugh. It keeps me from crying.

juniperb

posted December 17, 2003 12:58 PM         

Hey, the MEDIA is the entity that broadcast the Cootie Inspection. The government did not hold a gun to their collective heads and say "Broadcast this or else be shut down".

We will be going after the other losers: i.e. the N. Korean Midget and the Chinese, but right now the threat from the mideast is more imminent than the other. The Midget isn't going anywhere nor is he stupid enough to use a nuclear weapon. It's a game he plays to see what the US will give him NOT to threaten us.

I think it is a sad thing when we can sit back and complain about the treatment of Saddam but not say a thing about the millions of lives he destroyed. Are these the same people that stand by and watch a crime because they don't want to use violence against the perp? Has society become so lax that we now worry so much about the comfort of the criminal that we turn out eye to the pain of the victim?

It is an outrage that we promote these kinds of things. What is worse is that the US loses no matter what we do. Do we stand by and watch millions of people starve and get executed, only to hear our citizens say "Put a stop to this, we have to help the oppressed". Or do we get involved because we care about those people but still have to listen to the 1% of the population that states "Oh big bad US who do you think you are, throwing a murderer out of office, arresting him for killing and torturing people? You should let him stay in power and let the poor, scared, oppressed people take care of him by voting him out of power in a democratic election" (Which doesn't exist).

But hey, those people must sleep better at night with the screams of the victims so that the criminal is spared.

posted December 17, 2003 01:57 PM         

anyhow, what is done is done, I hope all will unfold in a better perspective.

posted December 17, 2003 02:52 PM         

Your comments are divorced from reality.

To set the record straight, the invasion of Iraq was authorized by a 15-0 vote of the UN Security Council, Resolution 1441 which encompassed all the other 16 or 17 Resolutions regarding Iraq, WMD and inspections, among other things.

The self righteous whining and moaning about a taped physical exam for Saddam is just a symptom of what's wrong with a whole group of people who cannot prevail at the ballot box but want to direct American Foreign and Domestic Policy.

The President of the United States does not need the approval or cooperation of the UN or any other nation to implement security policy for the United States. That duty falls on his shoulders as the "Commander in Chief" and no other.

The rest of your post is laughable. Neither 300,000 American troops or 800,000 Iraqis died as a result of the invasion of Iraq. Neither is Saddam dead though he and his murderous regime which killed about 10% of the Iraqi population over the years is finished.

Neither can intellectual discussions be had with individuals whose arguments are so intellectually dishonest and unreasonable that they must be dismissed out of hand by any reasonable person.

Your arguments have nothing to do with compassion, enlightenment, justice, honor, equity or law. They are purely political from the "I hate Bush" end of the political spectrum and any attempt on your part to disguise your motives as enlightened compassion is intellectual dishonesty personified.