posted June 02, 2004 06:41 PM           

I mean, if they say, "Yes, dat's me," they sound conceited or like they think that they're "better" than other people on the site.

posted June 02, 2004 07:06 PM         

Each knowflake has ideas, lives and thoughts to share. Much as Linda did. She talked about her family, events, wishs and deeds. Thats what we do here. A loving community to feel free to discuss what`s on our minds. What you take from it is your responsibility and shouldn`t be frowned on if it doesn`t fit your expectations.

As Trillian would say, it`s the Yin and Yang of life. A give and take of the positive with the negative. It all balances out and Lindaland thrives on the net and in our hearts.

I sincerely hope you can find the joy here so many of us do

juniperb

posted June 02, 2004 08:02 PM         

Paras, don't be discouraged. As juni said,our expectations often leave us wondering what happened. But the problem may lie in our expectations.

And our paths are only as lonely as we want them to be.

LL is filled with many unique energies, many of whom I deeply care for. Some I don't know so well. Some have opinions that don't resonate with me, but I respect and admire their intelligence. Now and then someone comes along who really turns me off; I stay away from them.

Life really is a balance. "Negativity" seeps in because it must, to balance all things.

Honestly, I don't see what's so bad about getting drunk or laid. Being advanced spiritually, in my book, would include accepting that we are human and have human needs in addition to our spiritual ones.
I don't see this age as any more 'amoral' than those before it. I don't see it as amoral at all.

I see life unfolding, and embrace as much of it as I can.

I hope you stick around and get to know us. There's a pretty awesome bunch of people here. And we in turn will have a chance to get to know you.

posted June 02, 2004 09:04 PM         

We are all the same here at Lindaland in that we are all just doing our best to find our way in this uni-verse. We are only human and we must be gentle with oursELVES, for it is not always easy. Some of us may quibble over details or need to delve into the mundane details of our lives but I believe that all of us here at this site are united in that we are making good faith efforts to walk with love and light in our hearts in the best way each of us knows how.

I hope you stay. It helps to let go of some of those expectations and appreciate Lindaland for the beauty that abounds here despite our differences. I speak from personal experience on that one.

posted June 02, 2004 11:38 PM         

May I point something out, without you taking it too badly? You seem so much less judgemental in this string than when discussing politics.

And you seem to be telling me not to be so judgemental either. Ah, but this is the curse of my life! I was born to discern, to judge if you will, to weigh and weigh and weigh. I put a lot of effort into discerning/judging what I should believe in. Nothing matters more to me. What else lasts besides our eternal Spirits? Even an immortal will someday give up the body, and then be nothing but the accumulated mass of his thoughts, feelings, ideas, and beliefs. So I see the process of choosing my beliefs as literally creating myS-elf.

'Drunk' and 'laid' are two very, very touchy subjects for me. I have more experience with more people who like to drink than anyone should, and they are never pleasant or positive. Alcohol puts the Spirit to sleep, and leaves the base animal body completely in charge. Even those I have liked very much have done awful things under its influence. No one can sell me on the idea that alcohol is a good thing, not a drop or bottle. And I believe that sex without love is spiritually negligent, and negative. A human being is a two-part thing, and I really see the body as the vehicle for the soul. Do we let our other vehicles make decisions for us? No, and neither should we let the body. This is something Linda was very specific about, and I have never disagreed with her in the slightest.

It really pains me to do this, but I have to disagree with one of you directly. One of you made a statement that just digs at me, like a splinter in my eye, and nothing that I am will let it go. Trillian, those are not needs.

All in all, though, I expected more anger in your replies. I am actually quite impressed. This has set me thinking, for I am so unused to the unexpected. Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts with me.

And as far as expectations go, mine are high, especially of myself. If you could see the ruthless pragmatism with which I admit my own shortcomings and failures to myself, you would realize that my 'judgements' of others are quite kind by comparison. No other tool seems more useful for spiritual advancement than the willingness to admit to the least desirable parts of oneself. In short, I can't fix what I refuse to see is broken. Ego is the enemy. But so few take this view, instead preferring the security of saying "I'm fine just the way I am." Well, if that was so, this would already be a perfect world. Do any of you understand this, do any of you agree?

posted June 03, 2004 12:16 AM         

I would dare say Jesus thought less of the ego judging the splinter in our brother/sisters spiritual eye vs. the sexual/ imbibing traits of the physical.

Who can k-nowingly say Jesus did not have sex or imbibe? We can say he despised judgemental egos tho

Surprised at the answers you say? Seems a little birdie whispered G.U. wasn`t the best place to get spiritual input from knowflakes

juniperb

posted June 03, 2004 01:19 AM         

By the way, I put the "compassion" heart in my post for a reason.

On Saturday, it is my fifth anniversary.
On Friday, we are hopefully taking the kids to Harry Potter.
On Saturday, I am getting s#it faced, and f*^%#$% the he## out of my husband.

See the duality there? The if you will?
Neither means more than the other, each mean great things to my soul.

posted June 03, 2004 09:37 AM         

Paras, you shouldn't be pained to disagree with one of us. Some of us disagree with you, too.

You are not qualified to determine what anyone needs, except yourself.

Everything that exists is created by God/dess, whether we like it or not.

How dare any of us consider ourselves more spiritually developed than the drunk on the corner? No, not until we've walked a mile in his shoes. As juni said, what do you thing Jesus would do when meeting the drunk?

The Universe is big. Really big. Embrace it as it is. As Harpyr said, on this planet: We are One, but we're not the Same.

posted June 06, 2004 06:37 PM         

I have a genuine concern for the world around me, and the people in it, and I feel that what I have to say is important. It would not be good if the runoff from my personal feelings were to obscure the meaning of my words or take the focus away from it.

Pixelpixie, I think you have misunderstood something somewhere. If "On Saturday, I am getting s#it faced, and f*^%#$% the he## out of my husband" makes sense as a response to my words, then you are implying that you do not love your husband. I never said I was against sex with someone you truly love; the phrase "getting laid" was meant to imply sex for no other reason than physical gratification. Or, as Linda puts it:
"Interesting that LUST is **** . It's difficult to determine whether those two words were deliberately formulated by human wordsmiths or word druids. Lust describes mating experienced for one partner's selfish sexual pleasure only."

(Now, before someone tears apart Linda's words and tries to use them in a perverted defense of their own activities, may I point out that it is quite possible for both partners to be involved for their own gratification at the same time.)

As for getting "s#it faced", Pixie, it makes me sad that you haven't learned better yet.

Juniper, Pixelpixie, Trillian: you three seem to be some of the most influential movers-and-shakers on this board. That puts a certain responsibility on you, whether you want to accept it or not. Those who are less sure of themselves, those who come here seeking answers, they will follow your lead. ("You've all said it" -- and I could dig a million similar responses out of this site if you want to try and deny your influence on others.) Please be careful where you lead them! And in case it's not obvious, most of this post is a response to your words. Harpyr and lalalinda simply (and wisely) commended love and good will to my attention, and left it at that. But you have put yourselves int he dubious position of trying to argue with good morals. What bothers me (as usual) is that I don't understand why.

Juniperb, you have implied (quite overtly) that my ego is the driving force behind my "judgements". I must inform you that you are incorrect. It has been a loooong time since I felt the need to play the juvenile game of "tear the other guy down so I look better standing next to him" in order to feel good about myself. I worked very hard for many years to build my self-esteem to an (almost) unassailable level. But not unrealistic! I am quite aware of my faults and weaknesses.Psychology and astrology have both helped me to achieve this clarity, and it would not be possible if I had not first subdued my ego. The ego is the voice in your head that says, "Come now, you're fine just the way you are. You don't want to look at this ugly black stain on your soul, it will make you feeeel bad." Well, I have long been willing to feel bad if necessary for my own self-improvement.

I see the ego at work everywhere, in everyone, all the time. I am constantly aware of its presence. Let me give you an example. I have a friend who ignores some of the questions I ask him. He just doesn't respond. (Which drives me crackers, as you might imagine.) The questions he ignores are usually questions designed to make him THINK, to come to a conclusion on his own brain-power rather than me handing him the answer. I already know the answer to the question. He ignores it because he looks at the situation from the p.o.v. that answering will cast him in an unfavorable light next to me. That he will "look less smart" by comparison. What drives me the craziest is that comparison isn't the issue -- at least not my issue. I simply want to stimulate his brain cells so he actually learns something rather than handing him a piece of data that he will quickly forget, and that won't be assimilated into his general und4erstanding of the world. But it's his EGO that causes him to ignore me. He gives up a chance to learn something for the sake of "not looking bad". Now THAT attitude is what looks bad to me, not the fact that he didn't know this or that specific piece of information. Personally, I never once think about how "smart" or "dumb" I will look when I want to know something. If I have a question, I ask! My concern is learning, not competition.

Here are a few habits that 99% of people I have ever met have, and that inhibits their collective spiritual growth:
1.) Worrying that you will seem dumb to others. This keeps people from asking questions when they need to know something.
2.) Worrying that you will seem conceited to others. Because of this, those who say anything positive about themselves are instantly considered conceited. But saying negative things about yourself is common and quite accepted.
3.) Worrying that you will hurt other people's feelings. This is giving in to others' egos, either out of an exaggeratd sense of sympathy or for fear of that ego's retribution.

Now, the ego has wrought its curse upon the three of you in a way I can only describe as a "nearly valueless mentality". You keep saying that "everything should be accepted". Well, I disagree. I have values, and that means I can't accept certain things. I can't accept the Hitlers or the Charles Mansons of the world, and neither can I accept a society full of spiritually lazy, lust- and alcohol-driven people. I will fight against these things to my last breath. My fight may only take the form of verbal disagreement, but that seems to be the right way to go about it.

Now, I'm sorry if you feel the need to make an ego-comparison issue about this, and feel that I'm attacking your self-worth, but I'm not, and I'm going to say it anyway. INGESTING ALCOHOL IS BAD. PERIOD. And you know this! Alcohol is a solvent; it dissolves things. The human body was not designed to absorb it. It kills brain cells -- you know, the only cells in the body that don't grow back. It (artificially) heightens emotion, and decreases awareness, intelligence, manual dexterity, and inhibition. Despite modern rhetoric, I know that some inhibitions have their purpose; they are a healthy part of a well-functioning mind. How many people have died -- and continue to die every year -- directly because of alcohol? In car crashes, from liver failure, etc. etc.. How many otherwise good people do bad things under its influence? Tis one ties lust in with it: how many unwanted children are born every year because two people got drunk and horny? I tell you as I look around at the world, most unwanted children end up being very poorly parented, if at all, and grow up with serious psychological issues.

How on earth can you try to defend alcohol?

It's never done anything good for anyone, not that I've ever seen. I've seen it cause plenty of fights, and hurt, and pain, and mayhem, but never once have I seen it do anything good. And I have tons of experience with its users and abusers. A large database, if you will, from which to draw statistics and make such a conclusion.

As for lust, I cannot give you such concrete examples of its ill effects, other than the one I already mentioned. Mostly it's a matter that affects the Spirit -- the real You-of-You, as Linda would put it. And I take Spiritual matters far more seriously than "mundane" or "physical" ones. Even an immortal will someday forsake the body, and exist only as his true form -- an accumulated mass of thoughts, feelings, and ideas. By choosing our thoughts and our values, I believe we literally create ourS-elves.

Trillian, you said, "You are not qualified to determine what anyone needs, except yourself." Not exactly true. Common sense is what people used to call the knowing of what was generally good for everyone, and I aspire to a certain level of it. If I see someone coming up behind you with a gun, ready to blow your brains out, should I say, "Well, it's not for me to decide what's best for trillian," and let him do it? Wouldn't you much rather I determined that you need to stay alive more than you need to die unwillingly, and stop the guy? I make an extreme example so that the point is clear. The point is, to some extent, yes I am qualified to determine what someone else needs. And I've determined that everyone could do without lust and alcohol. Funny, but I think the namesake of this site pretty much made the same determination -- or I am completely misinterpreting her words.

And what do I think Jesus would do if he met a drunk? Well, I certainly don't think he'd offer him another bottle.

Well, I'm running out of steam for this post. Do yourself a favor, before you reply, do what I did; let it go for awhile, let your emotions cool down, give it time to soak in. I honestly hope that your ego doesn't get in the way of this posts's true purpose, and that it helps you remember something you seem to have forgotten.

posted June 06, 2004 09:49 PM         

"do any of you understand this? Do any of you agree?"

I understand. May I join your club? I've been accused of being judgemental too. Of course, I too prefer to think of it as discerning. I judge but I do not condemn. Judging, discerning, weighing, observing the triumphs and failures of others - this is one way I learn to better steer my own ship. I'm usually ruthless with myself too. A few weeks ago someone here at LL told me in a rather nasty fashion that I was condescending. I spent the next week asking everyone I know if I was condescending. I sat and thought in depth about this for days. Silly, huh? Well, maybe I am.

I don't fault anyone for their mistakes or what I might think of as a shortcoming. Who am I to do that? I think the same as you do about alcohol but, hey, if pixel (what a rare combination of sparkly and deep, completely adore her) wishes to get sh*tfaced ...well... knock yourself out girl. Trillian (terribly interesting, strong mind, strong soul) seems to be a bit of a (I mean this in a good way) Relativist. I am not. I believe in grey but I mostly believe in black and white. But I think that the Path of Relativism is a valid and necessary one for the soul to travel. Lovely things to be learned in that country - tolerance, acceptance - good things. So who am I to argue with one walking that path? Maybe I've already walked it. Maybe I'll walk it again. Maybe I'm not yet up to the challenge. Juniperb - what can I say? Instant, deep respect. If I disagree with something that Juni has said I give serious thought to the possibility that I'm just plain wrong.

"it's not for me to decide what's best for trillian" Hmmm. This is a hard one. I've struggled with this one for a long time. When I was a teenager my best friend attempted suicide. Right there in front of me. First she tried to swallow a bottle of pills then she tried to slit her wrist. I didn't stop her. I was of the opinion back then that it was her life and who was I to tell her what to do or what was right for her. On paper this is a nice concept but in practice it is quite another thing. But I had a philosophical conviction and I stuck to it. On the other hand, I was delving into some rather dark waters at the time and I'm sure that had something to do with it too. I've learned since then but I still wonder. Now, maybe someone will say, "but obviously she was not in a rational state of mind. She needed psychological help. You should have intervened". But who am I to say she wasn't in a rational frame of mind? Who am I to judge if it was the right thing for her to do?

I try to keep this in mind when I judge
"you can not rise higher than the highest that is in each of you. You can not sink lower than the lowest that is in each of you"

As for the uneasy balance between accepting myself as is and trying to better myself..ooh..that's a hard one too. My husband always says to me, "you're never happy with the way things are. you're never satisfied with yourself or anyone else or the whole world". At which point I reply,
"a man's reach should exceed his grasp. Or what's a heaven for?"

tink

ps By the way, I do not believe the ego to be entirely evil. I think it has an important purpose in the spiritual evolution of mankind.

pps Hope you had a nice day yesterday pixie I know I did

posted June 06, 2004 10:10 PM         

Your example is faulty, to begin with. I might choose to lift a bottle and drink it. Should a gunmen sneak up on me from behind, it would seem as though that is something I did not choose.

My example is conscious. Yours is not. Your example is a different sort of intervention.

Should you see me become so drunk that I cannot function in my daily life, you might choose to assist me to what you believe to be a better path. It doesn't change what I am, or what I need, or what I might have needed at the time.

Linda was an amazing woman, who has nothing but my love and respect, due in part to her ability to change her mind or her beliefs as her life progressed, as she learned more.

I stand by what I said. You are not qualified to determine anyone's needs, except your own.

Thank you for the lovely words, Tink. I may indeed be a Relativist. So be it.

Paras, I am not here to lead anyone anywhere. I offer my opinions, strong as they may be (what else to expect from someone with as much Aries as I?). I do encourage people to find their own paths.
I don't seek approval from anyone, nor do I think anyone should seek approval from me.

I don't believe I have encouraged anyone to do anything that I would have to worry about, nor do I need anyone to tell me to be careful with what I advise. I am not irresponsible.

The dubious position of arguing with good morals?
Sometimes paras, with all due respect, what you say smacks of religious zealotry.

posted June 06, 2004 10:12 PM         

But I will tell you what was condescending:

"pixel, I feel sad that you haven't learned better yet."

posted June 07, 2004 12:38 AM           

Love,

daf

posted June 07, 2004 01:48 AM         

quote:

---

2.) Worrying that you will seem conceited to others. Because of this, those who say anything positive about themselves are instantly considered conceited. But saying negative things about yourself is common and quite accepted.

---

You used quite general and broad examples when giving your reasons. YOUR reasons for the things you say... You want a debate, I'll give you one. I will do it respectfully, because that is how one debates... I will not go too much into my background... but I, like probably everyone else on some level have had personal negative experiences with alcohol. But anyone can have bad experiences with practically anything. I could make gorgeous quilts, and one day poke my eye with the needle on an upsweep.. I would still like sewing, and it wouldn't alter my opinion of quilts. If you focus only on the negatives, that's what you will see. For years, I didn't touch it.. I didn't want to lose control, I was afraid to compromise my morals. But I opened myself up and stopped closing my mind to something over a grudge... over a fear,. and I embraced letting myself 'imbibe'. For me, it was an awakening, not a closing.. when I let my non-drinking control me, it was as limiting as becoming an alcoholic. Now I can say to my brain... go away, you've worked hard all week, you deserve this. Some do it with a hot bath, some with marijuana, some with sedatives. We each have that 'crutch'.. to varying degrees, and I enjoy it. I am not an alcoholic however, But I enjoy it. For now. One day, I know it will not fit in with the cycle I will be going through, so I will refrain.
Everything kills brain cells. Wasn't there a recent study that actually proved they grow back? The brain is constantly upgrading,... re establishing connections, removing ones that haven't been used... re networking paths..... An evolution.
And yes, your comment about the 'lust'.. yes, when I responded to attraction, once upon a time, we both enjoyed.
I'm sure there's more, but I am tired.

Let me say again... I could agree with each and every thing you said ( I don't)
the thing I don't ever appreciate, is being told in an authoritative tone what I should and shouldn't do. It is my right to do what I will, within morals and the rules of society. Luckily, I am a contributing, kind, helpful member of society.
I would never think of putting my friend down, or on the spot like you say you do to your friend.. 'to make him think.' Maybe he is thinking like crazy, but doesn't share, like you do.. he is different, right? It isn't appropriate to force your views on anyone, or make them do something, or get annoyed when their brain doesn't work the same as yours.. Maybe it is disappointing to you, but that is your choice. If my friend was frustrated with me, because I didn't respond to their brain games, I don't think that friend would be appreciating my individuality. I would question the friendship. That is an ego game. Forcing your ID upon someone else. "Forcing" in the sense that you are aware that he doesn't respond to the things you like, the questions you like, and being annoyed by it.. you are expecting too much. What works for one doesn't work for all.
I like anchovies. Who wants to share a pizza with me?

quote:

---

As for getting "s#it faced", Pixie, it makes me sad that you haven't learned better yet

---

posted June 07, 2004 03:33 AM         

like my mother, i mean you are a passionate soul, maybe forceful, and frustrated at some of the people and things you see going on around you. ..... a spiritual warrior.

i dont think that is such a bad thing. it might rub alot of people the wrong way. but, oh well. i hear what you are saying - and i agree with alot of your views. although i can also see and agree with alot of the others views and points to.

my mother has the exact same views on alcohol as you. she makes this known to me way too often. i agree with this and completely understand where she's coming from. but at this point on my path i'm not there yet. i don't drink that often, it's just not that big of a deal to me.

yes, alcohol is not good for so many reasons. i agree - it's broken up my family. but, everyone will percieve something in a different way and do things in a different way - this doesn't make it wrong.

i just wanted to say stick around. i like you - you remind me of someone i love very much. and im sure you never would, but, don't change. we need people like you shake and wake things up a bit.

what can come off as angry, or whatever to some. is really coming from a place of love and sheer frustration at your fellow man. believe me, i go there too.

we are all on our own paths. as much as we might want to change certain people - especially the ones we really care for. there comes a time when you realize you can't, nor should you.

just want to let you know- i feel you.

love and light
26 taurus

PS Daf? Why do stay away from the global unity thing? just wondering. Actually nevermind - feels right to me. To each their own.

luv all you linda landers

posted June 07, 2004 03:43 AM         

Through spiritual and psychological study, Ego is understood, not eradicated. Ego is what makes us human.. the ability to strive for things, the compulsion to get... whether it be spiritul enlightenment or financial gain.. Ego is a useful tool. Ego saves face, ego ruins face. Ego is our face. It has it's place. Sometimes misguided, but needed.
My ego doesn't appreciate you saying "I must have misunderstood something there.." While I do tend to over-react to implied putdowns on my intelligence, I did not misunderstand what you'd written.
"But too much I see people talking about how drunk they're going to get, how badly they want to get laid, and what a great job the Powers That Be have done in producing the heartless, materialistic, amoral modern age."
To which I replied ( sarcastically, and with shock value) I was basically getting laid and drinking this weekend. As if to say-Deal with it. But also that I was spending quality time with my children. As in-You can have both. One doesn't negate the other. In fact, they balance. I am not hurting anyone when I choose to drink. What do you care? I mean, seriously.. I am not telling you to be irresponsible...... on the same token, I am not responsible for someone drinking because they saw me write that I was. That's is too much for my ego.. that someone would for some reason see me as a role model? Hah! The title under my name says "knowflake" not, "Know-it-all-flake."

And TINK~ I have to say, I skipped some posts to reply while it was fresh ( I know paras, you said I should wait, but as I have demonstrated, I am not good with direction.. Uranus and Mars conjunct my Sun.. it is my curse, as judgement is yours...)
I read them afterwards, I have to say.. thank you for sneaking that comment about me in there, it was very sweet to read. I have already said before that the feeling is mutual. I like that.. sparkly and deep. Thank you.

Thank you also, Trillian, for defending me. As usual, I am walking the same path you are. Sometimes I even skip!(Others, I drag, but I won't go there)

Paras~ I called you Rat-Tastic!!! C'mon, now!

posted June 07, 2004 08:28 AM           

Because the Global Unity thread is the site of some of the more materialistic conversations on LindaLand and they simply do not appeal to me as much as they once did. Is there anything wrong with that? No. Is it something that I am above? Certainly not. Is it something that I WOULD like to remain away from. Most of the time, yes.

The notion of a unified human race is one that is more near and dear to my heart than you could possibly know, however I don't intend to get there by bitching about whats wrong with the world today. There are very few solutions offered, it seems. Mostly, I have read opinions, conjecture, partisan bickering, paranoia and complaints coming from there. Perhaps the ONE thread that was of even MILD interest to me there was Paging JW, and that because he is just an insanely funny character. Still there is only so much innuendo that one can engage in before one is wading in it. That's why I stay away from the Global Unity forum here on Lindaland. Again, that is not what's best for everyone, nor am I necessarily right about my assessment of Global Unity's content. That's simply what's best for me, and how I feel about it at this time.

Love,

posted June 07, 2004 08:49 AM         

Everything's Zen. Peace.

Oh. Speaking of Zen, Tink I think that might represent my mind-set more than Relativism. Or is Taoism a close relative? Not that I am a Taoist, I hesitate to classify myself. It doesn't allow room for change.