Author
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Topic: Ok let's try this again
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ghanima81 Moderator Posts: 1577 From: MAINE! :) Registered: Aug 2003
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posted September 19, 2004 09:53 AM
I know what you're saying, Irish Eyes. Not in the Northeast, but where I am living now in the UK. There are so many immigrants and asylum seekers that have come here for a better life, but they don't seem to want to blend in with the rest of the country. I can understand them wanting to keep their traditions and beliefs sacred, but they outright refuse to speak English or associate with British people. It doesn't make sense, if they didn't want to be a part of another culture, why did they so desperately want to move here? And the racism that occurs isn't coming from the native citizens, but from the immigrants. It makes me sad to think that they could be joining their traditions with the ones here, making new traditions, and progressing to a peaceful residence, but instead they are forming their own communities, and not integrating themselves into the general public. This type of self-segregation is what is going to cause problems. Very sad indeed.Actually, about the topic at hand, I was talking to a patron the other day, who was black, and he was asking me about America. He was asking because he had gone on a trip there and spent a year travelling around, up the east coast, across Canada, and down the west coast to LA, then flew to Australia. He said he liked it, the people were nice (he was convinced it was because of his accent), but that he felt America wasn't as liberal as he thought it would be. He said he never saw inter-racial couples walking down the street holding hands, and that in some places he felt as though people were looking at him queerly. He said he loved New England, the Boston area particularly, and San Francisco, but he wasn't impressed with the way he constantly felt like he was being watched. I have to admit, I was a little bothered by that. I guess I kind of thought America was better than that, too. I sort of felt ashamed, even though it has nothing to do with me personally, but to have somebody bring that up specifically when talking about their trip to America, it must have really left a bad taste in his mouth. Ghani IP: Logged |
silverbells Knowflake Posts: 1506 From: The second star to the right (which shines in the night for'eer) Registered: Apr 2003
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posted September 20, 2004 01:08 PM
I identify with what you guys say about the immigrants seeming racist and segregating themselves. It is hurtful and angering when someone comes into what you may feel to be "your place" and acts as if they don't like you and you are disgusting or something. "Why not learn 'MY' language, and why give me those looks and why ignore me when you pass by, man, Is that necessary, couldn't you at least acknowledge me or something? I don't know man. There are some peoples that do keep to themselves because the obligations and rules of their culture/religion are so heavy and stringent that it would be hard to mix and some interaction would not even be inkeeping with some of the tenets of their religion. I don't know about the rest of it though, it could be fear because when you are in a different culture you could be scared of being vulnerable so you show the tough side first. Also, in most cultures women are subservient and have a bunch of limitations on what they can and can't do and it would scandalous for them to interact; sometimes even to say hello and the men don't want to mix because they can't have strange people, especially men around their wives because it is unseemly so why even bother to make friends that you can't socialize properly with? I don't know why the meanness. ------------------ Get some love in your groove, just get hip to forgive... - Michael Franks
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Irish Eyes Knowflake Posts: 461 From: PA,USA Registered: Apr 2004
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posted September 22, 2004 11:42 PM
ghanima-It is sad to hear about the man who visited the US. I have many friends that are from Europe that now live here or lived here while getting an education and they too have had the same response. I understand about the differences in culture/religion and always make sure that I do not offend anyone if it can be helped. (More that once I have said or done the wrong thing and thank God they understood and laughed it off) What I cannot understand is the attitude that some of these people have. They segragate themselves and then complain that they are not treated the same. It hurts them and the rest of us. True Story: On Friday I received a 2nd degree burn from a co-worker that did not understand English enough to understand that she had a tray that had come out of the over on my arm and I was against a wall where I could not move. She finally understood me yelling her name. By then the damage was done. And today she burned someone else. I do not blame her, it was an accident but she went to the superviser and said that she was uncomfortable with the way everyone was treating her. She said that we were being racist. The truth was that we were staying away from her so that we did not get burned. By the end of the day we had it all cleared up and everyone was on good terms again. Although, I will be sure to make sure that she and all the others in that kitchen do not have a hot pan it their hands when I am standing near them! IP: Logged |
Gia Knowflake Posts: 1154 From: California Registered: May 2004
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posted September 23, 2004 01:41 PM
I flashed back 40 years when I read this question. I had just started infant school in the London. I was five years old and so excited about school that I could barely contain myself.We all made new friends in the playground. My best friend after only a few hours, was a little girl called Samruthi from Pakistan. I had noticed Samruthi's skin was slightly different to mine, but it was barely noticeable. She also spoke a little differently and sometimes I had to listen extra carefully, but that was barely noticeable too. That was until we sat down behind our brand new desks and faced the dumbest teacher I have in ever met in my entire 45 years of life. She thought it important to remind us all of our differences, our class, race, privileges, habits. She spoke about the way we dressed, the food we ate and worse still, pointed out poor Samruthi as an example of someone who came from a country where most people had no proper restrooms. I can only imagine the indignity poor Samruthi felt as all eyes were upon her. Now we knew for sure she was different, we looked at her differently, and she sure as hell felt different. No one had ever taught me that I was superior before. I'm sure no one had ever taught Samruthi such a good lesson on inferiority either. One minute we were friends and the same. Half a hour later, she was as the teacher put it, 'Colored' I was 'White' and now Samruthi was somehow alien to us. My friend Samruthi had to endure the ignominy of 'special treatment' because she was different. I always secretly smiled at the fact her last name was Taylor. I don't believe in special treatment. I believe it causes that which it is meant to abhor. Gia
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Yin Knowflake Posts: 1409 From: Registered: May 2004
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posted September 23, 2004 02:23 PM
quote:
I don't know about the rest of it though, it could be fear because when you are in a different culture you could be scared of being vulnerable so you show the tough side first.
You hit it right on the nose with this sentence Silverbells. Yes, coming from a different culture and trying to blend it is a long process that requires a lot of flexibility and inner strength at the same time. One has to be OPENMINDED about whatever crosses one's way. Just think along these lines: People immigrate to your country(USA, UK, Australia...) because of all the things they have HEARD, READ, or SEEN on TV. They don't know the reality yet. And when the reality hits them, it hits hard. IP: Logged |
silverbells Knowflake Posts: 1506 From: The second star to the right (which shines in the night for'eer) Registered: Apr 2003
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posted September 23, 2004 06:28 PM
Yin that is true, one has to remember not to believe what it may be popular to believe no matter how hard it is to do that. Caution is better than being mean. But you know what else? THe meanness of a group of people could have something to do with wanting to maintain a sense of belonging with the group. When you belong to a group and you know how it feels to feel apart, it could encourage indivduals to try to make others feel as though they don't belong so that you feel the comrarderie with your people more keenly.------------------ Get some love in your groove, just get hip to forgive... - Michael Franks IP: Logged |
pixelpixie Knowflake Posts: 5301 From: Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 2005
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posted September 23, 2004 10:28 PM
In Kindergarten, My 'best friend's' name was Trajinder. I thought she was great.. she spoke a little differently, and always faintly smelled of spices. I went to her house a few times, and her family was large, and smelled very strongly of spices. I remember finding it interesting, and I remember feeling a little awkward at her home. Not unwelcome, just aware that I stood out, as a little blond girl with pigtails and a pink gingham dress. I somehow recall an uncomfortableness to going home to my family, to the smell of pine scented floors and familiarity. This is cultural... and fascinating.I can't stand the way some people talk.. there is absolutely no relevance to someone's race or culture and they will put it in.. you don't say.. " I was talking to my friend the other day, *she is white* and she was saying.."blah blah blah..." I mean.. it is redundant to the scenario... I can't stand when someone pauses in a story they are relating to put in the particulars of someone's race.... as if it even matters!!! I mean, when it has no bearing to the situation... you know? Like .. "There is this guy who works at such and such.. a black guy..." or whatever. Like.. it wouldn't have made any difference , but when you relate it this way, it does... you know? You make it important by mentioning it. You segregate the words by category. You intentionally segregate when you talk like this. I try to break my Father-in-law's back about this as much as I can. It just bothers me. IP: Logged |
Gia Knowflake Posts: 1154 From: California Registered: May 2004
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posted September 24, 2004 12:21 AM
Yes, I agree with you Pixelpixie. Gia IP: Logged |
silverbells Knowflake Posts: 1506 From: The second star to the right (which shines in the night for'eer) Registered: Apr 2003
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posted September 25, 2004 12:43 PM
pixelpixie - you don't think that there is a difference in culture that would make the reference relevant, however abstract?I was watching tv the other day and I saw this commercial for that new cartoon movie with the fish, can't remember what it's called. This, apparantly, black fish went to some sort of meeting where he was meeting a, apparantly, white fish. So they do "soul brother" hand shake and when the "white fish" messes it up, the "black fish" goes Oh, well don't worry about it, most white fish can't do it, or something like that. Sure there are differences culturally but to put a joke like that in a children's movie is pretty sick I think. Perhaps it was meant to show a friendship and acceptance of differences among the races and to encourage children to follow suit but I don't know that it is really appropriate, but perhaps it is. I just don't know. IP: Logged |
pixelpixie Knowflake Posts: 5301 From: Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 2005
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posted September 25, 2004 01:00 PM
Everything is situational.. there is no perfect medium. What I was referring to was simply my frustrations... of course, I relish the differences between preople.. when I see a person with blue hair and interesting choices of clothing, that is a statement, and is interesting.. it is made to stand out. Of course I notice the difference. Sometimes positively, sometimes negatively. I am open-minded enough to know that what works for one doesn't necessarily work for the next person..... For instance.. cultural differences that make me cringe, yet ones I can 'accept' simply because I need to....(for now) A family was walking in a themepark, on a spectacularily hot day.... two little girls, dressed normally, a man, dressed normally.. and his wife, dressed completely covered, head to toe, only her eyes peeking through her burka... on a hot hot hot day. That, to me is ludacris. Impractical and stifling and my goodness, if her flesh is made to 'tempt' when it melts off her body in the heat, which is better? I mean, her husband was wearing shorts. This, I feel, is a cultural shortcoming. Was it my place to say anything? No. Did I notice? Hell yeah. It still bugs me. Racism and biggotry is found in any race... not just the white race. There are various points of acceptance. The situation I was referring to in my previous post.. the relevance to the conversation... is most definately a form.. albeit small.... of dividing. I don't want to tell a super long story, but I know it is.. it feels uncomfortable. It isn't for the purpose of visualisation..... it is for no purpose whatsoever... just shows the blinders that are automatic to some. IP: Logged | |