posted September 22, 2004 02:33 PM         

I had a LOAD of fun durring that time in my life. I was completely single. No man. Didn't want one. Wanted to do my own thing with no strings attached. I did it.. I had a blast and I learned a lot.

posted September 22, 2004 04:49 PM         

But, we're defined by the choices we make on a daily basis, and I'm just concerned that you will one day come to regret this choice.

posted September 24, 2004 04:26 PM         

To astralah, I most certainly meant no offense to you, and have studied many, many religions-this has nothing to do with that. The point I'm trying to make is this: it seems that the people that are so ready to defend the "trade" of stripping become extremely defensive and are quick to reference an abusive childhood or a broken past in general. As already mentioned before, if you were so "ok" with this, why post what you did to start this whole free-for-all? Perhaps you didn't read my whole message: I said at one point in my life, I was there! Thankfully, the true me saved my butt (literally). I am all for women owning their sexuality-but what does getting naked and shaking it have to do with being comfortable as a woman? Now, I am all for "tasteful" nudity in art-whether it be performance art or a painting. This is because the nudity becomes a celebration of being human and not something sexual.

Also, if I had become a stripper, I would def. say the same thing about people who look down on it: that they are not worth my time. But as someone who saved MYSELF from it, you cannot honestly say that most of the men who are ok with the fact their woman made a decision to be leered at naked don't have some kind of issue with themselves. You are more than an object; if you wanted to dance naked for free, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But dancing naked for money makes you something else entirely.

posted September 24, 2004 07:46 PM         

You honestly think there is something wrong with a man who can look past the fact that his spouse at one point decided to try her hand at stripping?

I suggest there is something wrong with anyone with that mentality.

Uh... ever hear of Jesus Christ? He was buddies with a hooker . You saying Jesus was a bad man?

Again... anyone with that point of view is not worth my time.

I also pulled myself out of that life, and I learned a lot because of it. I'll agree that no decent man would be with a woman while she's dancing... but to judge her because of her past is a very primitave mind set, and I wouldn't want anything to do with anyone with such an underdeveloped mental capacity.

posted September 25, 2004 12:22 AM         

But, maybe that's just me. I've been leered at by men since I was 11 - blond, blue eyes, darn cute if I do say so myself, and I sprouted C cup boobies in grade 6. I wasn't ready for the type of attention that came my way, and I often felt dirty because of the looks and comments that came from males of ALL ages, everywhere I went, and the scorn I felt from other girls - aiyche. This is likely why I feel so strongly that stripping cannot be good for a woman's soul. I just don't believe it is. I couldn't deal with being objectified like that. I don't know why anyone would willingly choose that. I think it's a choice that is made while in a bad state, and the heart and mind aren't communicating properly. It's truely a yucky feeling. You are so much more than your shell, but these men don't care...and if you're ok with that, then that means you don't care eithor. This is not liberating and progressive and empowering for womenkind, it is the OPPOSITE. It says that their value is only determined by their shells. Isn't that what we're trying to change?

posted September 25, 2004 01:50 AM         

In your original post, Astralah, you asked four questions:

quote:

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Am I damned? Headed for eternal damnation? Will my relationships with boys be screwed forever? What would Linda think?

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My personal answers to those, very quickly: no, no, possibly, and read on.

Your situation is serious, and you've already gottena lot of advice about it. I won't give you any more advice, because in the end it's you that has to make the decision. No one else can make it for you. And, indeed, it seems that you aren't looking for anyone else to make it for you. From your original questions, you want a clearer understanding of the issues involved, so that you can make an informed choice.

Whenever you enter into any kind of business, it's good to be clear about what product or service you're selling. So what exactly would you be selling as a stripper? What is it that your customers are buying from you? Basically, they're buying mental masturbation. A man can be aroused by the sights shown to him as easily as he can through a touch. The difference between the stripper and the prostitute is only a matter of degree. Each sexually stimulates her client, but one does it through physical means and the other through mental means.

As someone who has never frequented strip clubs, I am puzzled as to why any man would pay to stare at and be aroused by a body he could not then touch. Sounds like frustration to me. Why would I pay to be frustrated? If I were into sex purely for the physical gratification of it, I'd choose a prostitute over a stripper every time. So why, then, do men patronize strip clubs? Put simply, they have a sex obssession. This kind of "entertainment" is not entertainment, it's the pacification of an addiction. Men go to strip clubs for the same reason I just lit another cigarette while typing this. I know that the cigarette doesn't do anything good for me, doesn't benefit me in any way; and the strip club patron knows that staring at half-naked women isn't going to sexually satisfy him. But both they and I have become addicted to something; deep down in the strange inner workings of our subconscious minds, we've decided to use what we're addicted to as a substitute for something we don't think we can get any other way.

Now I need to bring up the topic of 'lust', because this is where anything Linda Goodman might have had to say on the issue comes into play. There are two motivations behind sex and sexual stimulation (again, the product you would be selling as a stripper). One is love and the other is lust. Here's what Linda has to say about sex and lust:

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Most people aren’t aware that when a man and woman mate a powerful auric light is sent out into the ethers, visible to millions of trinities of Spirits, Minds and Souls awaiting a birth channel. If the mating occurs for no reason but lust, the auric colors of the spectrum are muddy and indistinct, a rust-red color, and attract, as a birth channel, a Spirit who is not highly evolved but a spirit who, nevertheless, deserves his or her spin on the Karmic wheel of life.

When a man and woman mate in love and tenderness the brilliant auric light projected by such a trembling, ecstatic union attracts a much higher evolved Spirit, who chooses this mating as a birth channel, which is what is meant by a “love child,” and does not necessarily require a piece of paper called a marriage license. Neither Spirits nor our Creators pay any attention to pieces of paper – since many of those who possess such a piece of paper mate in lust only. Parental channels are thus chosen by Spirits awaiting incarnation.

Interesting that LUST is **** . (***note: this is from the Lexigrams chapter) It’s difficult to determine whether these two words were deliberately formulated by human wordsmiths or word druids. Lust describes mating experienced for one partner’s selfish sexual pleasure only.

Sexual union experienced by those who have TAMED each other before they MATED, as we've already discussed, is blessed, and need not be experi-enced only for the purpose of conceiving. The ecstatic reward of love is a holy experience, whether or not it results in a voluntary or involuntary concep-tion. To create new life is a blessing, but so is the creation of mutual peace and fulfillment.

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Notice the definition of lust there. I can imagine a rebuttal to this already: but when two people have sex, even if they don't love each other, they can still both enjoy it and get satisfaction from it." Yes, in a purely physical sense, they can both enjoy it. But each person is participating in order to experience their own enjoyment. Each partner in a love-less mating matches Linda's definition at teh same time. In my opinion, sex should not be a purely physical enterprise. We as human beings are bound to physical bodies, which have desires of their own, quite independent from the desires of our Spirits, our real S-elves. And these bodily desires are what sometimes cause us to separate Love from sex. Spiritual sex, or sex-in-Love, is not about physical gratification; it is about a deep connection and sharing between two people. When this sharing is not the motivation behind our sexual activities, its real value is lost, and we are doing little more than scratching an itch -- satisfying a fleeting desire of the physical body.

A person may choose to have "casual sex" or they may not. I will not be one to label that person a "sinner". Such moral judgements are not for anyone else to make. For myself, I choose to hold the act of sex as sacred; having experienced the full ecstasy of true emotional union that it can be, why would I want to degrade it into something less?

There is another negative effect of lust that Linda mentions in Star Signs, in the sixth of her 'rules' for physical immortality:

quote:

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No sexual promiscuity. It short-circuits your soul. No unnatural sexual union – and don’t pretend you don’t know why. Any behavior in op-position to Nature’s laws is the enemy of the natural process of physical immortality. No pornography. It sets up images that block the discovery of your own Twin Self, through the law of magnetic attraction. And you cannot become a full immortal until you have achieved union with the missing half of your Spirit, of the you-of-you. Just the decision to become immortal in itself guarantees that you’ll find each other, at some point along the path. Isn’t that what you've been secretly searching for and aching for all of your life anyway? Face that truth. However many sex-ual partners you may have had – or are having now – you're still empty, still lonely, and you always will be until that miracle manifests. If you’ve practiced negative sexual behavior in the past, forgive yourself completely, then forget it. The true “confessional” is within.

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Certainly, the idea of not recognizing my Twin Self because my mind is too preoccupied with images of strange women is a sad thought.

All of the foregoing is an explanation of Lioneye's statement about the difference between "the concepts of embracing your sexuality with selling it to complete strangers for the buck. There's a fundamental difference between the two. One cherishes it, while the other devalues it, in an esoteric sense."

As someone who has never objectified women, or seen them as anything other than a human being like myself, worthy of all respect -- I have never "leered at" women, or whistled and cat-called at them, or interacted with a woman solely for the purpose of sleeping with her -- I would hope that you do not feed the lust-addictions of others by sexually exciting them for no good reason with images of your body. I hope you will value your sexuality as more than a physical issue, as I do. But that is just my opinion.

posted September 25, 2004 02:56 AM         

...and for lioneye too.

and to all of you.

posted September 25, 2004 03:31 AM         

26T, I respect your stand on this issue. Tough love. Good food for the soul(sometimes).

posted September 25, 2004 04:25 AM         

I think you're probably a beautiful soul, and you'll end up saying these same things to someone else one day. It might be your own daughter.

Karma is like that.

You asked the question for a very good reason.

Think about it.

Do the right thing.

With love

posted September 25, 2004 04:31 PM         

quote:

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Lioneye68: I think you might be a little squeamish. You sound like me when I was twelve.

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posted September 25, 2004 09:05 PM         

i just want to say that anything involving sexuality usually illicits strong responses, so you can't be surprised if people become passionate. just remember to share the love, baby!

i myself have met men that have dated strippers after they quit, and have been told it is unusually difficult because the women retain negativity from the past. if you have been a stripper, moved on, and found someone that loves you, then that is fabulous! i would never myself judge anyone's partner because of past experiences they have been through. everyone has something they may not be particuarly proud of. as long as you come to terms with it, then you're ok in my book. problems arise only when people say they are past something, but are clearly not. just be honest.

and i wish more males would join this conversation-since this has a lot to do with them, whether or not we want to admit it.