posted September 09, 2006 11:38 PM         

quote:

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Children often respond to spanking, hitting whatever you want to call it, in a manner that's not blatantly clear to us as parents, they may become bullies at school or to younger siblings, there are too many possibilities

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I beg to differ. And there is definitely a world of difference between spanking and hitting which other people have already explained. I have no problem with those of you who don't spank; its great that you have the patience to do so. But are you all trying to say that those that do (and usually as a last resort) need to learn how to parent? My mother is the best parent I could ever ask for. And thats also insulting considering those children who were never disciplined in anyway are actually the ones become the bullies in life because they always got their way at home.

My 2 cents is up,I'm out

posted September 10, 2006 07:10 AM           

I certainly believe you can train the heart of a child and help them to become a compassionate, well-rounded adult without hitting them (and yes, spanking is hitting....try using it on a random adult who isn't into that sort of thing HAHA).

Just because it's been done forever and doesn't always permanently harm children doesn't mean it's the best option, either.

posted September 10, 2006 07:17 AM           

Fayte

Mysticaldream and katipo thanks...

My father smacked me on one occasion and he remembers I came out in a rash from head to toe and started to shake.....that is how bad I reacted. It wasnt a beating it was slapping on the legs. I would much rather he remained calm and spoke to me...I would have co-operated far more quickly. He still regrets this 40+ years on.

My son said to me recently when he saw a mother smacking her child in the street "Mum, you would never do that to me would you"? I replied "no of course I wouldnt, I have no need to".

Yes to confirm what Fayte said smacking is wrong, no smack is a good smack. We are all up in arms if a man slaps his wife....what is the difference.....NONE !!

posted September 10, 2006 09:45 AM           

Dolce Luna I do agree with you that children who are not disciplined at all can become obnoxious bullies as they think they are entitled to and get everything their own way in life. However I don't believe spanking is discipline. I personally believe it is a form of abuse.

I am a strict parent, with regard to good behaviour, but do not need to physically hit my children to achieve this. I 'punish' with the removal of freedom or favourite things for a time. I always tell them why and what I'm doing. If I feel angry (which of course I do at times, I'm human!) I try very hard to go away and calm down. Anger should play no part in discipline.

Children live what they learn. If they are hit they learn that we can hit. If they are punished in other ways they simply learn that there are consequences (but non-violent) for the wrong things we do in life.

Fortunately my kids are pretty well behaved. I have set mealtimes, and set bedtimes, I expect 'thank you' and 'please' and for them to be respectful towards people. But I do praise them loads, hug them, tell them I love them as well.

I don't want to directly criticise those parents who do spank. It's hard being a parent. Very hard. Sometimes we may feel there is no other way. But I do believe there is.

For me personally, physical punishment is no part of love. So I just can't do it.

posted September 10, 2006 12:47 PM         

I have one child - he's been spanked a handful of times before he was 5 years old (like I mentioned earlier in this thread). He's 7 1/2 years old now and wonderful, compassionate, smart, adorable and nearly EVERYONE that has come into contact with him (even people that don't generally like kids) say that he is the sweetest and most well-behaved kid they've ever met.

And, yes, he does learn by example. He learns there are real consequences to his choices. Also by example he's learned to say "thank you", "please", to be generally polite to others, and to eat that veggie burger, and to clean up after himself, to share, and not to yell at people.

Actually, funny enough, I overheard a conversation with him and a little girl friend a couple months ago that went something like:

girl: Sometimes my mom is mean to me. Is your mom mean?

Hunter *sounding confused*: No. My mom's not mean.

girl: Not even sometimes?

HUnter: No. My mom is nice all the time. She loves me.

I have to say it's much better than the little brats that run rampant at restaurants because their parents can't get them to take a time out in their seats. Or the kids I see at the mall that swear at their parents if they don't get what they want.

But, you know, I made a lot of parenting choices that other people didn't make, too. I don't pass judgement on them or think that mine are better. I know people and circumstances are different. For instance - I gave birth naturally without drugs, I breastfed for 18 months, I made all of his babyfood from stratch with organic vegetables. Hunter's first food was organic mashed avocado and banana with flax oil made by me.

There are extremists out there that will say you're a bad mom if you choose to feed your baby formula or if you use drugs during childbirth. You're a bad mom if you go to work and put your child in daycare. What kind of mom are you if you let your child have a sugar cookie? A bad one!

posted September 10, 2006 03:42 PM         

quote:

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However I don't believe spanking is discipline. I personally believe it is a form of abuse.

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posted September 12, 2006 03:34 AM         

Moonwitch

I totally agree with you. I couldn’t have put it better. My mum is not an abuser either. In fact she is the softest mother I have ever known. My dad never touched us but I do remember fearing him… A lot. I knew my mum would not hurt me, it was a kind of quick touch, a reminder… A knew the limits of it… My dad was really scary, because I didn’t know his limits, his voice raised, his pitch went sharp, his look hard… THAT was terrifying, not the controlled spank of my mum.

My granny never touched us, or at least I don’t remember. And she was the same lovely than my mum… My granddad sometimes spanked my cousin, never the rest of us, and we knew the meaning of it… I don’t think a justified and not hurting spank now and again made a difference. Whatever creates fear is what traumatises a child, not the spank itself…

posted September 12, 2006 04:22 AM           

I just wished my parents hadnt felt the need to smack me...it left me a little wounded I am a very sensitive person who responds to reason and kindness. I spent a lot of my childhood in fear of expressing myself because when I showed anger, oftentimes, I got hit...

posted September 12, 2006 08:47 AM           

My father was violent. He didn't spank to discipline, just to be cruel, for no apparent reason, randomly and violently. My mother on the other hand did do it to disipline. It was controlled - ie, we would be taken away to a room and spanked for doing something wrong. It was horrendous and humiliating. I don't blame her though, she was doing as was done to her. She isn't a bad person, she's a wonderful person. I think if she had known how it pained me, humiliated me, to be hit she might have stopped. But I didn't speak up. I wasn't allowed to.

The strange thing is she could control us just by a warning or a stern tone, I often felt sad that she took it to violence.

Children who are spanked....what would you say if they hit someone in the playground? Surely you couldn't discipline them for it, after all they have learnt it is fine to hit.

I believe parents have freedom to choose what they do. But they should know, from a child who was spanked, that it isn't nessesary and it hurts and it's humiliating. I learnt nothing from it except that I knew wasn't going to inflict it on another human being. I am sorry if I seem judgemental, I just cannot help believing that hitting is no part of love.

posted September 12, 2006 10:29 AM         

Yes, Dulce Luna, I so much agree with you. It depends on the child. I was obedient and prone to reason so I didn’t need reminders. Other children are different.

Yes, again, coldness and detachment is far worse. I still fear my dad to a certain extent today. And he never touched me. He just gave orders, bullied verbally not necessarily shouting or wasn’t there.

As Sue said, wise as she is always, each to their own. I have my reasons to believe what I’m saying the same as others may have theirs. But please, do not judge the other part accusing them (or us) of being depraved child abusers, violent and cruel individuals taking advantage of age, strength and size. That’s taking the issue out of context. Some may go too far but others don’t, there are degrees.

PS – I may be using the word “spanking” incorrectly when referring to my mum. You have so many different words meaning similar things in English… It was a firm but soft touch in the butt with her slipper, just one, never left red marks and it was done with clothes on, even with nappies on, still standing on the floor… Please, correct me if I’m wrong…

posted September 12, 2006 01:46 PM           

Well, obviously I didn't like it at the time cos my mum got cross with me quite a lot and at 16 now I go absolutely nuts if my mum hits me.

posted September 12, 2006 01:57 PM           

Having re-read what a lot of peopel have said, maybe I feel the need to explain a little something and lose the flippant tone.

posted September 12, 2006 02:03 PM           

Interesting MNF...

It seems the water signs seem more repelled by the hitting...when our son was 6 months old I met a very wise woman, a healer. She minded him for the day and when we picked him up she said "never ever smack this child"....it was one of the best pieces of advice anyone ever gave to us....

So we didnt (hit him).....and for that piece of advice, I am very very grateful....like me he is a Scorpio and I know it would have left him very bitter...

posted September 12, 2006 02:57 PM           

However, my mum, the one who did the smacking has a Scorpio Moon and Pisces Ascendant. She's generally really emphathetic and hates suffering. God, that must make me really awful to force her to smacking! haha

posted September 12, 2006 04:46 PM         

With my parents in general I kind of take a, "Forgive them for they know not what they do," kind of approach. They had their first kid at 20, and me at 22, so I don't really fault them for not being the wisest of parents in my young years. When the later children came along starting when they were 30 years old, they improved in their parenting technique quite a bit.

I personally wouldn't be inclined towards hitting kids if I had any. I can imagine myself physically putting a kid in his/her place (meaning grabbing them if I need to) if they were too rambunctious at an event that required a certain degree of self-control. Hopefully, I'd prep them for the torture of the situation, though, and explain ahead of time what to expect, so that they'd know what was expected (and be able to act accordingly of their own volition). I'm not a great fan of stuffy, disciplined events myself, though, so hopefully we'd keep those to a minimum.