posted May 30, 2006 09:08 AM         

Anyway, what's wrong with a person exploring his/her sexuality?

------------------
"I would sooner fail than not be among the greatest."
John Keats

posted May 30, 2006 09:18 AM         

I want answers too. I wish I had the answers.
It just does not make sense does it?
While on Earth who is getting the real breaks? The caring folk or the selfish ones?
Sadly I see too often the selfish greedy and manipulative and worse folk getting all the goodies of human living.
Oh there are many exceptions but too often I see the good folks, the truly innocent ones too... being downtrodden while the greedy and cruel and selfserving dance merrily through life.(or are they really unhappy, is it just an illusion, and they are secretly tortured and miserable?).

Makes one wonder indeed as to exactly what God is trying to teach. And Karma? No...I do not think folks are getting paybacks, not in all cases.
Alot of good folk and innocent ones going through unwarrented hell in life.
Why?
They already understand compassion and tolerance. They already understand suffering.
Why does even more get dumped on them?
So yeah Lynx....
I think I do know what you mean.
And I too know God is with us.
Hold on Lynx.
The answers are out there.
I know I am still trying to figure it all out.
Sounds like you are too.
The WHYS of things that happen.
Folks say Karma, folks say Sh-t just happens. I think it may be more complex than that.
So WHY?
I bet many suicides said that....
WHY? WHY? WHY?
Before saying...
"Fu^k it all" and bailing out of life.
Ok rant over.
Just thinking of folks I have known who comitted suicide. Many were good folk..even almost children. Their pasts were awful and their futures looked bleak. I honestly cannot say I blame them.

posted May 30, 2006 09:53 AM         

"You don't always get what you deserve, and you don't always deserve what you get."

posted May 30, 2006 10:01 AM         

It just does not add up does it?
WHY? WHY? WHY?

posted May 30, 2006 02:11 PM         

He had a very abd child hood and it kept affecting him. He could never get over it.

Many people consider it a sin because you leave your loved ones in pain.

posted May 31, 2006 01:51 AM         

Sorry to not have replied sooner but I have been kind of uncommunicative the past two days. I have been giving all that has been said here a lot of thought though.

Sue and Planet_Soul, it's okay it never happened. I know what you mean, Sue, I have the same problem with my Mars in Leo temper combined with Aries in Mercury. I also apologize for being so curt.

Sorry, MG

I am reading along here and taking in all that you all say but as I said, right now I just can't seem to communicate my thoughts or feelings.

Maybe that is because I have come to the point of just accepting that this is how Roger wanted it to be. As hippiechick said, maybe the WHY's are not what is important and we will probably know why anyway. It's just all very sad. Sad for Roger, sad for everyone he left behind. I guess it is because I have always had an analytical mind and just have to know the whys of everything. I drive my husband crazy with that sometimes. Drove all my teachers in school crazy asking why too. lol

I think of him each day now when I get up and see the sun shining, the clouds in the sky, the smell of spring and the birds singing and I think how sad that he will never experience that again. Had it not been for that one day when he made the decision to do what he did, he could still be experiencing these things. But I guess those things just lost their meaning and joy for Roger.

Roger was an Aries. He loved to party. But I know he had a good, kind soul and cared about the less fortunate in the world. He had compassion for people. My sister used to say that Roger and I attracted weirdos and that she was afraid to walk down the street with the two of us. lol When someone has a lot of compassion and empathy for others troubled people are attracted to you. It was that way.

For all the things he did wrong, there were so many things that Roger did right. I just wish he could have understood that.

posted May 31, 2006 02:52 AM         

I don't know why.

I have no idea what the hell this damn world is about. Some of the best people that I know -- the most loving, sensitive, absurdly pure of heart people -- seem to get so much sh*t dumped on them time and again, as you said.

Some would say they have bad karma, but I think that's a cop out. To me, it seems to be a simplistic explanation of life and why certain things happen to certain people. But I think life is a lot more complicated than that.

I don't get it. I don't get any of it. What kind of system is this?? I'm sick of feeling pressured to constantly see life as being so beautiful and precious. It *is* precious, and I guess it's all we have, but sometimes, I'm just so sad and angry about the way things are on this planet.

posted May 31, 2006 02:57 AM         

Apology accepted .....

And again I am so sorry for your loss....and I hope you will soon gain a little understanding around it....

Life is a bummer at times isnt it girl?

posted May 31, 2006 03:44 AM         

I didnt realise how tough life was until I became a mother (having nearly lost my life during birth and then going on to suffer horrible depression for a few years).

But I also didnt realise how much capacity I had to love and to always stretch that bit further..

I have in the past felt sorry for myself....rejection, no money, crap jobs, fights with family, friends letting me down, illness, depression, suicidal thoughts etc etc etc.

Its so easy to focus on the negatives......and then out of nowhere.....WOW......something good happens....and for me its usually.....LOVE

When we find this love within ourselves and then from others, the dark days dont seem as dark.

Did you ever think of learning any of the healing arts....I trained in massage, aromatherapy, reiki and other stuff...and quite literally, it changed my life....

Good luck to you....chin up....and wishing all good things to come to you...

posted May 31, 2006 10:42 AM         

------------------
Gemini sun, Cancer rising, mercury in Gemini, moon in Taurus *29, venus in Taurus, mars in Libra

-I took a walk around the world to ease my troubled mind. I left my body lying somewhere in the sands of time. But I watched the world float to the dark side of the moon. I feel there's nothing I can do.

posted May 31, 2006 11:32 AM         

I think I may have given off the wrong impression...I'm not as miserable as I may seem, lol. Although I do tend to have a pretty melancholic, "gloom-and-doom' side to me. Ahh the joys of being a Capricorn.

Maybe if I were in love I would see the whole world differently. In fact, I'm sure I probably would.

But as I am now, I just....don't. I'm young, but I've seen too many good people suffer too much. (And I'm not talking about 'woe is me' depression -- I'm talking about ungodly suffering). So yes, it's true -- I'm not in love with the world right now.

posted May 31, 2006 12:26 PM         

All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten

All I really need to know about how to live and what to do and how to be I
learned in kindergarten. Wisdom was not at the top of the graduate school
mountain, but there in the sandpile at Sunday School. These are the things
I learned:

Share everything.
Play fair.
Don't hit people.
Put things back where you found them.
Clean up your own mess.
Don't take things that aren't yours.
Say you're sorry when you hurt somebody.
Wash your hands before you eat.
Flush.
Warm cookies and cold milk are good for you.
Live a balanced life--learn some and think some and draw and paint and sing
and dance and play and work every day some.
Take a nap every afternoon.
When you go out into the world, watch out for traffic, hold hands, and
stick together.
Be aware of wonder. Remember the little seed in the Styrofoam cup: The
roots go down and the plant goes up and nobody really knows how or why, but
we are all like that.
Goldfish and hamsters and white mice and even the little seed in the
Styrofoam cup--they all die. So do we.
And then remember the Dick-and-Jane books and the first word you
learned--the biggest word of all--LOOK.

Everything you need to know is in there somewhere. The Golden Rule and love
and basic sanitation. Ecology and politics and equality and sane living.

Take any one of those items and extrapolate it into sophisticated adult
terms and apply it to your family life or your work or your government or
your world and it holds true and clear and firm. Think what a better world
it would be if we all--the whole world--had cookies and milk about three
o'clock every afternoon and then lay down with our blankies for a nap. Or
if all governments had as a basic policy to always put things back where
they found them and to clean up their own mess.

And it is still true, no matter how old you are-- when you go out into the
world, it is best to hold hands and stick together.

posted May 31, 2006 12:44 PM         

quote:

---

Life is a bummer at times isnt it girl?

---

Yes, it is Sue.

I also think that those who do love and see the world through the eyes of spirituality do suffer more than those who never give those things a thought. The closer we draw to God the more the evil of this world will throw at us because evil cannot bear good and will attempt to destroy it.

I know where you are coming from Fayte, Lynx, Gooberz it does make us wonder why and maybe even the explanation I just gave is to simplistic. Basically it is due more to the choices we as individuals make and every act we perform, every word we speak is like throwing a rock into a pond of water, it has a ripple effect on the whole world. Evil or negative acts create more and more evil in the world. Good and positive acts create more love and compassion in the world. Not enough of us human beings - or humans BEING - are making the good and right choices. So it seems that evil prevails in the world. Maybe those of us who are trying to be better people and bring more love and compassion into a hurting and wounded world are bearing the brunt for those who aren't trying.

I think that while it seems evil is prevailing in the world and the evil doers are the ones prospering we have to keep our focus on the whole panorama - the big picture - and we know that love and good always wins out over evil. That is our hope and we have to keep doing what we are doing to bring that about.

This makes me more aware of just what a smile or kind word to a stanger can do. Imagine what that might do for someone who feels isolated in a cold world, is at that brink of despair and having suicidal thoughts. That person might be uplifted and given hope by just a smile and kind word from us. I have to start doing that more instead of at times being too wrapped up in what is going on my own life. I think we all have to start doing that more. Even if we are rejected or ignored or mistreated for our kindness, we have done our part to help bring love and kindness and compassion into a suffering world. We have brought a little more light into the darkness.

It is in overcoming the hurts we suffer at the hands of others and all that life throws at us that we become all the stonger for it. I think the saying that " what doesn't kill us only serves to make us stronger" is very true. But it is up to us to choose to let it make us stronger or give into the feelings of anger, bitterness, hate and revenge that seem to be the norm in our society.

Through the tragedy of Roger's death I feel that we here on this thread have all come to know each other better and grown a little closer. And it has also brought my family closer together. My sister and I have gone too long between our phone conversations. We get so much into our daily routines of life that we don't find or take the time. So in every dark cloud there is a silver lining. I believe that is because God is constantly creating and constantly working to bring good out of the worse things in life. That is why I have the hope and belief that evil has already been destroyed even when it is happening and always will be destroyed by love and goodness.

We are all strangers in a strange land because we are all sojourners in this life. All we can do is take life a day at a time and enjoy each day while it is there because tomorrow it will be gone and the future is out of sight. We can plan for the future and should, but all the while realizing that our plans may never come about because God usually has his own plans for our life and we have to trust that his plans are always better for us than ours are. Even when it doesn't seem that way to us at the time.

Hope is what keeps us going. Without hope all becomes dark. Dante in his "Inferno" says that there is a sign over the gates of hell that read: "Abandon all hope here." As long as we are alive we have hope. After death there will be no need of it either in heaven or hell. Though I do not think of either as being a "place" but instead a state of eternal existance. I think after death that God gives us what we chose in this life. If we choose God and try even if we fail at times it doesn't matter, that fundamental choice is all that matters. If we choose ourselves over God in this life that is what we have for all eternity, ourselves alone. We don't have the love that even the most evil of us at least experience in their own terms and we don't have the hope that even the most evil us at least have in this life, nor do we have the parties, friends and things that distract us in the life. We only have ourselves totally alone for all eternity. Since being alone is the number fear of all humans we can easily imagine that is an existance that would be total hell.

posted May 31, 2006 01:06 PM         

I love that book!!!!!!!
"All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten".

Mirandee
Wise and introspective you are!

posted May 31, 2006 03:27 PM         

Old Father Saturn hey?

My mother is a Cappy and my sister has it rising....god bless em....both suffer from the doom and gloom thing from time to time....

My mother always claims she was born miserable, always the worrier and the dampner of spirits she is....and I and my father always try to stay optimistic, hopeful and ALIVE...despite our depressions....

Mirandee...

The only things that have kept me going at times, is my belief in God, the Angels and the very strong power of prayer....and of course,,,,L O V E.....I do at the moment have and give lots of it....I swim in it at times....blissful it is....all forms of it....there for the giving and taking for all.

I cannot be around negative people for long though, especially when I see they choose to stick with that feeling....sometimes we are best to move on from them in order that they can grow. My sis and mum, unfortunately choose this path....their faith in God is albeit non existant at times....and it shows....

Its lovely to be amongst others who have and keep the faith....

posted May 31, 2006 05:22 PM         

I am not sure why I didn't see this sooner. I am so sorry for your loss and the pain that is being endured by you and your family. Children are remarkable in that they somehow find a reason to blame themselves when terrible situations happen (such as parents divorce, abandonment and suicide) when it has nothing to do with them or anything they have done.

That has to be also affecting you, knowing their tender ages and their pain. Personally, I have never known anyone that has comitted suicide, but I can see how one can be driven to such drastic measures. My heart and prayers are with you Mirandee.

Zala said:

"My ex used to threaten suicide, and once even tried slitting his wrists, but I don't think he really wanted to leave this plane quite yet. And he refused to seek "help" of any sort."

posted May 31, 2006 06:59 PM         

That's very true, Pid kids do blame themselves and that is a worry here, especially for Tracy and her daughter Alexandria whose other granfather committed suicide last year. That has to affect her greatly.

I liked that article, Pix Good reminder to try and keep the joy of childhood in our lives.

You are a true gem, Fayte. I can just see you out in your yard with the bubble gun and flying kites. I know you have a positive outlook on life because you have overcome much more than most of us and look at where you are today! Kudos to you dear friend. You are a living testimony of the strength of the human will to overcome.

Our grand kids help to keep us young at heart. They have made Christamas, Easter and all the holidays full of childhood excitement again for us. There were a lot of years between the time our kids grew up and married that we missed doing those things we used to do when they were kids but now we get to do it all over again.

Pidaua, sorry to hear you went through that twice in your life with your mom and your ex-husband. It's terrible to use that threat as a means of control. But now it looks like you finally found Mr. Right and are very happy. You deserve that happiness after what you have been through.

posted May 31, 2006 07:20 PM         

My ex-hubby was the Commander of forensic services for a large county. He would have to go to suicide scenes to verify the person was not the victim of homicide. The pics were horrible...

Thank you Mirandee for your encouragement. I hadn't realized it was abuse until I had gone through marriage counseling with my ex. We had one on one times with the therapist and he gave me an "abuse" wheel which described how people use the threat of suicide to control another person.

Oddly enough, Mr. Leo's ex-wife used to threaten him that she would kill herself as well. He admitted it freaked him out for the longest time until he realized how she was using it for control.

Ick.. never have to worry about that again.

posted May 31, 2006 09:13 PM         

Some of the best people I know happen to be athiests. You do not need to believe in God to be a good, loving, compassionate person.

A lot of people who are rarely sad about the state of the world are like that because they don't even posess the *sensitivity* to feel true sadness. (I don't think that of you, though).

Is it so intolerable that I occasionally feel overwhelmed by the state of the world? Or that maybe your mom or sister does, too? If you've never walked in our shoes.....well, you know how the saying goes.

I won't reject someone because they aren't Suzy Sunshine and they don't re-affirm my own beliefs about life. Of course, it is your choice to associate and spend time with who you see fit. I know that I'm lucky to have people in my life who love me and who can see the goodness in me even though I'm not religious, I'm not cheery, and I don't have a perfect attitude.

Mirandee~ I am so sorry for what you've been through

posted May 31, 2006 10:56 PM         

I agree with what you said here regarding atheists. Some of the best people I have known are atheists or agnostics and some of the worse people I have known are those who profess to believe in God. Though of course there are bad apples in all factions of life.

No, you don't have to believe in God to be a good, loving, compassionate person. Some people who do believe in God show anything but love and compassion. They can be some of the most judgmental people on the planet. In fact sometimes I think that if we ruled out religion and politics there would be no more wars and people would live in peace. Of course, it isn't the fault of religion. Some people just don't wear religion well. It's the fault of people. What we are as people, whatever our hangups are we bring into religion and an awful lot of people use religion as a means of control. Sad but true.

I also agree with what you stated about it being okay to not be upbeat and perky all the time. In fact people like that get on my nerves because life is just not like that so they have to be putting on an act. Either that or they are complete air heads. No one is positive all the time. We all feel down and negative about things at times. Admitting it is just being real.

We are all different and we all have something to add to the world. I don't choose my friends by their attitude or temperment either. I have a fairly positive attitude about life on the most part and my husband is a true pessimist. So we kind of balance each other out that way.

My asc. is cancer so you know I am bound to be up and down in my moods.