posted June 01, 2006 03:12 AM         

One of the best people I know and love the most is an aethiest.....my Dad.

And i am sorry you read me wrong.....I meant to say I spent so much time in the past around negative people who didnt want to move on that for my own health and sanity, I had to become very selective in who I associate with...as I am of a very sensitive nature...

I am not talking about people who get down and depressed here, I am referring to the ones that insist on the "poor me" syndrome, they just get stuck in that rut. God almighty I am one of the most moodiest people on this earth, but I do try and move on if I can. Being a Scorp, I tend to hide a little too when I am down

Didnt meanto offend you girl....at all....

After all I too have been suicidal and have walked down that path, its just that my faith in God has helped me....but of course, you are right....not everyone has to be a believer.

But if I am honest, I would love to think that all of us felt or believed in something of a spiritual nature cos (for me), theres nothing else like it....

posted June 01, 2006 05:33 AM         

Does anyone want to swap my Aries rising for say.....maybe their Libra rising....

Am beginning to feel that those Aries placements can be a curse at times ......and am now beginning to realise why for all those years I clashed with my Aries Daddy.....albeit that harmony now prevails between us....and deep deep love.....

He was the one that told me an act of apology is a brave and courageous one.....so I thought it only fitting that I heed his very wise words.

He also told me to always keep my messages short and sweet or else people may get bored (Aries impatience hahaha).

posted June 01, 2006 07:58 AM         

I just wanted to make sure....I didnt offend.....

Am sure you are wonderful too girl...am sure you are !!

posted June 01, 2006 08:44 AM         

Sue....I love seeing your posts in LL. It would not be the same place without you.

posted June 01, 2006 11:09 AM         

And.....

Thanks...

posted June 01, 2006 11:16 AM         

To Mirandee,

I did not mean to imply that the survivors
are to blame for their lack of empathy
(or perceived lack of empathy),
although, I agree, there is a stigma around that
which I had not considered,
and may have inadvertently contributed to in my post.

Thank you for bringing that to my attention.
I apologize if my alternately
too-personal and too-impersonal tone
offended you, or anyone else.
This is an issue that is close to my heart,
and all too often on my mind.

To Lynx,

I enjoyed reading what you wrote
(although "enjoyed" might be the wrong word),
and I sincerely hope things continue
to get better and better for you.

Scorpionic Web -

For a fuller version of that quote,
see my post.

~ hsc

posted June 01, 2006 11:21 AM         

The Suicide's Song

So its back once more
back up the slope
why do they always ruin my rope
with their cuts?

I felt so ready the other day
had a real foretaste of eternity in my guts

Spoonfeeding me yet another sip
from life's cup
I dont want it,
wont take any more of it,
let me throw up!

Life is medium-rare and good I see
And the world is full of soup and bread
but it wont pass into the blood for me
just goes to my head

It makes me sick
though others it feeds
do see that i must deny it!
For a thousand years from now, at least,
I'm keeping a diet.

~ Rainer Maria Rilke

posted June 01, 2006 11:34 AM         

quote:

---

I also think that those who do love and see the world through the eyes of spirituality do suffer more than those who never give those things a thought. The closer we draw to God the more the evil of this world will throw at us because evil cannot bear good and will attempt to destroy it.

---

I wonder about this often.
I am not convinced it is true.
I suspect, rather, that we create spiritual laws
through our own belief in them.

Perhaps, because people have believed, for many generations,
that suffering must accompany consciousness expansion,
this belief has taken root in our collective unconscious,
and thoroughly colored our experiences of reality.

I do not know, but it is something to consider.

I have also heard New Age teachings
that suggest that this was once the case,
but, that the polarizing dynamics of energies
have shifted in the past few decades or so,
and, now, we can expect that good vibes
will attract other good vibes
rather than continue to polarize the bad.

Whether this is now the case, or not,
I suspect that it would prove beneficial
to believe, and live, as if this were the case.

Otherwise, if we contunue to associate
spiritual awareness with sufferring,
we could conceivably create a great deal
of unnecessary stress and resistance in our spiritual lives and journeys.
We may even seek indirect ways punish and torment ourselves,
in the belief that this is conducive to,
or indicative of, our spiritual progress.

But, again, I remain unconvinced of either view,
and my first concern is just keeping an open mind.

~ S

posted June 01, 2006 11:51 AM         

Interesting points there....

I find the more faith I gain and the closer to God I become, the more pureness I feel coming into my life and the amount of negativity is very small, in fact here in Ireland non-existant..

Maybe its a matter of self protection or what you give you get back....

Different for everyone I suppose, but all I know is the more I pray, trust and love.....the more things of a positiive nature comes back at me.....

posted June 01, 2006 12:15 PM         

"Nobody knows where you are,
how near or how far." - Roger Waters

Or, it could easily be a matter of
each of us requiring different experiences
in order to learn different lessons
(or, perhaps, to learn the same lessons,
in different and individual ways).

We should remember that lessons are easily "over-learned";
that, by the time the pendulum has reached dead center,
we are often so convinced its direction is right,
that we continue to "progress" to the opposite extreme.
In our momentum and enthusiasm for having found a truth,
we neglect to consider its opposite,
and believe we have found THE truth.

But then, perhaps this too
is a necessary part of our spiritual education.

~hsc

posted June 01, 2006 01:09 PM         

I got so much out of your views and the dicussion between you and DayDreamer. So please do not regret anything you said.

I don't feel that spirituality and suffering go hand in hand. That is not what I meant to imply at all. Spirituality just helps us to be aware that there is a battle between good and evil in this world and if anything, the closer we grow to God the more hope we have that it will be overcome with love and all that is good. Therefore it doesn't get us down.

I am not convinced that there is an entity of evil that exists such as Satan or demons. I think that battle between good and evil comes from the same battle or struggle that is taking place in all of humanity and is manifested outwardly onto the world. We cannot look around the world and not know that such a battle or struggle exists and has existed since the beginning of creation. It is in fact the theme of all movies, all novels ever written and all wars ever waged with both sides thinking they represent the good.

I like the Suicide's Song poem. It says much about the frame of mind that exists in those who want to end it all.

Gooberz, I'm doing fine. Thanks for asking. You and all those here have helped me so much that I'm working through this shock and grief much faster than I could have hoped for when I posted this.

posted June 01, 2006 01:23 PM         

I'm grateful for this timely topic. I've recently lost someone (an Uncle) to suicide as well.
So, I've been listening in, although not yet ready to verbalize, as I was still sorting through the questions and feelings.

I believe that contemplation of suicide is natural to being alive and human. In dark and helpless times, it's natural for the exit sign to flash before us, even if as a temporary fanatasy of escape.
We've been granted the miracle of life,as we have simultaneously been given the choice of death. In helpless times especially, it's understandable that we would recognize whatever power we have.

I think it is a unique experience for everyone. Everyone's reasons will be different, so all we can do is wonder, as we will naturally wonder, but beyond that, it isn't right of us to judge. For all we know, the reasons could be noble ones.

I emapthize with the wondering, presenting from this thread, in just what aids or prevents us in 'pulling the trigger'. My heart goes out to many of the posters here. So many inspiring, moving and insightful responses.
I'm thankful for all your sharing.

posted June 01, 2006 01:23 PM         

You will not always receive validation for your giving. Nor receive positive from positive. If you are thinking of giving returned from giving, life will disappoint you. If you are basing your happiness on what is returned,instead of purely giving because it is your nature and you are moved to do so...if your self-worth is coming from validation outside of yourself...well, isn't that placing your vulnerable heart up for surrender?

Life isn't always fair...although I do believe goodness prevails in the end, even if it isn't recognized at the time. Sometimes not until it is realized from a contemplated nostaligia or at a future time when events unfold and truths are finally revealed. It's a crazy blind faith that keeps us going at times. Faith is the most critical thing for the human spirit. And as so crucial, will be continuously tested for its strength. Perhaps even, the more faith you attain, the more it will be tested.

I believe the entire 'postive from positive' new age concept, although lovely in its aesthetic appeal, is unrealistic. And also, I don't believe it's a compassionate enforcement for those who may be at a crucial time in their lives, when the very reasons they may be feeling on that hopeless edge are that they have been giving much love,being honest and true, pure and good, yet the harsher realities of life's unfairness is what they are receiving.

Although it is true often as well. I think we all have experienced the joy felt when our positives have been well-received and returned in full measure. It's a blissful, comforting feeling. Hopeful.
There is much truth in the power of creation...the power of the spirit and mind.
In energy.

But in this world, we are swirling in an enormous mass of energy, and often the most innocent of hearts, are inflicted with energy they haven't created themselves.

It seems an exclusive, judging and subjective view to me..... like a 'as long as I am happy and fine and receiving, than all is well' attitude which isn't very considerate to others who may be suffering a present misfortune.

It seems blaming. Blaming them for the misfortune, as if they brought it on themselves, for not being postitive enough, or loving enough. How does that help, but only perpetuate their misery?

I wish my uncle had given others the opportunity to love him and show him compassion...but in his isolation, and his lack of hope, he didn't give them the chance.
He built walls...
others couldn't be faulted for not being intuitive enough.

posted June 01, 2006 03:52 PM         

Lia!
I know.
You know how I feel about you. No need to get all mushy here.
Simply put...
To you both my dear ones,

Yes...moving on is a good thing! And the poor woe woe whining is indeed tiring to hear over and over.

But it is Not a matter of "IF"....

Either do it or not.

Walking the talk means alot more then just giving it lip service.
Just saying it is not the same as doing it!

To moving on for REAL, not just trying to or giving it lip service!

posted June 01, 2006 05:55 PM         

Hahahaha, sh*t.

I had a strange gut feeling while posting the Camus quote that someone else would possibly type it.

So, I skimmed over all the posts trying to catch any quotations. I guess I didn't look close enough.

posted June 01, 2006 08:05 PM         

I liked your post and all that you said so much, Lia. You truly have a beautiful soul and so much insight.

quote:

---

You will not always receive validation for your giving. Nor receive positive from positive. If you are thinking of giving returned from giving, life will disappoint you. If you are basing your happiness on what is returned,instead of purely giving because it is your nature and you are moved to do so...if your self-worth is coming from validation outside of yourself...well, isn't that placing your vulnerable heart up for surrender?

---

YES!!! Those who truly love do not expect anything in return although it is always nice when you get it, but not what you should be seeking. Just love for the sake of love and expect nothing in return. Certainly not validation because that comes from within ourselves. It is futile to seek your self-worth and validation in anyone or anything other than yourself. It can never come from another source outside ourselves. To seek it that way is really setting yourself up for constant disappointment and heartache.

quote:

---

I believe the entire 'postive from positive' new age concept, although lovely in its aesthetic appeal, is unrealistic. And also, I don't believe it's a compassionate enforcement for those who may be at a crucial time in their lives, when the very reasons they may be feeling on that hopeless edge are that they have been giving much love,being honest and true, pure and good, yet the harsher realities of life's unfairness is what they are receiving.

---

I feel the same way about positive from positive and negative from negative. It isn't even realistic in the scientific realm where in magnetism, positive and positive do not connect, instead they repel one another. Positive energy does not, as you say, necessarily attract positive in life, often it can and does attract negative and no, it's hardly fair to attempt enforcement for someone on the brink of suicide to be told that. It would be like blaming them for being a failure and you have to be feeling like a failure at life anyway to commit suicide.

This is what I was attempting to explain in that the more spiritual we are becoming we begin to see things from a different perspective than those who never think of these things. We see the world and others with new eyes and often, that can weigh us down heavily when what we see in the world does not match up to what we know it should be and what we receive from others does not match up to the good we try to do in the world. We will often be misunderstood and misjudged. We have to have hope that every good we do, every attempt we make to try and create a better world, will have an effect but we may not ever see the results in our lifetime. We should keep doing our thing anyway with the hope it will eventually make a difference.

Faith and hope are needed to get through this life. No one ever promised that life was going to be a rose garden. Every thing is this world is transient. Love is enduring, faith is enduring, hope is enduring.

posted June 01, 2006 08:18 PM         

quote:

---

Walking the talk means alot more then just giving it lip service.
Just saying it is not the same as doing it!

---

No it isn't, Fayte. We can't move forward if we continue to look backwards. It's like walking backwards. It doesn't get us anywhere.

Moving on means letting go of what happened in the past. We can't move on if we keep reliving the past or rehashing it.

posted June 04, 2006 01:20 AM         

quote:

---

We will often be misunderstood and misjudged. We have to have hope that every good we do, every attempt we make to try and create a better world, will have an effect but we may not ever see the results in our lifetime. We should keep doing our thing anyway with the hope it will eventually make a difference.

---

Yes. It's a difficult faith to hold at times, especially the times when all seems to be working against your most loving intentions and hopes. I think that suicide may start with a heartbreak, or a disappointment, and the weight of the sorrow turns your focus naturally inwards. The pain can expand and snow-ball further into a hopelessness in all mankind that can see no change.
Life is cycles, of highs and lows, but in that low depth, the next high cycle cannot be fathomed. If only it were ridden out, we might see all of our efforts of loving and caring held meaning, gently rippling outwards, which only needed time to stir a wave.

It takes endurance, patience and a faith, against all odds, sometimes to survive here, on this sometimes harsh and hostile planet.

I always admire modest people, who quietly go about their way, touching with the most loving and compassionate givings, yet never pronouncing their deeds. They keep doing, without recognition, without validation or confirmation. Are they more intune with understanding the cycles of time?

For those who are unaware of Anne Sexton, she was an extrordinary poet who took her own life. I believe this was one of her last writings~

For The Year of the Insane

a prayer

O, Mary, fragile mother,
hear me, hear me now
although I do not know
your words.
The black rosary
with its silver christ
lied unblessed in my hands,
for I am the unbeliever.
Each beed is round and
hard between my fingers,
a small black angel.
O,mary, permit me this grace,
this crossing over,
although I am ugly,
submerged in my own past
and my own madness.

Although there are chairs
I lie on the floor.
Only my hands are alive,
touching beads.
Word for word, I stumble,
a beginner, I feel your
mouth touch mine.
I count beads as waves,
hammering in upon me.
I am ill at their numbers,
sick, sick in the summer heat,
and the window above me
is my only listener,
my awkward being.
She is a large taker, a soother.
The giver of breath
she murmers,
exhaling her wide lung
like an enormous fish.

Closer and closer
comes the hour of my death
as I rearrange my face,
grow back,
grow undeveloped and
straight-haired.
All this is death.
In the mind there is a
thin alley called death,
and I move through it
as through water.
My body is useless.
It lies, curled up like
a dog on a carpet.
It has given up.
There are no words here
except the half-learned,
the "Hail Mary" and the
"full of grace".
Now I have entered the year
without words.
I note the queer entrance
and the exact voltage.
Without words they exist.
Without words one may
touch bread
and be handed bread
and make no sound.

O Mary, tender physician,
come with powders and herbs
for I am in the center.
It is very small and
the air is grey
as in a steam house.
I am handed wine as a
child is handed milk.
It is presented in a
delicate glass
with a round bowl and a thin lip.
The wine itself is pitch-colored,
musty and secret.
The glass rises on its own
toward my mouth
and I notice this
and understand this
only because it has
happened.

I have this fear of coughing
but I do not speak,
a fear of rain,
a fear of the horseman
who comes riding into
my mouth.
The glass tilts in on its own
and I am on fire.
I see two thin streaks
burn down my chin.
I see myself as one
would see another.
I have been cut in two.

O Mary, open your eyelids.
I am in the domain
of silence,
the kingdom of the crazy
and the sleeper.
The blood is here
and I have eaten it.
O mother of the womb,
did I come for blood alone?
O little mother,
I am in my own mind.

I am locked in the
wrong house.

posted June 05, 2006 12:45 AM         

I liked it so much that I did a search on Anne Sexton. I was curious as to how she killed herself. Here is what I found:

1928-1974
Anne Sexton

Anne Gray Harvey was born November 9, 1928 in Weston, Mass. to Mary Gray Staples Harvey and Ralph Churchill Harvey. The youngest of three sisters, Anne was the baby of the family, always craving attention and loving to be held. Growing up, Anne saw her eldest sister, Jane, become Daddy's girl, while her other sister Blanche, became reknown as the smart one of the three, loving to read and the only one to go to college. Her parents moving to Wellesley, Mass., Anne attended public schools from the time she was 6 until she was 17. At the age of 17, her parents sent her off to Rogers Hall, a preparatory school for girls, in Lowell, Mass.; hoping to 'cure' her of her wild nature and shape her into a proper woman. It was here that Anne first began to write poetry, which was published in the school yearbook. Yet shortly after beginning the call she had, her mother, who had come from a family of writers, accused Anne of plagiarism, disbelieving that her daughter could posess the talent to write such lovely poetry. Continuing on with the refinement of her womanhood, Anne attended the Garland School in Boston, a finishing school for women. It was here that she met and eloped with Alfred Muller Sexton II, whom everbody called Kayo. Kayo and Anne moved to Hamilton, New York, where Kayo was attending Colgate, University. Unable to afford making a living and supporting a wife, Kayo decided that they should move back to Massachusetts. Upon moving back, Anne enrolled in a modeling class at the Hart Agency, completing the course and going on to model for the agency for a short period of time. Meanwhile, Kayo had joined the naval reserve and had been shipped out on the USS Boxer to Korea. In 1952, Kayo came home for a year after the Boxer received war damage. It was during this time that Anne and Kayo conceived their first child. In July 1953, shortly after Kayo had been shipped out again, Anne gave birth to Linda Gray Sexton. Later that year Kayo was discharged and he returned home where he and Anne purchased a home in Newton Lower Falls, Massachusetts, not far from either of their parents.
In 1954, Anne began struggling with recurring depression and began seeking counseling. During the time of her counseling she and Kayo gave birth to their second child, Joyce Ladd Sexton, whom they nicknamed Joy. Beginning in 1956, Annes mental condition worstened, leading up to her first psychiatric hospitalization and her first suicide attempt. In December of that year, under the guidance of her psychiatrist, Dr. Martin, she resumed writing poetry. Finding therapeutic value in her writing, she enrolled in John Holme's poetry workshop, where she met Maxine Kumin. Yet falling, once again into a deep depression, Anne attempted suicide again in May, 1957. Again hospitalized, she continued to write poetry and in August received a scholarship to Antioch Writers' Conference, where she met W. D. Snodgrass. In 1958, Anne enrolled in Robert Lowell's graduate writing seminar at Boston University, where she met Sylvia Plath and George Starbuck. In 1959, she was awarded the Audience Poetry Prize. With this award Anne began work to publish the first of her books of poetry entitled To Bedlam and Part Way Back. The publisment of this book spurred Anne to keep writing and led to national recognition of her work. Following her first book, Anne published her second book,in 1962, entitled All My Pretty Ones. Following the release of this work, Anne continued her success by working on four children's books with her longtime friend Maxine Kumin. During the span of August 22 to October 27, 1963, Anne toured Europe on a travelling fellowship from the American Academy of Arts and Letters. Despite enjoying the trip, Anne returned a month early due to an emotional disturbance. Nineteen sixty-four proved to be an interesting year in Anne's clinical life as her longtime psychiatrist moved his practice to Philadelphia, and she began seeing a new psychiatrist who started Anne on the drug, Thorazine, to control her on going depression and hospitalizatizations. In 1965, she was elected a Fellow of the Royal Society of Literature in London. Following this award she published her Pulitzer-prize winning book entitled Live or Die, in 1966. Continuing writing and teaching English literature at Wayland, Mass. High School, in June 1968 Anne was awarded honorary Phi Beta Kappa from Harvard becoming the first woman ever to join the 187-year-old chapter. Beginning in 1969, Anne published her book entitled Love Poems, following this book she continued work on her play Mercy Street until the fall where she began teaching a poetry seminar at Boston University. The success of her seminar led to her appointment as a lecturer at Boston University,in 1970 and her eventual award of full professorship, in 1972.

Despite her success as a writer, poet, and playwright, Anne's personal life took a sudden plunge in 1973, where she was hospitalized three times and received a divorce from her husband during the course of the year. Surviving much of the following year, Anne managed to bring her final works to a conclusion with the publishment of The Death Notebooks, a completed final editing of The Awful Rowing Toward God, and a tentative arrangement of poems in 45 Mercy Street. The conclusiveness of the works seemed to Anne to be a proper stopping point. Following her last poetry reading at Goucher College in Maryland on October 3, 1974, Anne returned home to commit suicide in her garage on October 4, 1974 by way of carbon monoxide poisoning. The tragic end she brought to her life was the result of several years of battling depression and dissatisfaction with her place in life. Despite this truth, she carved a place in the minds and hearts of the American literary world forever.

In recent days, the release of Diane Wood Middlebrook's biography of Anne Sexton's life has caused controversy in the circles of certain groups of psychiatrists and moralists. The controversy centers around Middlebrook's decision to include within her biography, excerpts from tapes recorded during Anne's therapy sessions. The tapes were released to Middlebrook under the strict permission of Anne's daughter, Linda Gray Sexton who authorized Middlebrook to utilize all resources that she had to construct a thourough biography of Anne's life. Though the controversy is real to many, the question of doctor-patient confidentiality has done little to hurt the success of the biography in the eyes of the general public.

posted June 05, 2006 12:49 AM         

New York Times 15 July 1991

Poet Told All; Therapist Provides the Record

By ALESSANDRA STANLEY

When the poet Anne Sexton began writing in the late 1950's, those intensely autobiographical poems about her mental breakdowns, erotic fantasies and preoccupation with death brought her overnight acclaim, and some criticism, as a "confessional poet." As Sexton said, rather proudly at the peak of her popularity in 1969, " I hold back nothing."

Neither did her psychiatrist. "Ann Sexton," to be published by Houghton Mifflin in September, is the first serious examination of Sexton's life and work since her suicide in 1974. It is also the first known time a biography of a major American figure relies on material taken from the subject's private therapy sessions with a psychiatrist.

The author of "Anne Sexton," Diane Wood Middlebrook, was given medical records, unpublished early poems and more than 300 audiotapes of sessions the poet had with Dr. Martin T. Orne, a psychiatrist who treated her from 1956 to 1964 and who first encouraged her to write poetry.

Details of Madness and Abuse

His action has caused far more consternation in literary and more particularly psychiatric circles than any other revelation in the book, which chronicles in sometimes harrowing detail Sexton's madness, alcoholism and sexual abuse of her daughter, along With her many extramarital affairs, including one with a woman and another with the second of her many therapists.

Dr. Willard Gaylin, a Columbia University psychiatry professor and an expert on medical ethics, said, "Doctors have no obligation to history and certainly should not act as a research assistant to a biographer." He described Dr. Orne's action as a betrayal of his patient "and his profession."

Though Sexton left no instructions about what should be done with the tape recordings of her therapy sessions, Dr. Orne as well as Sexton's children and friends have said she would have agreed to their release.

"I have no question that she would have jumped at the opportunity to share what we did," Dr. Orne said in a recent interview. The Philadelphia- based psychiatrist, who wrote a foreword to the biography explaining his cooperation, added, "I was often more concerned about her privacy than she was."

Yet even though Dr. Orne acted with the permission of Sexton's literary executor, her daughter Linda Gray Sexton, his decision has shocked many of his colleagues, who say they view it as an unconscionable breach of medical ethics.

"A patient's right to confidentiality survives death," said Dr. Jeremy A. Lazarus, the chairman of the ethics committee of the American Psychiatric Association. "Our view is that only the patient can give that release. What the family wants does not matter a whit."

Until recently, families were better known for destroying private papers than for releasing them. Stephen Joyce, the grandson of James Joyce, burned letters written by Joyce's daughter, Lucia. Ted Hughes, the poet and husband of Sylvia Plath, has said he destroyed parts of Plath's diary to spare the feelings of their children. But as even serious biographers show an ever-growing interest in uncovering their subjects' most private torments, or what Joyce Carol Oates has labeled pathography, relatives have begun taking it upon themselves to do the revealing. Linda Gray Sexton, who said she selected Ms. Middlebrook to write the book, did so for some of the same reasons that the children of John Cheever unveiled the secrets of their father's private life.

"Our inclination is to let everything out," said John Cheever's son, Ben, who has prepared his father's journals for publication in the fall. "But we want to be in control of it."

'How Could I Cover It Up?'

Ms. Sexton said, "I retained the right to discuss and veto material if I felt I couldn't bear it." Though she said she found much of it "extremely painful," she said she concluded that full disclosure was necessary. "I sometimes wonder if Mother is angry with me," Ms. Sexton said. "She might have preferred to be seen as a tragic victim. My feeling was: 'Look, Mom, you wrote about this stuff. You lived it in public. How could I cover it up?' " Ms. Middlebrook, a professor of English at Stanford University, said she spent 10 years researching Sexton's life and work. After listening to the tapes, a task that took two years, she completely rewrote the manuscript, she said. "I never thought they still existed," Ms. Middlebrook said of the tapes. "I was quite amazed when he offered to do this." The tapes, which Dr. Orne volunteered during an interview, did not provide her with vital new information, she said. Instead, Ms. Middlebrook said, she found "more confirming evidence than revelation." Sexton's incestuous behavior toward her daughter, which is among the more disturbing details in the book, was revealed by Linda Gray Sexton.

Ms. Middlebook said she had no qualms about using the tapes. "I don't think Anne Sexton cared what was known about her private life," she said. "She just didn't want to be known as a bad artist."

Reserving Some Privacy

Among the heaps of letters and memorabilia she had carefully hoarded for posterity, Sexton placed only a few of her earliest poems off the record, in a folder marked, "Not to be seen by anybody." Ms. Middlebrook chose not to reprint any of those, though she did cite some of the early, tentative poems Sexton had written about therapy that she found in Dr. Orne's files.

Few of Sexton's close friends faulted Dr. Orne or Ms. Middlebrook. The poet Maxine Kumin said she found the biography of her close friend "very balanced and judicious." She described Dr. Orne's decision as "gutsy," and dismissed the objections of Dr. Orne's colleagues as "pietistic."

"Those same doctors would never have taken on a patient as demanding as Anne," she said scornfully. "They just want nice, mannerly depressives."

J. D. McClatchy, a poet and critic who edited "Anne Sexton, the Artist and Her Critics," said of Dr. Orne, "There is something a little sleazy about the way he has put himself forward as her Pygmalion." But Mr. McClatchy said he did not blame the biographer for using the material. "Imagine if we suddenly found tapes of the psychiatric sessions of Virgina Woolf," he said. "Who would not want to listen?"

Yet other biographers uneasily spoke of the conflict between a writer's need to gather all information about a subject and a doctor's duty to safeguard a patient's privacy.

'Like the Confessional'

When Winston Chuchill's personal physician, Lord Moran, wrote a biography revealing the severity of Churchill's stroke in the 1950's, his colleagues said they were appalled by what they regarded as a breach of the physician-patient relationship. "I used it," Anthony Storr, an English psychiatrist who has written about the creative process, said of Lord Moran's book. "It was very interesting. But I could never do it." Therapy, he said, "is like the confessional."

There have been other psychiatrists who have discussed their pa- tients with biographers. A few psychiatrists who treated the artist Jack- son Pollock, for example, spoke openly to the biographers Steven Naifeh and Gregory White Smith. Scott McDonald, who wrote an unauthorized biography of John Cheever, said he omitted a diagnosis propounded by one of the writer's psychiatrists, whom he described as "reckless."

Peter Gay, a Sterling Professor of History at Yale University who underwent psychoanalytic training to write a biography of Sigmund Freud, put it this way: "As a biographer, I was voracious and angry at anyone who withheld things, but I would despise any analyst willing to do this."

Barbara Schwartz, a psychiatric social worker who treated Sexton until her death, also discussed the poet with Ms. Middlebrook, but she did not release her notebooks or medical records. Ms. Schwartz said that she did not fault Dr. Orne, but added that she could not follow his example "because that was a private piece of the therapy."

Psychatrist Explains His Actions

Dr. Orne said he felt his insights about Sexton's therapy would inspire and help other troubled people. "Her life shows what can be done," he said of the uses of therapy. "How a gifted person who was nowhere could, with some help, become an outstanding poet. "

When Sexton first came to see Dr. Orne, she was a deeply depressed suburban Boston housewife with suicidal tendencies. He persuaded her to write down her feelings as a way of helping other mentally disturbed people. Years later, Sexton described helping others as "my little reason to go on."

Because Sexton suffered severe memory lapses, states of fugue she called "trances," Dr. Orne took the unorthodox step of recording their sessions from 1961 to 1964 so Sexton could listen to them afterward to try to recall what she had revealed in therapy.

She turned into a successful poet almost immediately after beginning to write, becoming one of the most prominent and flamboyant members of a close-knit literary community in Boston that included Robert Lowell, Sylvia Plath, W. D. Snodgrass and Ms. Kumin. Sexton's poetry won a Pulitzer Prize in 1967; her lean good looks, theatrical despair and insatiable thirst for attention made her a cult figure.

"Mother was like wallpaper," her younger daughter, Joyce Ladd Sexton, said ruefully. "She plastered herself all other the walls."

Sexton never fully recovered from her mental illness, Ms. Middlebrook's book states. Dr. Orne, who moved to Philadelphia from Boston in 1964, said of Sexton, "When I left, she was in quite good shape."

Bitterness About an Affair

Dr. Orne said he believed that the therapy Sexton received thereafter did her far more harm than good.

He said he was particularly bitter about the actions of Sexton's second psychiatrist, who he said had an affair with Sexton. The liaison is examined in some detail in the biography. The book does not identify him by name.

Dr. Orne said when he learned of the affair, he intervened and instructed Sexton and the therapist to stop. He did not, however, denounce the therapist to the medical ethics board, he said. " I didn't want to ruin the career," Dr. Orne said. "Today, I might have done it differently."

That psychiatrist, Dr. Frederick J. Duhl, who now practices family therapy in Boston, refused to discuss the book's allegations, which were corroborated by Sexton's relatives and friends. "I am not going to comment," he said in a telephone interview. "You are dealing with an explosive subject: basically any doctor who has an affair with a patient loses his license in Massachusetts."

Ms. Schwartz, the psychiatric social 'worker, said that when she first began treating Sexton in 1973 the poet ad asked her to accompany her to a conference the psychiatrist was to speak at. "She wanted to stand up here and say, 'J'accuse!' " Ms. Schwartz said. "I felt I could not go to that meeting and let her expose herself that way."

posted June 05, 2006 12:56 AM         

She was a Scorpio.....

i have known of quite a few Plutonians who have wanted to take their life, (incluidng me),,,and a few on this board no doubt.....

posted June 05, 2006 08:09 PM         

the best way is to aqcuire
a prescription of valium or xanax,
take enough to induce a deep sleep,
and tie a plastic bag over your head.

after that, you're golden.

maybe.

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