posted December 19, 2006 11:38 AM         

If you wanna hear some GREAT music drop me a line at martianmaiden2000@yahoo.co.uk and I'll point you in the direction of my myspace. Have fun. Ta ta!

AT

posted December 19, 2006 12:38 PM         

quote:

---

But then, of course, you can only help those who want to help themselves.

---

I disagree. I consider myself a champion of what many people would term "lost causes". Sometimes, it is possible to help a person who appears not to want to help themselves. I think everyone wants to help themselves, they just dont have hope that it is possible and/or worth the effort. You can strengthen that desire by encouraging hope. You can do this by providing a hopeful example. And you can combat the laziness by not overwhelming them with more than one thing at a time. You can help them in spite of themselves, in any number of ways, and they may see the results, and take over from there. Anything is possible. But you have to find a way in. People put up so much resistance to change. Some people build their lives around resisting change. You have to be tactful and sensitive. You have to earn their trust, and be both firm and gentle in guiding them. You must be capable of persuading and reminding them of what is in their own best interests. In short, you have to be a very skilled healer. But, it it not impossible.

The people in most desperate need of help are precisely those people who are incapable of helping themselves. Unwillingness is just one form of incapacity. I realize that is an unpopular view (it is far more popular these days to blame people when their problems exist within themselves, rather than in the world - although, in reality, they have even less power over what goes on within; - the power they manage to exert upon the world is only a dim reflection of the power they have over themselves), but I believe it will gain popularity over the next few hundred years. You can remove all the outer obstacles, but, unless you inspire the will, then, the goal may as well be lightyears away, surrounded by demons. On the other hand, a will infused with enough inspiration can overcome any external obstacle; any distance, and any number of demons.

hsc

posted December 19, 2006 01:44 PM         

It makes you look at everything differnetly...neptune is young enough to be my child....and I would feel for her if she was getting treated this way.

Motherhood, for some, softens, brings in more compassion..........hopefully.....

Come here to me neptune and let me give you a big warm ((((((((((((hug))))))))))

AG....do you want one too.....(((((((((hug))))))

posted December 19, 2006 03:11 PM         

AG: You and I should just run off together.

HSC: You and I would make a heavily uranus influenced couple.

Pixelpixie: You and I have some really nice Jupiter aspects.

And Eddie Vedder and I... well, shame we'll never meet.

Who's next? Just admit it...

_______________________________________
Scorpio sun, venus, mars, mercury, and uranus
Libra moon, pluto, and asc.

posted December 19, 2006 05:00 PM         

(me being the exception, and my rule on that is, why rule out ALL of Gods creation, and just be selfish and focus on yourself, thats what I think is really selfish about Dogma and the Catholic Church and religion in general, its really self-focused, theres no enlightenment, which I know we all need.)

posted December 19, 2006 05:11 PM         

quote:

---

I don't know about the harsh judgment myself. I'm somewhat indifferent about neptune5, but I'm certain that the things pointed out on all sides can be true, and exist within one person. Why can't a person be a little celebrity-obsessed, while also being astrology-obsesssed, while also being fashion-obsessed, while also being a humanitarian? (Leave out the astrology and P. Diddy or Donald Trump could fit this description). I don't see any of those things as mutually exclusive. I think Sue's right to a degree as well with regard to cutting her at least a little slack for her age.

---

I do think, considering my age and lack of experience, the harsh judgement wasn't reasonable, but does anyone think it may have to do with some sort of unrelated subconcious motivation?

posted December 19, 2006 05:19 PM         

(i tried to refrain from asking that question, but you have such a gorgeous mind I couldn't resist. )

posted December 19, 2006 05:44 PM         

The only other reason that I would theorize comes from my own brain and experience (so it may be completely innaccurate). There are just some people who annoy me who seem to wreck threads that they post in (as least as far as my experience with that thread goes). Recently we lost one of those people, and I didn't even comment there, but I was secretly pleased. In my experience with you, I've seen you post lots of asteroid topics where you ask people's placements, but the thread goes nowhere because there's no good interpretation given, so the thread ends up meaning (in practical terms) just about nothing. (I stopped going in those threads after a while, so if that changed let me know) When you talk about nothing it's seen as superficial to a degree.

posted December 19, 2006 06:18 PM         

quote:

---

does anyone think it may have to do with some sort of unrelated subconcious motivation?

---

Yes.
All negativity springs from unrelated subconscious motivations.
To be truly conscious is to be loving and nonjudgmental.

posted December 20, 2006 01:16 AM         

When we are young it is up to our parents (primarily) to guide us in life so we don't fall into the negative (extreme) versions of those feelings precisely due to immaturity.. Our childhood and teen years are the years in which we learn most about the world around us and our personalities are shaped, therefore they are very important years.

It is a hard task for parents sometimes. If they are too lenient and give in too much, they run the risk of turning the child into a spoilt brat.. or if they are too strict the child can grow up to be overly inhibited and lack confidence.. It's a fine line. I understand the difficulty in that, though I've never had children myself and am young.. but I could imagine.

The problem is, how could anyone, any child.. any immature person.. any teenager learn if they are not told or showed? I know that I wouldn't want my children to be exposed to other people's negativity due to behaving badly in public, which is why I'd try to teach them myself, at home. Part of me would feel as though I'd failed them if I didn't teach them certain values such as the value of modesty and truthfulness. As I said previously, I don't believe false behaviour gets anyone very far in life, because the underlying substance is missing and people notice that after a while. Now if a child of mine became a spoilt brat and a bystander actually pointed this out, my first reaction would be to defend as a parent.. however I'd feel extremely guilty about the fact that my child's behaviour wound them up in this situation.. I strongly doubt I'd blame the other person for my child's actions. I would also do my best to ensure they understand what they are doing wrong and why they are getting these reactions so they can grow up to be well adjusted balanced adults who are not spoilt or egotistical or hypocritical.

All egotism, arrogance and hypocrisy spring, ultimately, from a deep inferiority complex. To be truly happy and to be able to feel love for yourself and others, self-acceptance is very important.

Neptune,
While you are not happy with yourself and are putting on an act, which by the way you switch every two or so posts depending on where the wind blows.. your ability to be a genuine person will continue to be very much so affected.

Now, I don't know about these interpretations I'm seeing of certain posts as being "harsh judgements". A little bit of interest in everything is great. Obsession, however, is in an entirely different category. To some extent we are all interested in all of the subjects mentioned above and much much more.. astrology, fashion, humanitarianism, archaeology, Buddhism, human anatomy.. There are numerous subjects of interest that spring the attention of numerous people. It is only when you take a subject to extremes that it becomes somewhat of a psychological problem (obsession).

It is a difference in *degree of involvement*. The same difference you would find between a person who daydreams habitually and one who is a paranoid schizophrenic.
Or.. A person who whizzes through fashion magazines and checks out their synastry with someone famous (I'm sure we've all done it) -and- an individual who believes they are destined to marry the person in the magazine.. and the other person in the magazine next to that.. *and* the person on the wall in front of them.

Example 1: "*Insert name of famous man* is just my type. I did our chart and what do you know? We had nice synastry."

- Normal statement.-

Example 2: "i feel So ashamed that the other party is such a terrible person,(putin of russia) a murderer, why couldn't i have had that great composite with someone decent? i feel tortured by the stars..." - Nept

- Gross exaggeration.-

Neptune,
Oh, don't we all feel so tortured by the stars? I feel tortured only reading this and knowing the torture you must've gone through when you read the synastry. It's been a very torturous experience for me.. but one that I must end now as it is getting a tad too ridiculous for me, so I hope something has registered..
Good luck in life.

posted December 20, 2006 04:33 AM         

I'll try to fix it.

posted December 20, 2006 07:03 AM         

I am writing this to appeal for more compassion and understanding among us. When I was 16, I said things, DID things, without thinking them through properly. When people jumped all over me for them, I was completely bewildered, because I was only expressing an opinion - following my heart and I had all manner of people telling me I was wrong for it. You know what? 9 times out of 10 I WAS wrong! But the fact of the matter is, that I had to get it wrong first so that I could learn how to get it right later.

I would hesitate to call this argument an "attack" on Neptune5, but as a 16 year old girl, I would probably have been reduced to tears at the harsh feeling I felt from some of these posts. Granted, Neptune5 is a lot more thick skinned and articulate than I was at her age, but she is still 16 and only just 16 at that.

Teenagers should be allowed to make mistakes in order for them to grow. Yes, there have been some blatant hypocrisies in her posts from time to time, but aren't we all guilty of that occasionally? I'm sure I am right now in fact. Pulling her up on every little detail seems a little over the top. In some ways you are absoulutely right to, because it will help toughen her up - the world can be a merciless place - but lets just be careful that we're not permanently damaging the sometimes fragile confidence of a teenager. If she was 26 it would be a more acceptable debate, but as she is only 16, it seems futile. And by the way, the voting/polling booth thing smacked of bullying. Even if you did only mean it as a joke, it looked like 3 or 4 big kids ganging up on a little kid in the playground - very childish. Lets try to be less harsh in the posts we make. We are her elders and should be guiding her instead of scolding her. She is not a naughty child, but a young woman, who is trying to find her way in this sometimes harsh and confusing world. Lets take some of her impulsiveness with a pinch of salt shall we?!

I am sorry Neptune - I realise my posts must sound extremely patronising and condescending and I must apologise for that. I know full well that you are an extremely intelligent lady and that you do not need somebody else to speak for you, but I can't help agreeing with sueG. If you were my daughter or sister, I would be very dismayed that people felt the need to impress their views on a teenager so forcefully. I remember having that done to me at 16 and I occasionally still resent the people who did it, because it meant that there was no room for error and it put me off being so vocal about my opinions. I have noticed that many of your posted threads have descended into rows, with people accusing you of being shallow and what not. I hope it won't stop you posting whatever the hell you want, just like the rest of us do!!! I doubt that very much though, as you're nowhere near as over sensitive as I am!!! I guess I just wanted to show you some support - it's hard being 16 sometimes!

To everyone else, I do not wish to argue and I realise full well that I have come on here and poked my nose in where it aint wanted!!! I just wanted to appeal to our better natures and remember that there are worse crimes than being a mouthy teenager! Save any vitriol for me - I don't mind!!! Come and rip my posts to shreds - i can take it - I'm well 'ard!!!!!

And finally, to get back to the original point, no neptune - I do not think it was disrespectful really. I do believe the two fergies have acually met, so perhaps she even asked her permission - who knows?! Anyway - i's a good play on words - even if her music sucks!!! (not my thing at all!)

posted December 20, 2006 09:17 AM         

quote:

---

Teenagers should be allowed to make mistakes in order for them to grow.

---

I am not in any position to allow or disallow anyone to act in a certain way. It’s a free world. We *all* make mistakes, not only teenagers. That being said, I fail to see Neptune’s behaviour in this thread as a mistake. It is much more character/personality related, than the word 'mistake' would suggest.

quote:

---

Pulling her up on every little detail seems a little over the top. In some ways you are absoulutely right to, because it will help toughen her up - the world can be a merciless place

---

I had absolutely no intention to write anymore than that initial sentence in this thread up until more posts came, and with that more hypocrisy. The bits and pieces you would call ‘details’, I see as inconsistencies and hypocrisies that I thought necessary to address.. because frankly she needs to know, precisely so that she can learn form it.
Nothing that was said here could toughen someone up, in the least. The world may be a merciless place, but my posts were not. If you honestly believe this is as merciless as the world gets, I’m not quite sure which parts you have been living in.. (but, mind you, I’d love to move there

quote:

---

lets just be careful that we're not permanently damaging the sometimes fragile confidence of a teenager.

---

Permanently damaging are very strong words. If someone was in such a sensitive and weak psychological condition that they can not read the posts in this thread without becoming permanently damaged, they should not be allowed to be on the internet in the first place, or allowed to watch any movies, or the news, or ever leave the house for that matter. A teenager at 16 can have sex, get a driver’s licence, quit school, get a job etc. There is plenty of information going a 16 year old’s way, both good/bad/PG and R rated. We are not talking about a 5 year old here.

quote:

---

And by the way, the voting/polling booth thing smacked of bullying. Even if you did only mean it as a joke, it looked like 3 or 4 big kids ganging up on a little kid in the playground - very childish.

---

I didn’t like the way that came out so I’m sorry it is posted now. It wasn’t intentional on anyone’s part.

quote:

---

Lets try to be less harsh in the posts we make. We are her elders and should be guiding her instead of scolding her.

---

posted December 20, 2006 11:55 AM         

I'm sorry if my post seemed like it was directed at you only - I can promise you that it was not - it was just a rant in general. Over the last few weeks, several of Neptune's posts have caused controversy and many folk, not just yourself, have reacted to the faults they have found in those posts. There is nothing wrong with that in itself - we are all entitled to our own opinions and this being a public forum is the place to do it if any!!!

My issue has probably been building up over a couple of weeks. Perhaps I was wrong for posting my thoughts on this particular thread - maybe starting a new thread on the issue would have been less misleading and I do apologise for jumping on the end of this one. I don't agree with a lot of Neptune's posts - nor would I have any hesitation to point out to her if I thought she was behaving like a spoilt brat! I think though, that she comes across wrong a lot of the time (sag thing maybe?!) and that occasionally people can be a little over-harsh in correcting her. It's just something I have observed in the last few weeks and it's made me a touch concerned about her welfare on these boards.

I know I sound a wee bit melodramtic! I am sorry for using the phrase; "permanantly damaging" as it was perhaps too strong. It's just that for all we know, this girl could be going through all sorts of personal hell and I wouldn't want her to feel ostracised here because of her age or any past mistakes she has made. She does, after all have as much right to be here as any of us do. Now I'm quite probably way off the mark with the "personal problems" thing (I hope so), but all I was saying, was that we should take care just in case. None of really KNOW what's going on in each other's lives here. With 16 being a precarious age and all, I wouldn't want neptune to feel like one of her outlets (I'm assuming she partially uses lindaland as an outlet) was becoming too unpleasant for her to use.

Like you said, 16 year olds can do many adult things(have sex/get a job/etc) but they are still minors in the eyes of the law. How frustrating for the highly intelligent one's like neptune who can mostly interact on an adult level - far supeior than most of her peers. But of course, patience and diplomacy increase with age and we should cut neptune some slack for the qualities she does not yet have and that only life experince will bring.

One thing lot of teenagers lack is self-awareness. I know didn't have ounce of it at 16!!! I would say things that were absolutely true to my heart and wind up offending someone somehow - not really hard to do as a teenagers viewpoint can often be complex, contradictory and even fickle. I would be absolutely bewildered when others would pull me up for being out of line. Coupled with the teenage hormones, I would jump on the defensive immeadiately because I felt attacked when all I was trying to do was say my piece. Even when I knew I was being hypocritical I still felt hard done by, because most of the time I had meant no harm in the first place yet I still ended up getting a bollocking. This appears to be the case with neptune in my opinion. If you aren't entirely self aware yet, it won't be possible to unintentioally offend people.

But do you know what? I was wrong to post in the first place really, as I think I may have let my personal feelings get in the way of forming a more logical response. Perhaps some of the things said, hit a nerve in me somewhere? I guess some of the posts directed towards neptune in recent weeks have been fairly spikey and it reminded me of some humorless times during my teenage years, therefore making me concerned for her feelings. I can promise you, I am not a niave or sheltered person living under a rock!!! I just feel we have a moral responsibility to be kind to the youngun's on these boards. We shouldn't be constantly castigating her faults - that's the job of her parents, teachers and of course herself. By all means we should pull people up for being rude, but with the exception of what she said to Salisa a few weeks back, Neptune does not seem like the sort of person to try and start trouble - I think she has a lovely soul. Her rants mostly only seem to be her defending herself.

Another thing I would like to apologise for is if you, Lauren, and others have felt that I was accusing you of lacking compassion. Not at all. This may come across as feeble, but I have felt recent threads have been very "cruel to be kind" in style. It is not my place to spout off about that, just because the "tough love" approach does not work for me, as it does work for some people. I only ever want harmony - ruled by venus doncha know!!! But I am a mother and this has somewhat softened me up towards those I "percieve" as vunerable. I wouldn't be surprised if Neptune was very angry with me actually for the patronising, babying manner I have been showing towards her. Neptune, I am sorry.

posted December 20, 2006 12:43 PM         

quote:

---

am sorry Neptune - I realise my posts must sound extremely patronising and condescending and I must apologise for that. I know full well that you are an extremely intelligent lady and that you do not need somebody else to speak for you, but I can't help agreeing with sueG. If you were my daughter or sister, I would be very dismayed that people felt the need to impress their views on a teenager so forcefully. I remember having that done to me at 16 and I occasionally still resent the people who did it, because it meant that there was no room for error and it put me off being so vocal about my opinions. I have noticed that many of your posted threads have descended into rows, with people accusing you of being shallow and what not. I hope it won't stop you posting whatever the hell you want, just like the rest of us do!!! I doubt that very much though, as you're nowhere near as over sensitive as I am!!! I guess I just wanted to show you some support - it's hard being 16 sometimes!

---

thank you for your honest reply Taurusgeminicusp, and i also thank the fact that you didn't judge me before you knew anything about me, which would be called being over-judgemental, which is one of the traits of humanity that has tarnished loving marriages, relationships, and families. Yes, they do forcefully tell me their views, but i actually happen to be quite submissive, and I am a good listener, while they accuse me, judge me, and try to breathe into me the things they say in such a consistent manner and don't even know me, and don't know how I sit at home and react in such a highly emotional and empathetic manner to women, men, and children on the news who are victims of war, crime, and violence, and sometimes when I watch CourtTV, its hard for me to believe that natural human beings would do such atrocious things, and i ask myself "and they have concious?", but of course you know their not listening to their concious, but you have to ask yourself that, because one day that may be something to remind someone of if you catch them in the midst of comitting a grave crime. And yes like i was saying before, the fact that they don't know me, and yet spill their words all over this thread, like they DO know me, is completely ludicrous, and its not logical, and i rest assure that the point that i'm making about 'logic - reasoning - judgement' (logic, reasoning, and judgement) is markedly above ALL the points they've made so far. Logic, reasoning, and Judgement, i'm speaking about this not in the context of using logic and reasoning to judge others, but using judgement with logic and reasoning, meaning judgement comes after you've known that person intimately, and in that context only God can judge.

(i'd also like to make a comment about my own personal sensitivity, i'm quite sensitive, and my Godmother tells me i'm too sensitive, but i'm rather more sensitive in an honest manner, "fair" for everyone, thats me).