posted December 15, 2006 03:41 PM         

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I am talking about the place where I was born-the land of my ancestors; a so called Third World Country. So yes, I am communicating just fine but thank you for assuming I can't articulate as well as you can.......as usual. You see AG, I don't know if you know this but where I am from (in the land of my ancestors), there actually is a government with laws...no one relies on anything else. But again, how nice of you to assume otherwise.
Yeah we went through Civil War, a violent one at that, but hasn't the U.S. been through this?

Again, done for the day. This was about someone killing another over a videogame and we've sidetracked. My bad

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First of all, you obviously weren't speaking articulately if your readers were supposed to infer that somehow despite your current locale you were lumping yourself in with people from a Third World.

posted December 15, 2006 04:29 PM         

I think the word "ciivilized" needs a change of defination. If you look at past "civilizations" you would clearly see that there isn't even one example you'll find that didn't promote war, cruelty, slavery, or violence openly in its bounderies. The ancient states of Sparta and Greece for instance both claimed civilzed societies. Sparta gave much liberated freedom to its women but if you consider the treatment the men went though and the extremist philosophy behind their totalitarian regime, one would cringe. Athens may not have been that brutal with its society but it disregarded women as second class citizens. Women had little or no rights in that society.

To the topic:

Swerve:

posted December 15, 2006 04:47 PM         

Ummmm this incident doesnt have anything to do with the third world or having rights and freedoms.

Good point Xodian about the term "civilized"

posted December 15, 2006 05:01 PM         

I came from the east. It is a place worse than North America or Europe. Crimes have no punishment because noone is brave enough to prosecute. Officials are so corrupt anyone can bribe their way out of trouble. It just seem that there is NO crime. But reality is that NOONE BOTHERS to report anything anymore because noone listens to your woes.

No reports of crime does not equal to No crime. The smart population all migrated to the West, particularly North America - to a more civilized place. Why do you think there are so many Asians here?

MM

posted December 15, 2006 05:08 PM         

Untrue. Take for instance the stringent laws of some Middle Eastern countries like Saudi Arabia (I said SOME. Please take that into context.)

posted December 15, 2006 05:57 PM         

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Would someone like to argue with me???
Yes, I'm a naughty Libra, jealous of all this arguing *ahem* DISCUSSING that I'm being left out of...

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posted December 15, 2006 07:02 PM         

places that rely on peoples desire to live each other are uncivilized:sooo..in america people have no desire,but they live together(cause they're uncivilzed)...how cool...and religion haha...people rely on religion......thats the dumbest thing I've heard all week...barring swerve's "people in the east are more animalistic(I'm not misquoting him,look at his comments,"it'll take more to make a westerner do that")...religion is more of a bane in getting people together(if you knew anything about the third world,you would've known that)....

weak goverments..I really dont know how you say that...based on the way,the media potrays the east...I suppose..

posted December 15, 2006 07:17 PM         

People who get along despite a lack of government and economy often do get along in part due to religion. If you're less ignorant, you ought to do a better job making your point.

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barring swerve's "people in the east are more animalistic(I'm not misquoting him,look at his comments,"it'll take more to make a westerner do that")...

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That's a very opportunisitic way to look at what Swerve said. Perhaps you're also actively looking for something to be offended by.

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weak goverments..I really dont know how you say that...based on the way,the media potrays the east...I suppose..

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posted December 15, 2006 07:47 PM         

people really dont need religion to get along...if you base things on religion your going to get jacked....cause poeple from all faiths live together in those countrys....

so what was swerve trying to make... maybe you can speak his mind better than him... If your going to say the east has a weaker civilization/weak goverments(and that in turn implying uncivilized)..(how is that connected to the topic of the thread anyway...)....I'm sorry to say,you have a weak mind..refer to my other posts and dulce luna s posts..maybe you all think of the east as people like saddam hussain or idi amin..

posted December 15, 2006 09:03 PM         

Yeah, I think we are all ignorant of many different perspectives... most people are lucky to see through more than one, which is why this place is such a blessing. I think everyone should share perspectives so we can all leave this thread more enlightened. I have questions?
So, which countries are Third World?
Which are the stereotypical, as described... and which are not and what are the differences?
Yeah, I don't think anyone disagrees that us Western "greedy capitolistic pigs" (as a brilliant man I once knew called us) are not "animalistic". Although I think that most of us here (in LindaLand) are at least trying... (*pats us on the back*).
There are wise men everywhere and creeps everywhere. Let's all strive to be wise, right?
~Out~

posted December 15, 2006 09:19 PM         

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so what was swerve trying to make... maybe you can speak his mind better than him... If your going to say the east has a weaker civilization/weak goverments(and that in turn implying uncivilized)..(how is that connected to the topic of the thread anyway...)....I'm sorry to say,you have a weak mind..refer to my other posts and dulce luna s posts..maybe you all think of the east as people like saddam hussain or idi amin..

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I already clarified for everyone what Swerve was trying to say. It was in my very first post in this thread.

As far as trying to project your thoughts onto me or Swerve, that's more than a little ridiculous I'd say. Neither of us has said that all people of the East are anything. That is something you've projected onto Swerve's posts. Maybe you have a comprehension issue, because by Swerve's own account I summarized what he was trying to say in just one sentence (I think Swerve's big point is that places with a good legal framework have less issues with uncivilized behavior, because there's always ongoing pressure to keep the citizens safe.). The rest has been you and Dulce trying to make Swerve out to be a racist (regardless of the fact that he's of Persian descent himself).

posted December 15, 2006 09:47 PM         

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As far as trying to project your thoughts onto me or Swerve, that's more than a little ridiculous I'd say. Neither of us has said that all people of the East are anything.

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You're making up your own excuses to be offended.

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Are you f-ing deluded? When people make statements like this....

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Disregard for life is more prevalent in Third World countries where children are the victims of war and greed and power more ofthen than not.

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or this...

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In the West people are more educated. In the West we have greater access to information. In the West we have a more robust civilisation with more capability as an individual to live the life we want to.

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How are we looking for things to be offended by?? Because None of those things came out of our mouths. And yes, you did lump all "Third World" Countries together again with this statement...

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Where it wouldn't be true is where civilization can't exist due to weak government and economic situations - Third World countries. In those places you have to rely on religion, and the desire of people to get along with one another. If you don't have either, you're all set for violence (often without consequence).

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Again, you implied that we were uncivilized...not I. I didn't make the statement which is total BS and full of stereotypes you probably saw on TV. In fact, I can say the same about most if not all of the statements made of the East today.

The End, Good Night

P.S. Hey Sweet Stars, how ya doin' girl?

posted December 15, 2006 09:57 PM         

You have no objectivity whatsoever.

I didn't say all Third World countries are the same. Show me where I said that.

posted December 15, 2006 10:10 PM         

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I didn't say all Third World countries are the same. Show me where I said that.

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Derrr, in that last quote in my previous post. I don't need to repeat myself. Anyways, I don't think Hot Ice or myself should be arguing with people who obviously know very little about life in the third world and therefore try to twist around everything to justify stereotypical statements.

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So these quotes you're putting up from Swerve... you'd say the opposite is true? You'd say that First World countries have more disregard for life, and children are often the victims of war and greed and power? You're saying that Third World countries are better educated, have greater access to information, and are more able to plot their own individual course? Is that what you're trying to tell me, Dulce?

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posted December 15, 2006 10:22 PM         

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Anyways, I don't think Hot Ice or myself should be arguing with people who obviously know very little about life in the third world and therefore try to twist around everything to justify stereotypical statements.

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You guys are the only ones twisting things around. You take a statement and project your own racial pride into it, and act like Swerve is saying something demeaning to you when he wasn't. Don't think the irony is lost on me that you and hot_ice apparently come from families that moved away from Third World countries into First World countries... the same way Swerve's own family did.

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The point I've been trying to drill into some thick heads today (won't name names) is that there are savages everywhere...not just in the 3rd world. Comprende?

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posted December 15, 2006 10:44 PM         

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The quote you posted does not in any way imply that all Third World countries are the same

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No, but it implies that you implied that all Third World Counrties are the same.

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You take a statement and project your own racial pride into it, and act like Swerve is saying something demeaning to you when he wasn't.

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Are you telling me that none of those quotes I posted were offensive?? I would expect this from a white American who wouldn't understand anyways.

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Don't think the irony is lost on me that you and hot_ice apparently come from families that moved away from Third World countries into First World countries... the same way Swerve's own family did.

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Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Hot Ice resides in India. And anyways, only about 1/4 of my family is here (and I have a big extended family)...everyone else is back at the Vila Coutinho; happy and hunky-dorey, aight? No more assumptions about my family please.

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don't think Swerve would've been inclined to disagree with you if you had said THAT rather than calling him a racist. Is there any reason you jump to racism as an argument rather than just disagreeing with the way a point is attempting to be made?

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I had been making that point numerous times throughout this with examples of "savages" in the West.
But you kept going on about "Places that have weak legal framwork and yadayadayada." which you said was third world countries and which in turn was implying that all of the Third World is uncivilized. Presumption that most of the third world has weak governing structures and is therefore uncivilized is crap...end of story.

posted December 15, 2006 11:43 PM         

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I don't think Swerve would've been inclined to disagree with you if you had said THAT rather than calling him a racist. Is there any reason you jump to racism as an argument rather than just disagreeing with the way a point is attempting to be made?

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What Swerve said,first post:

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Disregard for life is more prevalent in Third World countries where children are the victims of war and greed and power more ofthen than not.

Makes you wonder about the species as a whole. But in Western society you really have to be an animal to go that far

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What I said in reply:

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P.S:disregard for life can happen anyhere...you you have bad guys and good guys everywhere...by saying you have to be an animal to do this in the west...what are you implying?

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What swerve said:

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A man choosing to act this way with no provocation or motivation other than his own would indeed have to be more of an animal than say someone in a Third World country where warfare had twisted the morality and a sense of survival over-rode most basic ethical considerations.
edit: I have to stress that this doesn't make either right, but one would need more of a stretch than the other.

Is that better for you?

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Thats what started this entire thing....so it you sir,who has a comprehension issue..anbd oh,keep your eyes open when you read,it helps....

you can thank me later

AG wrote:

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You guys are the only ones twisting things around. You take a statement and project your own racial pride into it, and act like Swerve is saying something demeaning to you when he wasn't. Don't think the irony is lost on me that you and hot_ice apparently come from families that moved away from Third World countries into First World countries... the same way Swerve's own family did.

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I live in India.so much for another of your assumptions.

and about information and access...again..assumptions...heard of the IT revolution...guess who are one of the leaders in that...most people are tech savvy,and have computers..even farmers in villages.....information is not a problem at all...Thats why I said...Ignorance..

Hold on...

posted December 16, 2006 12:00 AM         

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I have made myself misunderstood.
Hot Ice if I offended I apologise.

My point of view is that every human being is equal and that we all susceptible to whatever society we find ourselves in. We shape ourselves to our environment.

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My use of both "Third World" and "civilisation" was incorrect and misleading. I am referring to the choices a man has from his circumstances pure and simple, unencumbered by influence or force.

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posted December 16, 2006 12:02 AM         

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A man in America is much less likely to change character under duress because of the situational elements and position he is in. I feel he has more personal freedom to choose his actions. That is where I am coming from. The countries involved and the nationalities or races of the people involved are irrelevant to my argument.

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We dont see murder on the streets everyday too y'know ...a murder or a rape is a very shocking thing here too..

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For instance, if on Mars there was a thriving civilisation of African descendants that financially and technologically and politically dominated the planet purely through social circumstance and history then I would consider a member of that society to have more freedom to choose what his actions are. Any society who achieves such a position cannot do so through peace and trade alone, that is obvious.

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But does that make it right? you dont have to dominate a planet to have freedom....we have that here,to say what we want,act the way we want,to pursue the career we want,protest when we dont like policys.....thats what Im saying..

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It does not take away from the fact that any member of the human race is capable of evil things, and in fact is probably too broad a point in all honesty and not accurate enough.

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