posted December 19, 2006 12:42 PM         

quote:

---

Moon666Child,

I disagree. I do not believe in free will. I believe there are perfectly evident reasons (called "motives") to explain people's various choices, without resorting to some specious "free will", which would have to somehow exist in a vacuum, outside of these motives, so as to act as an impartial arbitter of them; being moved to choose this or that way by no motivating force whatsoever, aside from the elusive "I"; which is, after all, insubstantial, and virtually non-existent, when viewed independently of the specific characteristics (those things that, by nature, engender specific motives) and behaviors attributed to it. I think a person is the battlefield upon which his or her strengths and weaknesses collide. The awareness of one's weaknesses and strengths is not chosen, but develops over time, and the choice to act responsibly based on our present level of awareness is not free and independent of those strengths and weaknesses. It is NOT a choice anyone could make, but, rather, it is a perfect example of the operation of a particular strength, which only some people possess.

---

posted December 19, 2006 06:29 PM         

You have stated your beliefs beautifully.

I wonder,
do you have reasons for them,
which are equally compelling?

See, I went to a bit of trouble to provide reasons for my position.
I spoke of what I understood, not merely what I believed.
Perhaps, if you have some understanding,
you could share that as well?

posted December 20, 2006 07:17 AM         

Silverstone, thank you for Seeing me and believing in me.
moon666child, thanks for the heart.
pix, it's ok. Go and have a wonderful Christmas.
Zala
AG
Steve

posted December 20, 2006 08:06 AM         

Choices...

To walk away from bad relationships

To move to a different country

To change my style of work

To say no instead of yes

Choice (to me) is free will

I would be a prisoner without it

posted December 20, 2006 08:24 AM         

I probably have a foot in both camps.

posted December 20, 2006 01:40 PM         

That was a beautiful post. You touched on every point, without pointing fingers. That is an awesome gift.

___________

I am truly sorry things have gotten so out of hand. I am sorry to be a part of this and to see it constantly being brought up in this manner. I am not sure how many times I have to say sorry as that veiled accusation keeps coming my way.

No one is going to be liked by everyone in this world. I don't have to like everyone nor do I need to have everyone like me. There are some whom I will never be friends with nor would I ever want them as friends. We still have to exist together in this online community. We don't have to address each other or "make nice" but I have asked several times to let this negativity stop. It is only going to crush whatever positive energy we have been putting out for healing.

Regardless of how those that hate me perceive me, I do care and I won't stop wishing good things for Rainbow. She may hate me, but my heart isn't on that level.

posted December 20, 2006 02:39 PM         

quote:

---

I made a comment about the degradation of her writing without knowing the traumatic circumstances that were developing.

---

This is the point. You make these verbally abusive comments without thinking how it will affect the other person. No, I am not saying you caused Rainbow's brain cancer. I am saying that you made a hurtful comment without knowing how that would affect her. Words are so powerful.

It's nice for you to apologize. Talk is cheap when it isn't backed up by action to accompany it. Eventually the apology ceases to mean anything when you continually exhibit the same behaviours. It would be better if you would work on not verbally abusing those whom you disagree with for whatever reason.

Take this for what you will.

Love to all,
Goatgirl

posted December 20, 2006 02:49 PM         

quote:

---

Talk is cheap when it isn't backed up by action to accompany it. Eventually the apology ceases to mean anything when you continually exhibit the same behaviours. It would be better if you would work on not verbally abusing those whom you disagree with for whatever reason.

---

posted December 20, 2006 03:10 PM         

Don't tell people how to act and live if you cannot even practice what you preach.

That goes twice for you "and".

posted December 20, 2006 03:23 PM         

Pidaua,

I am extremely sorry for any words I may have said to you that hurt your feelings. Please accept my apology. I hope you will forgive me. I also forgive you for anything you may have said to me that hurt my feelings. I truly mean these words.

Goatgirl

posted December 20, 2006 03:37 PM         

every action, words, thoughts, anything done..
will have a Re-Action, wemust learn to do the right thing, and treat one another with LOve and Respect and Understanding...

we are all brothers and sisters, all equal, all given the same Miracle Gifts, and we are Governed by the Universal God Laws, Karma, you get what you give...

everything we do has power, Energy...

Please, we must all, try Our best
to Undertake to do Everything
we do
with LOve in Our Heart. ...

Forgive, Come Full-Serpent-Circle
A clean slate...

we are the Narrators of this World's
Theatre..
by every thing we do. ...

posted December 20, 2006 03:39 PM         

Does that mean I dont have to
"crawl back under [my] rock"?

Still awaiting my apology for that one.

Remember, you were telling TheEvolution how "stupid" he is, and I simply asked if that language was necessary. You responded by telling me that, being new to the GU part of the forum, I was not aware of how equally rude TheEvolution had been to you (in other words, "he started it!", "two wrongs make a right!"), and that I should keep my big mouth shut until I know more about what is going on (in other words, "I've seen it all, I was here first!"). At which point you told me to "crawl back under [my] rock" (lol), or you would be forced to thrash me, or something like that (lol).

If you are serious about "taking reponsibility for nasty and degrading comments", and I believe you are, I hope you will find it in your heart to apologize to me for the things you said, which were provoked by nothing, if not my desire to question the necessity of your own nasty and degrading comments (toward TheEvolution).

Pid, you are one of only two people on this forum whom I feel very uncomfortable around. I have been carrying around this bone of contention in my side ever since you said those words to me. Is it pressumptuous of me to request an apology from you, after all this time? Even if it is, I think it would make me feel a lot better, and more comfortable with you. So, I am asking for that now. I hope you will find it warranted. The ball is in your court.

posted December 20, 2006 03:40 PM         

it's hard to do, I fall, I fail,
But, I get up again, and again and
again, I will not Fail

we will change, we have to

posted December 20, 2006 03:43 PM         

Cheers.

posted December 20, 2006 03:55 PM         

Moon666child~~ back to you, thank you.

I think the only thing to do is to let it all be and let time tell what it will.
That's what Mirandee and I have been trying to do.

Since I haven't had time to voice some midunderstandings, though, would like to at least clear some stuff up.

I never said anything directly to you, Sue.
I never named a name or singled any one person out, as you are saying. I was speaking generally to whoever it pertained to (see Narcissist thread in SU for my post).
You ask me to apologize, when you are the one exploiting me/misrepresenting me to garner sympathy (at my expense)to appear 'above' and 'higher'; a better person.
I will not.
Nor will I apologize for natural human passions and emotions. They were honest.
I'm human as anyone, and passionately aroused when I feel someone I care for is being misunderstood or attacked or exploited.
I always apologize when I feel I've been unfair or in the wrong....I'm always sincere.
But in this case, I was only defending my mother from unjust, dishonest interpration of her intent and word (which keep continuing, despite how many times she's reposted her actual words or tried to explain.
Sue, your ongoing character assasinations of me and your encouragement to DFD I guess should say all the upspoken things.
Because I'm not doing so to you.
Your the one instigating...I haven't even been around, so 'above' such things you are not. Pay no attention to the woman behind the curtain, ay?

Forgiveness does not always mean continuing on with people (although, you and I never had anything to continue). You can just as much truly forgive, while choosing to go seperate ways. Sometimes that's the best choice. You and Lotus are now best of buds~ If that works for you, then fine. But don't assume there is only one path to forgiveness and that it can only happen in the way that you perceive it should be.

I'm careful with who I entrust with friendship, while I do love humanity at the same time, and it's because of how much I do care for people.
I try to sense out honorable people, and feel it's important to honor and praise them. I can't feel right about honoring people who routinely exploit opportunities to better themselves, even if at the expense of others.
This is something I don't feel right about encouraging and so I don't. I'm passionatively sensitive and can't sit back thinking others might be harmed, while I encouraged it with silence and befriending those who would treat people as pawns in this way. Everyone's different. I follow my Tune and everyone else has the right to follow theirs in whatever way feels right to them.

Aquarius' lesson is to love all humanity impersonally, non-judgementally, objectively...
Leo, it's opposite's lesson is to love subjectively, Passionately, whole-heartedly....a gentle (sometimes fiery) reminder to Aquarius that some people are more special to us than others. Some people are more honest, more compassionate, etc. Unique~ not the same.

Balance in the center of the wheel is harmony, isn't it? As all opposition, even the one of the Age of Aquarius (so therefore also the age of Leo), has to teach us. Balance within the knave, that middle magical blending between Aquarius and Leo...not the spokes of extremes. We take all of the hard lessons into our hearts and carry onward.

Aquarius loves all of humanity unconditionately and then onto the next experience of Pisces...

Pisces cries for humanity.

Why do they cry?

Because they care so much for others.
They cannot, like Aquarius observe detatched. They take everyone into themselves.

They look at the world and see everything...nothing escapes them. They feel all the suffering, all the injustice, all the cruelty and sorrow. Even subtle manipulations; the ever so hidden vibrations that most often go unheard, they are intune to.

Is it then, right to assume that someone doesn't care for and love All just because they discourage a person's actions? Because they face the negativity and see it for what it is in contrast to the beauty they envision could be?
It's most often because of how much they do care.

Pid, if someone keeps bringing your name up, perhaps you need to talk to DFD,
because if you read the posts, Mirandee and I have been silent about you for quite some time. So STOP perpetuating the lie that we are doing it and also the lie that Mirandee said you caused Ginny's illness. She never did.

I may have not chosen what my Mom chose to do myself in confronting you with things you've said, but I didn't instantly judge her so harshly, because I knew it was from care and love. Care for others...the future of this site, love for Ginny. Her intention was a good one, no matter what may have been presumed from it.
So, I couldn't sit back and watch her be crucified for it.
I would still do the same.

goatgirl

posted December 20, 2006 04:05 PM         

the quote,

"The opposite of love is not hate, but indifference."

is originally from Ellie Weisel.

posted December 20, 2006 04:08 PM         

The situation that you bring up was brought on your head as you butted into a thread that you had no business butting in on and we had pages of history that you neglected to read. Instead, you decided to make an appearance and tell everyone in GU how we should act, what the forum was about and so forth. Then when "I" and several other people explained things to you and did not appreciate your condecending attitude, you blasted us and went away.

That was your choice. I don't go into your philosophical threads where you discuss the use of various herbs to receive visions and tell you how I think you are abusing drugs or what you should do, but you felt compelled to so what you did in GU.

I am sorry you feel uncomfortable around me but that is on you. I don't find most of your brand of writing to be comforting in the least and you are aware of that as I have referred to your style as "blood and guts". You also push your views onto people, whether it be about drug abuse or how you feel others should treat the homeless. My thing is, how is it okay for some to constantly push their views, make cutting remarks to other and NOT expect to have someone say it back to them?

Where is it written that some people fell exempt from the same rules they force others to live by.

I have repeatedly apologized - but that is between me and God, no one here can give me that absolution and no one here is above reproach enough to grant me forgiveness with words that were said between me and another. MANY of us are guilty of what others are getting so hypocritically ruffled about. As I stated before and yet NO ONE that has been pushing this crap on me has answered this question...

Should I find that I am cannot have children, do we then all gang up on Mirandee and Rainbow for stating it was Mother Nature's wish for that to happen?

Do you think that is NOT absurd? If I had the power to kill then I would have the power to heal- which means many of those that I have known that died would still be around today - don't you think?

Yet, I am sure the Universe is just brimming with love and light with threads like this. I can see the people on the sidelines laughing about how this keeps spiraling downwards.

posted December 20, 2006 04:16 PM         

I believe you might want to rethink what you just said about what your mother said. It is right here:

"pidaua
Knowflake
Posts: 6331
From: Arizona - Moving to Germany to be with Bear the Leo
Registered: May 2002

posted December 11, 2006 02:23 PM

Zala....
It is right here:

"Lotus, Maybe it was Pidaua's negativity and her constant remarks about Ginny having brain damage that caused her cancer. Did you ever think of that? I mean with all your talk on the power of negativity and karma and all that one would think the thought might occur to you.
Evil wishes and hate directed at others can be a powerful thing."- Mirandee http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum16/HTML/002922-3.html

"Pid can't take back her words. It is over and done with. But hopefully she would learn from this experience what harm her words can have on others. When she personally attacks people on the computer she has no way of knowing what is going on in the life of that person on the other side of her screen. Actually for that reason Pidaua could be endangering herself. It is no safer online to attack people verbally than it would be offline face to face. People can Google a map right to your doorstep so that is another reason why it is not a good idea. " http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum16/HTML/002991.html "

It has been copied and pasted onto several threads. I have posted it and so has DforD as have others. In fact, many questioned her afterwards yet not you nor your mother actually offered an explanation. I asked for it to stop (the interrogation of your mother) because it was more than likely based on grief.

It was brought up again and Zala said she never saw it- so I posted it- again, not one answer not one acknowledgement.

It all goes back to the same. Some people can make threats, make vicious remarks hoping for ones infertility and yet- they want to hold the rest of us to another standard.

posted December 20, 2006 04:30 PM         

I guess why stop doing it if it works for you? I mean why mess with a recipe for success?

4 pages of the Mirandee thread in GU mysteriously disappeared. And she has reposted her words (not your cleverly manipulative ommitting version) several times. I did save the missing 4 pages of the Mirandee thread, but decided against reposting it, in hope to carry onwards and let things go.

posted December 20, 2006 04:41 PM         

You do have a Voice and a say,
wherever you want.

Global Unity.

This is the problem...there is no Unity there at all.