posted March 22, 2007 06:58 AM         

I remembered something you posted somewhere a little while ago about losing it on someone in anger only at very rare times when you were really pushed to and therefore you knew that it was worthy anger.
I so related to that.
Mars in Capricorn---I hate to lose control of my emotions, because I feel like it's giving over my power. Giving the other person just the power and control they want over me. So I rebel. Drove my ex crazy through our divorce and his many Aries forceful interrogations.

Speaking of which, maybe I did rebel a little from You, Stephen, subconsciously.
I sensed you were hoping to throw people off their center. Maybe that triggered the opposite reaction. I don't know.

I really don't know what to think right now.

I'm very tired.

I have to get up in an hour.

posted March 22, 2007 08:20 AM         

quote:

---

Eleanore,

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I feel extremely grateful to the wise ones who attained long ago what I only strive for today ... and more grateful still that they didn't turn their noses up at the "less worthy" of us straggling behind them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well said. I am always amazed by people who talk about dropping their seed in passing, and quickly moving on with the assurance that, if people are ready, they'll hear it. I always thought this was a case of lazily "turning up their noses" and considering others unworthy of their time and effort. Far from turning up my nose, I have gotten down in the dirt and dug the hole before droping my seed. Then I come back to check its progress and water it frequently. In anything, I over-water, and get accused of trying to force my ideas down the throats of those who continue to debate them with me.
Oi yey!

---

I'm fond of gardening myself, though I don't fashion myself an expert. I'm happy with what I've accomoplished and always want to do more. I nurture my own seeds but I've been known to neglect a few along the way. I've also over-watered on a few occassions and learned through trial and error that less water is often not as deadly as excess water. Yet I'd never dream of walking into a neighbor's garden and planting my seeds in their soil unannounced or unbidden. It's true that in the past I've been too eager to share my extra seedlings and tried to give them with good intentions to friends and strangers alike. Few took them and most wondered why in the world I thought they'd even want that particular plant. Even when the flowers have bloomed it's hard to find someone who fancies the same plants I do enough to want them for a vase in their home. However, now and again, a neighbor or friend has come over to peek at my little paradise and struck up a conversation about what I grow and why. Some even desire seeds or a plant or two ... some just want their names. I'll give if I can spare and I usually can.

And although I do love to garden, I realize I'll never be like Nature herself. My plants, for as much I tend them and care for them, are not made of the same stern stuff as what grows in the wild. Neither are they as adaptable. My little hothouse orchids would not make it a season in the wild. Nature doesn't worry about planting her seeds and watering them enough. They take care of themselves as they are meant to. Nature is prolific. How many seeds in an apple? How many apples on a tree? How many of those fallen seeds become trees in their own right? Not many. Actually, quite few. I choose to believe there is a purpose in that. The seeds themselves must be healthy, sure. But more important is the readiness of the environment into which they are planted and the surrounding circumstances affecting their growth. Nature gives without expecting anything in return, not even recognition. Turn our backs on her and she goes about her duties just the same though with considerable more hardship, I imagine. And the Sun and other celestial bodies shine their lights and impart their influences on the weeds just as easily as they do on the roses. Some have even discovered that many of these same old weeds have just as important a purpose as the roses do.

Nature is my master gardener and it is from her that I take my lessons or try to anyway. I like to observe the gardens around me as well as the natural places. And I've known a number of people who have gardens that are exquisite, even if I'd never choose the same plants or layout for my own. But even though our methods vary, we are still united by our love of gardening and Nature. I have faith that this love will one day unite us all, not because I stuffed x amount of seeds into other people's yards but because they chose to take it up themselves after taking a sincere interest in it. Perhaps they were simply admiring other people's gardens for a while before they came up with something that felt right for them. Or perhaps Nature herself inspired them with her majesty.

That's just my perspective, anyway. And now I'm itching to get my hands in the dirt again.

<sniff sniff>

Sufi? Enlighten me, please!

PS Hope no one minds me posting from something so many pages ago. Hadn't had a chance to reply until now.

posted March 22, 2007 12:49 PM         

I just read the responses on the last two pages of this thread...

Melody,

You can do what you want,
but, if you ask me, my advice to you is,
BACK OFF!!!!!!!!!
Please.
I don't think you are accomplishing anything good
by repeating my mistakes with a vengence.

I like a good fight as much as anyone.
I have to struggle to keep it clean.
I never meant to assasinate anyone's character.
Only their illusions.
For the most part, I only succeeded in killing off a few of my own,
but that's more than I could have hoped for.
I think this catty sh!t needs to stop,
and I dont care who started it.

Lisa,

I love you.
I think my words have been misconstrued.
The only fault I ever suspected or accused you of
was unclear, emotionally clouded thinking,
which you have acknowledged yourself.
Is that such a horrible thing for me to say?
Is that a "betrayal"?
I have always believed your intentions are pure,
and that you believe the things you write.
I never thought you were manipulative or any of the bad things
you seem to think I said about you,
which so upset you last night.
I'm a nervous wreck about the things
you wrote to me in an email this morning.
I have nothing more to say about them here.

There is no one on this site who I know better than you.
And there is no one here I have more respect for as a person.
I respect you for all your virtues,
and for all the things you have to overcome.
I see how hard you try to be fair and impartial.

posted March 22, 2007 01:04 PM         

You have gone way over the line on this thread with your rantings, your wild unfounded accusations against myself and my daughter.

All through your tirades against the people on this thread I have tried hard not to lose my temper but with your post last night and the unfounded accusations in it regarding myself and my daughter you went way over the line and ticked me off big time.

Randall has not yet officially made myself and Zala mods here at FFA but he did appt. us as mods. For that reason my hands are kind of tied as to what I can officially do as a mod here. If that was not the case you would have been off this thread a long time ago. As a moderator here I want you off this thread as of now if you can't conduct yourself any better and control your behavior.

posted March 22, 2007 03:47 PM         

MELODY:
Alchemist, this was continued from 2 other threads, and continued from those threads before this. That is why it is easy for those of us who have been present the entire time to see people deliberately poking a stick into the place that it hurts despite the butterflies shooting out of thier butts.
(To put it delicately and SENSITIVELY)
Lia keeps posting quotes about Steve not being wise in between her misc comments on how he pretended to see HER wisdom, but she sees now that he never did. This is because of the point Fayte was kind enough to point out --> they they had a fight over email. Steve didn't say anything to me about it, although I see other chickens were cackling away.
Anyway, I'm sure by "episode" Steve meant that he got frustrated and actually showed a negative aspect of Scorpio, ooooooh tragic, no one else EVER DOES THAT, and since we are so used to him always showing only the best attributes of Scorpio and he actually slipped up once (AND THEN PUBLICLY APOLOGIZED FOR GOD'S SAKE) then IT WAS TIME TO GET OUT THE TAR AND FEATHERS. Mirandee is spanking Steve because Lia is her daughter and SHE certainly knows what went on between them , even if the REST OF US DON'T. (Lia obviously had hurt feelings and any female who has dealt with a Scop can relate to that) Fayte is Lia and Mirandee's friend. Out of respect for Rainbow and out of repect for the kind word Mirandee said to me when I was in the hospital I try to not get into it, BUT I SWEAR, IF YOU GUYS DON'T STFU AND LEAVE STEVE ALONE I WILL MAKE HIM TELL ME WHAT HAPPENED AND IIIIIIIIIIII WILL SPREAD YOUR PERSONAL BUSINESS ALL OVER THE BOARD. GO FIND SOMETHING ELSE TO DO OR EMAIL STEVE AND FIGHT ONE ON ONE INSTEAD OF GANGING UP AND TRYING TO DISCREDIT HIM TO THE NEWBIES.
If you are just emotional and upset, you will stop. If you don't stop, you are just a bunch of harpies.
Alchemist, the reason why no one understands my posts is because I saw what was going on here from the very beginning and I began to post on the argument of some people having higher wisdom etc in an effort to change the thread course to something constructive. The only person who bothered to discuss it with me was Lotus because everyone else had blood in their eyes. I continued to discuss it even though no one was bothering to read what I said or trying to understand me. Now everyone is off in their own happy world of stereotypes and I am just watching and listening so I can discern the actual level of their ignorance.
I can see why it is all so confusing to you. I wouldn't bother with it, and just wait until HSC posts an interesting topic next week for everyone to discuss. This is a cesspool.

On another note, I bet you are all glad I'M not a Moderator either because I would have called this out immediately and shut it down if the topic didn't take a direction other than Steve, even though the original poster was also over on the other thread and was referring to what was already being discussed there.
Thanks Solane Star
If I can quote another wise man, "hopefully now the storm is over" and things will start going up up up.

MIRANDEE
“Well, glad this thread straightened itself up at the end. Unfortunately Randall has not yet made it official that Zala and I are mods here at FFA. It seems he is waiting to do that when he decides who the other two mods will be so as of now we have no authority to close threads or edit them or take any official steps.
I will address a couple of things here though. Some truly cruel, hateful and hurtful things have been said on this thread by both MM and Steve that needs to be addressed.
MM you made a lot of unfounded assumptions and accusations regarding my daughter, Lia, telling me personal things that she and Steve have talked about in private. That is a biased assumption you have drawn because we are mother and daughter that has no basis in actual fact or reality. I have only heard good things about Steve from Lisa. The same applies to her friendship with AG. I only hear good things about AG. Nothing of a personal nature. She is not one to divulge even the most trivial things she talks to her friends about in private much less confidences of a personal nature that any of her friends may have shared with her. And I don't ask!!!! I am not, nor have I ever been a prying type mom.
Lisa seems to think very highly of Steve. Although at this point, if in fact Steve did divulge things on this thread that Lisa told him in private, then as a mom I might have a talk with Lisa about being more careful in her selection of friends and who she places her trust in. If Steve divulged private information that Lisa shared with him on a public forum like LL then that is about as low a thing anyone can do to a friend. Especially a friend who would not even tell her own mom anything he told her in private. I don't know what Steve said but what he did, well, I do not think he is worthy of a friend like Lisa. Sorry but that is how I feel about anyone who sinks that low.
Lisa has always been understanding, compassionate, empathetic and consistently forgiving of hurts that people have laid on her. I honestly have wondered many times how much hurt one soul can bear and still go on thinking the best about people, still go on loving others, caring about them and what happens to them, and be as forgiving as she is. In fact, she is still the best of friends with her ex-husband and goes out of her way for him. She still, in spite of all the hurt of that separation and divorce loves him and cares what happens to him. I am constantly amazed at her strength of endurance and how she will not let hurts or maltreatment by those she cares for make her a bitter and hard person.
Oh, I do know when she is hurt. Though she might not go into a lot of detail about it or what was said or done to her, I have been a shoulder to for her tears many times in her life. Yet Lisa has only grown stronger as a woman through all her hurts and all her struggles in life. For that reason I am proud to have given birth to her, proud that she is my daughter, but even if she wasn't my daughter I would have nothing but admiration for her and wonder over her strength and endurance.
I noticed that you did put in an apology thread here at FFA, Steve. Knowing Lisa as I do she will probably forgive you for God knows how many times now, not because you deserve it, but because of the person that Lisa is. Being a mom who hears her sobs and sees my child hurting it might take me a little longer to offer up that forgiveness but being as I also am you can go to the bank on it. Just don't expect it right away. Moms are like that about their kids. It's an inate characteristic of all moms to protect their kids. Well, maybe not all moms but most of us. “

MELODY:
Mirandee, I drew my assumptions from what I read over the last few days, not from anything Steve told me and not from anything he posted. I don't even remember what he posted to Lia that everyone told him he had to delete. If I was wrong about Lia telling you, then I was wrong. I wouldn't tell my mother anything like that either. You obviously have some problem with him.
Have you ever heard it said that what people are arguing/fighting about on the surface isn't what they are REALLY fighting about? What's the point in telling HSC over and over and over and over that he can't be who he is? That he should change to suit everyone else? That's what I am seeing. A bunch of people telling him how arrogant he is, arrogantly thinking they know what is right for him and they know who and how he should be and that he should change to make himself more palatable to them. I find that offensive and I have experienced similar treatment before myself. I think he's ok the way he is, and I think I'm ok the way I am. I think you are ok the way you are too, I just don't like talking to you much and you don't like talking to me either. So what, if we did a composite we would know why. It's enough to just trust there is a reason. Maybe someday we will learn something from each other, maybe it's NOT TODAY.
If you have a problem with him, email him and deal with it and then "outsiders" like me won't be making any "assumptions". Sheesh.

MIRANDEE:
Another assumption that you are making, MM.
At this point the only problem that I have or have ever had with Steve is his betrayal of my daughter's friendship and trust and hurting her the way he did today.
Other than that I have never had a problem with him. In fact, many times I have told him that I respect and admire his intellect and that we do agree on many things. Not everything though and there is no reason why we can't disagree without you sticking your nose in and trying to make something more out of it than truly exists.
I don't know what you think you saw on the other threads here that caused you to draw your assumptions but you do seem to have a problem with coming to unfounded assumptions and making unfounded accusations.
Truthfully I think you create as you did on this thread situations that truly don't exist such as you saying we were picking on Steve and blah, blah, blah so that you can defend him in order to win points with him. In doing that you not only are exploiting myself and my daughter but everyone on this thread who disagreed with Steve and his condescending attitude toward the rest of us for your own manipulative agenda. I draw that assumption from the countless times that I have seen you do precisely this on many, many other threads.
Another unfounded assumption that you have drawn here is that I, or anyone else on this thread were telling Steve he should change or be something he is not. Though change IS a sign of growth. To be completely honest, I could give a rats a$$ less if Steve ever changes. Change comes from within each individual. No one can make someone else change and for that reason I don't try to change other people. Frankly, I am still working on the things I would like to change in myself. I don't have time to worry about changing anyone else.
Regardless of your obvious attempts and working overtime to make it appear as you want it to be to serve your own agenda, I think that Steve knows, that while I am not real happy with him at this time, I like him and respect him and his viewpoints, even the ones that I will never agree with him on. I like his passion about his beliefs and overall I think he has good heart and good intentions. I think I have told him these things so he should know it. I have also told him that he expresses himself in writing very well and is probably a born writer. But he is not a perfect human being just the like the rest of us. However, change has to come from within Steve and only if he wants to change. Either way, my life will go on.
Having friends who do not enable him and who are also co-dependents might help him a whole lot more than those who only wish to impress and win favor with him. A true friend is one who does not just tell their friend what they think they want to hear but also can tell them when they are wrong.
Now is that brutally honest enough for you, MM? I think you should give it a rest.
Thank you, BR That was very sweet of you to say.
Incidently, you asked me once in a post how I handle constant antagonizers. See above reply to MM for your answer. After tearing them a new a$$hole I put them out of my mind and out of my life for good. Which I feel is the best way to deal with them.
Though honestly, in my real time life I haven't had any constant antagonizers. I normally get along with people. I have only had to put one person out of my life in all my years.
You would think that people here who are so well versed in astrology would know better than to keep prodding the bull, wouldn't you? “

MELODY:

Just because that's how you roll, don't project it on me. I don't boil inside while plotting manipulative ways to get back at people. My emotions show right on the surface when I am upset. I witnessed your angry and manipulative ways the first time I encountered you, which is why I have been wary of you ever since. I don't defend people I care about to "make points" but maybe that's your bitter view of friendship.
"After tearing them a new a$$hole" you said. You are a nasty woman. I am quite glad you will be putting me out of your mind forever. I will be pleased to not speak with you again.

And let's not forget the last comment you just posted.

Lia and Steve are hurt. You are... something else.

posted March 22, 2007 03:49 PM         

The pesky little gnat that I am,I`m asking you, in your repentence and sorrow, to go back through this thread and reply to all the sincere questions asked of you.

It would be a Service to those who took the time and energy to know you.

Peace & Blessings.

------------------
~
What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~

posted March 22, 2007 04:02 PM         

Now, please leave this thread and do as HSC directed you and BUTT OUT!!!!! Your only purpose here on this thread appears to be to continue making trouble and digging a deeper hole for yourself in the process.

posted March 22, 2007 04:14 PM         

Have tried to post this several times today and it seems I can only put in short posts here today so will have to do this in segments. Sorry.

I just want you to know that I feel that what has happened here on this thread between you and Lisa is something that the two of you will either work out or not. It is between the two of you and none of my business. So please don't think that there will be any butting in or interference in that process between friends on my part at all.

I want to let you know that I don't hold mistakes against people. I know that you feel bad because I do believe you to have a good heart and good intentions. Always felt that way about you. What I am trying to say is that in spite of what I may have said in anger at seeing my daughter hurt so bad here on this thread is that I don't think any less of you because of it. I do not hold it against you and don't want you to think that I do.

Thank you for calling off MM. As I stated above, my hands are kind of tied as mod until Randall picks the other two mods and makes it official for me and Zala. I don't think things would have gotten as far out of hand on this thread if MM had just expressed herself and defended you in the beginning without the personal attacks on people, i.e. " all you people suck!"

I am not going to go on your apology thread, Steve because I told you here that forgiveness is a given with me. Consider it done. That applies to anyone else as well. It showed humility on your part to post that public apology and I think you are wonderful for having done that.

I have also told you before that you and I do agree on some things. We are coming from different perspectives though, you from the field of philosophy studies, and me from the field of theological studies that really just takes philosophy to a higher level. I study both and I am sure from all you have said on the threads that you do as well. So we have different beliefs and I feel without any interference we can just agree to disagree at times without it being taken personal on your part or mine or made out to be a personal thing by any third party who wants to create an image of me that does not exist in reality.

posted March 22, 2007 04:15 PM         

Let's just clarify that my beliefs are just that, beliefs and not suspicions. My beliefs are my TRUTHS. Hopefully we can discuss better in the future with that having been clarified

Folks, the way that Lisa has spoken on this thread is about as angry as she gets. I wish I had mars in capricorn but I have mars in leo and when I blow well...you all have seen it. For that reason, Steve, and everyone else, you all can be grateful that Lisa and I are not alike in many ways.

Also she did not go without a lot of talking to and chastising from mom in those wild days of hers. Just wanted to make it clear that I can also be tough on my kids when I feel they are in the wrong. She and her older brother were constantly testing the limits in their teens. From the time Lisa could talk I think her first words were, "I know!" She was always fiercly independent. Drove us nuts with that! The thing is that Lisa's son has his mars in Leo and he is sitting directly on it. At the age of 2 1/2 he bosses us all around here. Lisa's girls are just as fiercly independent as she ever was. That is why they say that grand kids are a parent's revenge. hee hee

Okay off topic here. Sorry.

posted March 22, 2007 04:29 PM         

quote:

---

Lia and Steve are hurt. You are... something else.

---

I don't know about you as a mom, MM but when my kids are hurt, I hurt too.

That's my stake in this. I don't see that you have any stake in this that called for your personal attacks on myself and my daughter other than your own personal agenda in defending Steve against something that you only imagined and created that did not actually exist. Others told you many times they were not attacking Steve and yet you persisted to continue on with that. Why if not solely for the purpose of getting attention directed onto you and for starting trouble. You have a problem with me obviously but that is your problem. Not mine. Deal with it.

posted March 22, 2007 04:54 PM         

MIRANDEE:
"Randall has been told by ME what transpired between the two of us, MM. No need for you to have done that. I think Randall can easily see why I lost it on you.
Now, please leave this thread and do as HSC directed you and BUTT OUT!!!!! Your only purpose here on this thread appears to be to continue making trouble and digging a deeper hole for yourself in the process."

I will overlook the misc insults you just dropped on me in the next 3 posts, and will clear up only that when I said to Blue Roamer, "You are right, I should have just said 'all you guys suck and I'm going home and then kicked over the monopoly board' I was saying that his calm and cool-headed comment was right and I was acting immaturely. I then went back to discussing what I had been discussing which was people's level of enlightenment and a friend's death and my ambivalent feelings about his well-being since he had no Faith.

If you stop commenting to me AND about me, I won't say another word on this subject, or even on this thread, since it is so important to you.

As for daughters, you are right, I would have done the same thing. Which is about the same instinct that caused my initial comments. Ya know?

posted March 22, 2007 05:17 PM         

I understand why Lisa tries to be so careful with her words. I feel that way now. I'm afraid anything I say may be taken the wrong way. Perhaps I am not even aware of certain ways my words could be taken, and perhaps I have subconscious desires of my own to have them taken that way. But I'm trying, as she always tries, to be honest with myself and others.

I always admired the way the Native Americans speak to each other in the movies (especially 'Dances With Wolves'), when they are having a meeting. They are so respectful of each other. Each person says a few words, very brief and to the point. Then there is a moment of silent reflection. After that, another member of the tribe speaks. Maybe he speaks in this way, "So-and-so has spoken from his heart, and we can all hear the passion of his words, and admire his conviction. As you know, So-and-so and I often do not see eye to eye, and it is true that I am of a different opinion on this matter. But I have always respected his passion for what he believes is best." Then he goes on to make his own point, and he says maybe two short things, and is quiet. Again, there's a moment of silent reflection. Finally, the elder of the tribe speaks. He says, "Much has been said here, and there are points to be considered on both sides. It is very easy to get confused. We should talk about this some more. That is all I have to say."

I swear to god, it makes me cry when I watch those scenes. You just know these men are holding so much back. All of them could spin great persuasive arguments, and show all their feelings, all their cards. But they content themselves with making one or two short points, and have faith that they are heard. Somehow, it seems more effective than a great flood of words. In many words, we may make many good points, but people will often only remember the last thing we said, or the things we said which came from anger, and forget the causes we tried to indicate for our distress.

That's all I have to say for now, lol.

Love,
Steve

posted March 22, 2007 06:14 PM         

Mirandee,

Thank you for saying the things you said about understanding and forgiving me in time. Your good opinion of me is important to me, - though, it is true, I will always go my own way. I have made a general apology, and you know it extends to all the people I have hurt individually, and to you, Mirandee; I am sorry. I really am not expecting forgiveness at this time, or at any time. I am not even permitting myself to think about what I would do in your place. Truly, there is a part of me that feels I should not be here, and should leave LL. I would not object, if I was asked to leave.

I want you to know that I did not share any specific information about anything Lisa and I shared, other than to say that there have been "angry", "unfair" words, and more than a few apologies directed to me. I am uncomfortable repeating that now, but I am doing it to be honest about what I said here, and, besides, I can't let that cat out of the bag twice; now that it's out. I know I've already said too much. Your respect for Lisa's privacy is totally rubbing off on me. I really cannot tell you or her how regretful I feel.

Thank you for the kind things you said about my good heart and intentions. It makes me that much sorrier for having hurt you. I had been praying for weeks, asking God to humble me. Be careful what you pray for.

love
s

posted March 22, 2007 06:23 PM         

I understand what you are suggesting. Please, do not think my remorse is insincere, if I cannot bring myself to crawl through the mud right now, and dredge up all the things I cannot bear to look at or live with in myself. I think, if people's questions are still relevent, they will repeat them in the future, and I will answer them then. Is there something you wish to ask me?

I think I still owe TINK a response,
which I will get to shortly.

Eleanore, too.

posted March 22, 2007 07:48 PM         

Randall can now see that you are not only being disrespectful of the personal boundaries I have set for myself which you continue to cross, but you are also being disrespectful and ignoring one of his mods here at FFA.

You were not defending yourself against my "ire" and my personal attacks on you because there was none of that until you launched your personal attack on myself AND my daughter.

Keep in mind that I now have you pegged as a trouble maker and when I volunteered to be a mod here I stated firmly that I would see that the rules are followed on this board and put an end to the personal attacks.

posted March 22, 2007 08:04 PM         

I have no questions for you as I have walked many lonesome miles in your shoes

I am sure tink and Eleanore will be looking forward to your reply.

God Bless you Steve.

------------------
~
What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~

posted March 22, 2007 08:22 PM         

I'm sorry for everyone this got out of control,
and has not ceased to snowball.
I blame myself.

I hope we can let this go now.

posted March 22, 2007 08:30 PM         

quote:

---

Once again, MM as moderator at FFA I am telling, not asking, for you to GET OFF THIS THREAD!!!!!....Mirandee

---

quote:

---

If you wish to continue posting here at FFA you will comply to my wishes and get off this thread NOW!!!!...Mirandee

---

My my, isn't it a little early for you to be throwing your weight around Mirandee..or trying to? A petty little tyrant in the making here? A preview of coming events?

Considering your own conduct on this site, I would think you would want to soft-pedal your own belligerence, inflammatory rhetoric and threats. On my worst day, I don't recall ever trying to get anyone banned or even thrown off a forum or thread...or even complaining to Randall about anyone here.

But then, your thing always was to try to shut people up...at least those who disagree with you.

Perhaps there's a very good reason Randall hasn't made the moderator appointments official.

posted March 22, 2007 10:07 PM         

I am trying to keep the peace on this thread and stop the personal attacks. Of course, that is why you are here to pour fuel on the fire.