posted March 20, 2007 04:27 PM         

and some will see it, and agree...then you will know, you have Truth...

posted March 20, 2007 04:30 PM         

Now give me a hug and a kiss!!!!

I f*cking love you guys.

This is so funny to me.

posted March 20, 2007 04:32 PM         

quote:

---

What if I am right?
What if you are wrong?
What if.

---

posted March 20, 2007 04:32 PM         

I think that it is you, you, you who are wrong, wrong, wrong

hugs and kisses

posted March 20, 2007 04:38 PM         

This is where I get to the terrible 'however'....However! Just because something is logical does not mean it is right. Spirituality is a very personal thing - you seem to take a strong intellectual approach (again, not a criticism) but not everyone will respond to or understand such an approach. For many of us our 'book learning' is combined with very strong instincts - I can't always explain why I think and feel certain things which I know in my heart to be true. I've had too many experiences where I've ignored my 'higher self' and lived to regret it. Knowledge is nothing without love, compassion and understanding. We are all aiming for the same things in life and at times our ideas will meet; at other times they will diverge.

Keep the passion and reading going! I like to hear what you (and others have to say, otherwise I wouldn't be here!)just remeber -you can't change the world by yourself - accept this but also remain doing what you do for the good of all and I think you might find the inner peace missing in your life right now! Your birth chart, BTW is more than a bit bonkers - as someone with a truckload of scorp in my sign (and a soul which is often VERY restless) might I advise lots of 'down time'. Music, reading, socialising, praying...

Peace x

posted March 20, 2007 04:40 PM         

I'll kill myself!!!

Just kidding.

I don't know.

Who cares, lol.

posted March 20, 2007 04:48 PM         

Thank you for everything.
You make me feel understood.

In response to your "however"...
I do not expect you to know this, but,
I have stated numerous times that,
if someone admits the logic of my position,
and still wants to refute it on intuitive grounds,
I have no objection to that.
All I am saying is that it is illogical.
I do think that makes it wrong,
because I believe true intuitive perceptions do not contradict logic,
although they may tell us things logic cannot.

peace, love, empathy,
thanks for the advice,
I take frequent hot baths,
S

posted March 20, 2007 04:55 PM         

Thanks for the support.

Why the swearing?
Because it expresses passion.

posted March 20, 2007 04:58 PM         

I am absolutely not saying that I or Steve grew up in an environment like I described. So if anyone is attributing anything to this false belief or feeling such compassion and pity for me or Steve blah blah blah, sorry to mislead you.

If anyone has any doubts, I think Steve is 98% correct in everything he says and when I read posts that say they didn't bother to actually READ what he posted, but still disagree, my mouth drops open and I think you have all gone insane.

BR, go back about 5 of my posts and start from there and I have faith that you will understand some if you try. I can't cover decades of observations but I would love to answer any specific questions so I can have an idea where to start sharing.

I learn from all of you (in different ways), but when I join with Steve, my Vision is immediately back to Ultimate Clarity. He's like a freakin' med-pack in a video game. Power UP. The only time his words aren't clear to me is when I am too tired to comprehend what I read.
He isn't perfect, but so what?

You want to know my view of this? Out of the endless points and arguments he makes, someone else might make one point that might cause him to sit down and think and at that moment, someone is RIGHT THERE to give enough of a push to make him wobble. Then there are those, for whatever their motives... who descend like vultures.

Be VERY PROUD of who you are, Steve. You deserve it. You have done Good Work. I am proud of you. Thank you for lifting me Higher so many times.

# One man cannot hold another man down in the ditch without remaining down in the ditch with him.

# You can't hold a man down without staying down with him.

# There is no power on earth that can neutralize the influence of a high, simple and useful life.

# There are two ways of exerting one's strength: one is pushing down, the other is pulling up.

# Few things can help an individual more than to place responsibility on him, and to let him know that you trust him.

posted March 20, 2007 04:59 PM         

hehe, you don't need to swear to show your passion, don't worry, it shows, loud and clear...

LOts of LOve to ALL

posted March 20, 2007 05:01 PM         

quote:

---

He's like a freakin' med-pack in a video game. Power UP.

---

You shameless flatterer you.
I don't believe a word of it.

posted March 20, 2007 05:03 PM         

Perhaps.

But, then, I still feel,

"Sometimes you just have to say 'What the f*ck,'".
- Risky Business

posted March 20, 2007 05:08 PM         

What do you mean?

BTW,
the objections you made show you don't grasp what determinism is saying.

Everything will be what it will be,
but we are still going to play our part in the Great Work.
Try as you might,
the only way to get off stage,
or not to speak the lines in the script,
is to kill yourself.
But that is also in the script.

Everything is determined,
but we can't know which of our actions will make a difference.
We can't know who is open and who is not,
or when we will say something that will make the lightbulb go on.

I accept everyone where they are.
I provoke everyone to grow.
There is no contradiction here.

"Mother God loves unconditionally.
Father God makes impossible demands.
Where they meet a Messiah is born."

posted March 20, 2007 05:08 PM         

So some of us are determinists, and some of us are relativists, and some of us are in categories all of their own (in the most wonderful way possible).

So what?

At the point that you see that people are going to think about things the way they think about things, let it be so. If s/he don't like your soup, s/he ain't gonna drink it. The end.

In the words of one of my favourite authors,

"His philosophy was a mixture of three famous schools -- the Cynics, the Stoics and the Epicureans -- and summed up all three of them in his famous phrase, "You can't trust any bugger further than you can throw him, and there's nothing you can do about it, so let's have a drink."
-- Dydactylos the philosopher (Small Gods)

Sincerely yrs,

posted March 20, 2007 05:22 PM         

Hi.

quote:

---

So what?

---

Determinism has the benefit of being true, for one thing.
And it leads to profound understanding and insight into human motives/human nature,
as well as the connectedness of the universe.

Determinists never blame anyone.
Determinists understand everything is what it is,
and everyone is who they are.
Determinists seek to help people grow,
not punish them for being flawed.

"Free will" is untrue,
and is used to justify abandoning,
blaming, hating, condemning, and punishing others.
It leads inevitably to violence and war.
It distorts perceptions of God and people.
It distorts, if not prevents entirely,
the mystical experience of Oneness.

posted March 20, 2007 05:25 PM         

Just a thought - what if our existence is an accident? What if we are the result of some big cosmic sneeze?! I like to think there is more to life for many reasons and you make a strong argument...but what if? (I was told once, during a deep bit of meditating that the 'what if' is the bread and butter of spiritual development. We must question, question and question again...but we must also learn from these questions otherwise they serve only to demoralise)

As you say - lets keep it dynamic, lets get things balanced but suggesting Determanism is the ONLY WAY is neither balanced or healthy.

posted March 20, 2007 05:28 PM         

you choose to do what you do...
right?

No One makes you do it...

that is why it is called Free Wi11

a free gift, of choice

be Light, or be it Dark....

you chose it, with your Free Wi11. ...

that is the Truth...