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Topic: Adult ADHD
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Xena Moderator Posts: 398 From: UK Registered: Jun 2006
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posted March 27, 2007 10:43 AM
I don't believe this condition exists - I, for one, function best in chaos - see last paragraph of the article (which is a huge long one, and testament to the abilities of *good PR*). Since when are many of the so-called "problems" below necessarily an issue in the wider sense? The anal retentives who write this stuff clearly could not cope if their little world was disordered. This is treating adults like children; or, alternatively, a "them-and-us" mentality. ![](http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/thumbsdown.gif) Xena Adult ADD / ADHD: Recognizing the Symptoms and Managing the Effects Adults who have difficulty with time or money management, organization, or communication skills may discover that they actually have a brain difference as the source. This discovery can be a relief, as there are many coping skills that can be developed, once their ADD / ADHD is identified. This article addresses many aspects of recognizing ADD / ADHD in adults, two separate articles address managing adult ADD / ADHD without drugs. What are the signs and symptoms of adult ADD / ADHD? ADD / ADHD in adults can seriously impair work, finances, and relationships. Adults with ADD / ADHD may have the following symptoms of inattention and hyperactivity / impulsivity: not remembering being told something, "zoning out" in conversations, being late or forgetting to show up when expected, speaking without thinking, pressured rapid-fire speech, seemingly random, and aimless hopping from one topic to the next, perceived as aloof and arrogant, or tiresomely talkative and boorish, compulsive joking, often about personal life history and feelings, easily frustrated or bored, leaving a mess, procrastination (difficulty starting tasks), incompletions (starting tasks, household projects, or book reading, but not completing them before new projects or new books are begun, leaving a never-ending to-do list), underestimating the time needed to finish a task, insecurity and self-esteem issues because of unmet high personal expectations, and often a high achiever, even an overachiever, but with poor self-image because of beliefs that more could be accomplished if not for disorganization. (Sources: The Learning Disabilities Association of Canada; Gabor Maté (author of Scattered), and Hallowell and Ratey (authors of Driven to Distraction)) How is adult ADD / ADHD different from childhood ADD / ADHD? As someone with ADD / ADHD develops from a child into a teenager and then into an adult, the symptoms of ADD / ADHD look different. Often the hyperactivity of childhood evolves into more impulsive behaviors. And executive function (self-regulation) impairment takes the forefront as the individual copes with the complexity of life. Hyperactivity may appear as: uncontrolled arousal, feeling overwhelmed, and talking excessively. Impulsiveness may look like: irritability, quick anger, inadequate censorship of rude or insulting thoughts, and poor timing in interactions. Inattentiveness may show itself as: unwilled tuning-out, the inability to focus on mundane tasks, and the tendency to hyperfocus on interesting tasks. While adults with ADHD may often have great difficulty maintaining attention, those same individuals might be able to focus with great intensity and for long periods on tasks or projects that hold interest for them—even compulsively engaged in the activity for long hours and with lack of awareness of the time or of other responsibilities. Because of this ability to “hyperfocus” and the potential for significant related accomplishments, some adults with ADD-like behaviors (such as Da Vinci, Einstein, and Churchill) are highly successful doctors, lawyers, teachers, athletes, scientists, politicians, and artists. How does executive functioning relate to adult ADD / ADHD? According to Thomas E. Brown, Ph.D., at the Yale University School of Medicine, "ADHD is essentially a name for developmental impairment of executive function." Five symptom clusters that reflect executive functioning problems are consistently reported by adults with ADHD: problems getting organized, prioritizing, and activating tasks; difficulty sustaining focus and attention, especially with reading; trouble sustaining alertness, effort, processing speed, and motivation; issues related to affect, such as preventing anger from getting out of control; deficits in working memory (the ability to hold something in mind while doing something else) and memory retrieval. The pre-frontal cortex of the brain is responsible for “executive functions” – the skills involved in planning, organization, selective attention, and inhibitory controls. They include such abilities as: impulse control, resistance to distraction, delay of gratification, self-regulation and self-control, and motivation and persistence. Adults with ADD / ADHD struggle daily with self-regulation: regulating their attention, regulating their impulses in talking and action, and regulating their emotions. What signs and symptoms of ADD / ADHD are specific to women? Girls have ADHD without the hyperactivity more often than do boys, and girls are often not diagnosed until the teenage years or later. Instead, they may be seen as talkative, tomboyish (particularly for those who DO have hyperactivity), flighty (because of distractibility, and starting numerous projects simultaneously), or flaky (due to impulsivity and incompletion of projects). Some girls may have impulse control problems, and get into fights with others, causing them to be labeled as “difficult” or “emotional,” rather than as having a condition rooted in the brain. Thus, when girls grow into women, they may not have had a diagnosis of ADD or ADHD. They may find themselves facing the same challenges as men with ADD / ADHD: the social difficulties, the time management problems, the financial disorganization, the lack of a feeling of having control over their lives. However, because women are often expected to multi-task and to handle a variety of work, family, and community roles, women may have several additional problems: Perfectionism (“Superwoman Syndrome”) – Many women feel that they need to do things extremely well, to the point of stress or burnout. Women with ADD / ADHD may find they cannot meet even their most modest self-expectations, and their sense of self further deteriorates. Shame, embarrassment, and guilt – Cultural expectations of women often create humiliation for those with ADD / ADHD. They may have difficulty getting children to school on time or providing a consistent structure for homework. They may not want visitors to their home because of the chaotic state. Depression – While males might “act out” their symptoms of ADHD, females often internalize their stress, leading to symptoms of depression. Anxiety – Women often feel that they need to appear to be “twice as good” as men to be treated as equals. This can lead to a great source of distress for those who are already having trouble keeping things together. Dual careers – Women are often responsible for a job outside of the home, in addition to having the primary responsibility for childcare, housework, cooking, shopping, and family social planning. For a woman who has difficulties with organization and follow-through, these additional roles are additional stressors. Single-parenting – When marriages end in divorce, women are far more likely to be the primary (or sole) parent. The financial, disciplinary, and other responsibilities mount, straining an already challenged mother with ADD / ADHD. Hormones – In women without ADD / ADHD, hormonal cycles often bring moodiness, tension, and a sense of being “out of control.” Menopause often brings additional stressors of forgetfulness and “craziness.” Any or all of these symptoms are exaggerated for women who have ADD / ADHD. How does adult ADD / ADHD affect eating behaviors? The impulsivity that sometimes accompanies Adult ADD / ADHD may extend to eating, and many adults who have ADD / ADHD suffer from overeating, obesity, or disordered eating. Kathleen G. Nadeau talks about the connection between ADHD (ADD) and disordered eating: Healthy dietary regulation requires organization and planning - two areas of cognitive functioning that are typically difficult for those with ADD (ADHD). Good eating habits also require self-awareness - awareness of when one is hungry, awareness of when one is full. Many adults with ADD (ADHD) report that they skip meals because they were busy and distracted; these same individuals often report that later their hunger becomes so intense that they swing in the opposite direction, overeating well beyond the point of reasonable intake because they don't know when to stop until they feel "stuffed." And adults eat for many reasons besides hunger - including boredom, self-stimulation, anger, sadness, reward, simple food availability, and stress relief. It is easy to understand how consistent self-regulation, which is a well-documented difficulty for those with ADD (ADHD), can lead to patterns of chronic over-eating. Adults with ADD / ADHD may have no regularly planned meals and eat fast-food snacks and meals throughout the day; find that they do not have the ability to stick with a dietary regimen to lose weight; have cravings for certain foods, such as carbohydrates (sugars and starches) and caffeine (in coffee and chocolate); fast and binge, mistakenly thinking that skipping meals is good for you, then overeat at the next meal; and not pay enough attention to hunger signs, wait until it’s too late to plan a healthy meal, and then eat junk food to satisfy the hunger. What money management problems do adults with ADD / ADHD have? The ADD / ADHD symptoms of procrastination, disorganization, and impulsivity can interfere with good money management. Adults with ADD / ADHD may find that they: forget to pay bills, run up huge balances on their credit cards, cannot save money, are unable to follow through on long-term financial goals, shop impulsively, have difficulty keeping financial paperwork in order, and fail at budgeting and recordkeeping. Why do so many people recognize their symptoms of ADD / ADHD only in adulthood? Many people learn that they have ADD / ADHD when they become adults. This late recognition of the symptoms of ADD / ADHD may be because: Only recently has it become public knowledge that ADHD is not always outgrown and can persist into adulthood. By the time they are adults, people have developed many compensations for their ADHD symptoms, and they may not see themselves as different from other people. In many cases, adults self-medicate to compensate for or mask the symptoms of ADHD. People are not well enough educated about ADHD to recognize the symptoms. Some adults first find out that they have ADD or ADHD when their children receive a diagnosis of ADD / ADHD: they then become educated about the condition and realize that they also have it. Other adults have so many problems in their relationships that they finally seek professional help, and the practitioner suggests that they have ADHD. Still others learn about ADHD from the media and then seek a diagnosis. Many adults feel relieved when they find out they have ADD or ADHD. A lifetime of struggle is suddenly explained. What does Helpguide provide to assist you in managing adult ADHD without drugs? Self-Help for Adult ADD / ADHD provides a comprehensive collection of tips, strategies and practices Professional Help for Adults with ADD / ADHD provides a both a guide and resources to make practical, everyday changes with the help of trained professionals. See Helpguide's ADD / ADHD Series contents below for all articles in the series. What are some positive aspects of having ADD / ADHD? Adults with ADD can be very fun to be with! Some of the positive traits are: Creativity – Daydreaming and attending to many different thoughts at once can be just the right trait for creative problem-solving. People with ADD are often excellent at brainstorming ideas. Because they do not choose which ideas to focus on too early, they are more open to considering all ideas, to engaging in divergent thinking. Such thinking allows for rare insights in such fields as art, music, and science. Creative thinking is especially useful to inventors, entertainers, comedians, and medical doctors. Enthusiasm, spontaneity, liveliness, flexibility – Attending to a lot of thoughts at once can provide lively conversation for others who associate with the person with ADD. Hyperfocus, high energy, tenacity and drive – If something is interesting to a person with ADD, there may be no way to distract them from the task! This is particularly true of interactive or hands-on activities. Intelligence – Some adults with ADD are extremely bright or gifted. Could ADHD actually be a gift? In 1993, Thom Hartmann proposed that the “condition” of ADHD is actually a gift, a 10,000 year old leftover of hunters in a farmer’s world. According to his explanation, the problem lies more with our current cultural expectations and with our schools (designed by and for “farmers” – those who plan ahead tend their fields carefully) than with the child whose brain, for whatever reason, is more like that of the hunter: scanning the environment (for prey) the ability fall into a dream-like state for long periods (during down periods) the ability to become suddenly hyperfocused and thrive on danger and excitement (the hunt) The modern hunter “… is hunting in a metaphorical sense. Hunting for excitement. Hunting for the prize: the cure for cancer or the truth in the theory of global warming. Hunting for the mental or physical stimulation to mimic the hunt of our ancestors. Entrepreneurs are a good example.” IP: Logged |
Swerve Knowflake Posts: 1249 From: London Registered: Nov 2002
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posted March 27, 2007 01:20 PM
I'm afraid I disagree completely.Thom Hartmann's work is very good if you read it in detail. His stance is that people are labelled too easily and called defective, with many "ADD" children medicated on assumption of being dysfunctional. There already is an "us" and "them" and it's those who don't have trouble in this society that are judging, not the other way around. I have been diagnosed with Adult ADD and know very well the trouble and stress it can cause. Swerve IP: Logged |
AcousticGod Knowflake Posts: 11943 From: Pleasanton, CA, USA Registered: May 2005
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posted March 27, 2007 02:24 PM
I agree with Swerve.IP: Logged |
Xena Moderator Posts: 398 From: UK Registered: Jun 2006
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posted March 27, 2007 04:16 PM
Erm, no, Swerve, I still don't get why you allow yourself to be diagnosed with *a problem* as such. Why not say to these people...where's the problem? It seems to me rather a ball and chain, don't you think?? Why should ADD necessarily cause trouble and strife? It's up to those of us who are tapped into something altogether more exciting to challenge and mystify the ueber-logic that surrounds us. To brighten with our force of nature, for want of a better word. I like the farmer/hunter quote of the last paragraph - I mean, I'm definetely not a farmer, I'm an opportunist. *Farming* would drive me mad. I'll read Thom Hartmann, though I find the reiterated *reliance on science* doubtful. Apparently I fit all the ADHD criteria - was I just lucky that my parents instinctively recognized their own characters in me and subconsciously protected me from intervention? It's a question of CHARACTER. Not of CHEMICALS. "Diagnosing with a condition *such as ADHD*" is an outdated and unhealthy way of looking at people, and unfit for the 21st century. Prepare to meet the new world!!!!! No, I'm not mad. Xena IP: Logged |
Focused Chi Knowflake Posts: 83 From: A quiet place ignoring his 20' tall fire breathing EGO Registered: Dec 2005
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posted March 27, 2007 04:28 PM
Those characteristics describe me quite well.I have often wondered where the source of my greatness comes from. It is clear to me now, my "gift" could be the gift of ADHD. ROFL Im with you Xena ------------------ "Your life is what your thoughts make it." ~Marcus Aurelius IP: Logged |
Swerve Knowflake Posts: 1249 From: London Registered: Nov 2002
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posted March 27, 2007 09:57 PM
Actually Xena, we might not be on opposite sides of this at all.I agree that the labelling aspect if used to discriminate is wrong, but many people find it useful to have something to understand themselves better. Thom Hartmann's work is very interesting as I said, but far from being anything like a proven theory. It seems you had a supportive environment where as most aren't that lucky. I find that I cannot concnetrate when I want to and forget things very easily, which almost feels like groundhog day. I was hyperactive as a child and could not fulfil many tasks I was intellectually capable of doing, plus moods were affected as well. The worst part for a child or young adult growing up is th social awkwardness they experience because they are impulsive and not particularly socially graceful. This can cause anything from depression to suicide. This leads to stress because people around you find it hard to accept or believe that you aren't acting this way through laziness or choice, which is indescribably frustrating. You seem very dismissive of other people's experiences. It's very easy to say "oh, I'm like that - what's the big deal?" - without experiencing the "symptoms" in a way that can disrupt one's life. Much like Focused Chi has demonstrated. Swerve IP: Logged |
AcousticGod Knowflake Posts: 11943 From: Pleasanton, CA, USA Registered: May 2005
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posted March 27, 2007 11:53 PM
I haven't been officially diagnosed with it, but my girlfriend has read me the symptoms and many of them fit with me. I personally think it has to do with having a highly Mutable chart, and that is my means of dealing with those challenges. If I didn't have astrology, though, and my symptoms were worse, I'd be relieved to find out I had ADD. Having a definition of any problem helps me immensely. I used to have panic attacks, and once I learned what they were they stopped happening almost altogether. IP: Logged |
lotusheartone Knowflake Posts: 238 From: MOther & Father GOd Registered: Feb 2008
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posted March 28, 2007 12:08 AM
Did any of you see the movie SuperStar?anyway, her grandmother speaks up fo her, when the school wants to put her on ritilin, and she basically says.... the good Lord made her, just as she should be...why should anyone want to change that? We, are who we are, accept and overcome, medications, only cover up the problem, make things easier, so we think. ... my two cents ![](http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/chat.gif) IP: Logged |
AcousticGod Knowflake Posts: 11943 From: Pleasanton, CA, USA Registered: May 2005
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posted March 28, 2007 12:19 AM
I'm not firm on an opinion on any medication. If it works for the person, then that's good. If the person can't handle it, or doesn't feel themselves, then I don't think they should have to take it.IP: Logged |
starr33 Moderator Posts: 474 From: My Mother Registered: Oct 2006
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posted March 28, 2007 12:40 AM
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AcousticGod Knowflake Posts: 11943 From: Pleasanton, CA, USA Registered: May 2005
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posted March 28, 2007 12:54 AM
That was a good read. ![](http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/thumbsup.gif) IP: Logged |
starr33 Moderator Posts: 474 From: My Mother Registered: Oct 2006
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posted March 28, 2007 03:16 AM
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AcousticGod Knowflake Posts: 11943 From: Pleasanton, CA, USA Registered: May 2005
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posted March 28, 2007 04:13 AM
Great stuff. Definitely see a lot of myself in those words.IP: Logged |
Swerve Knowflake Posts: 1249 From: London Registered: Nov 2002
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posted March 28, 2007 06:42 AM
Thanks Starr!That's really interesting reading. I'd love to share experiences of ADD with others who have it because sometimes it's feels so isolating and confusing. Swerve IP: Logged |
Xena Moderator Posts: 398 From: UK Registered: Jun 2006
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posted March 28, 2007 05:47 PM
Hi Swerve, I'll take up some of your points: *It seems you had a supportive environment where as most aren't that lucky. In one sense, yes, but I got a lot of stick from my parents DESPITE the fact they were like that themselves, and from the school. I also continually get comments from potential employers on my varied CV. Eventually I figured the best way for me to function was the "non-traditional" way, so I am trying to harness my energy to benefit me. I do feel like I have different brain chemistry from other people sometimes - cetain inhibitory factors just aren't there, and I don't care, either (I have never taken drugs). *I find that I cannot concnetrate when I want to and forget things very easily, which almost feels like groundhog day. I was hyperactive as a child and could not fulfil many tasks I was intellectually capable of doing, plus moods were affected as well. The word "task" is an interesting one. It implies a necessity. Are so-called ADHD-ers far happier when they are doing something *ordinary mortals* might deem unnecessary, for example? To get tasks done, I make checklists and day planners at the start of the day. I usually find I get about 66% of my intended work done, on average, and I am actually very discplined and self-motivated - but ONLY on things I like doing. I consciously try to assess where I went wrong and learn from past mistakes (not very Arien, I'll admit), but, yes, I'll admit decisions are often more of a risk for me than for someone who has a pile fo data to back decisions up. I have tended to make decisions intuitively. Sometimes, I'm right. *The worst part for a child or young adult growing up is th social awkwardness they experience because they are impulsive and not particularly socially graceful. This can cause anything from depression to suicide. I think a lot of people feel like that, unless they "fit in"; 16-21 is the most difficult age to be. But affectation of social graces can take decades to perfect. *This leads to stress because people around you find it hard to accept or believe that you aren't acting this way through laziness or choice, which is indescribably frustrating. Well, actually, I have acted that way through laziness or choice, and I realised my own downfall at 21. So I stopped listening to other people and did what I had to do. *You seem very dismissive of other people's experiences. It's very easy to say "oh, I'm like that - what's the big deal?" - without experiencing the "symptoms" in a way that can disrupt one's life. Much like Focused Chi has demonstrated. Sure, but why dwell on the symptoms as a potential disruptive force? BTW, I appreciate what you have to say. Love, Xena IP: Logged |
starr33 Moderator Posts: 474 From: My Mother Registered: Oct 2006
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posted March 28, 2007 06:10 PM
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Swerve Knowflake Posts: 1249 From: London Registered: Nov 2002
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posted March 28, 2007 06:14 PM
Hi Xena,It's nice to hear you have such a positive handle on the situation, I genuinely mean that. But, I just am very mindful of those who are in situations that are much harder to overcome or for whom being different means that their self-esteem is reduced to nothing. It is worth remembering however that many times ADD is co-morbid with other "dysfunctions" and this only serves to exacerbate the situation and overwhelm them. I feel these are the people in danger of slipping into "the pit". I was concerned that anyone reading your original post looking for guidance at such at time might have been knocked back a little to be told it was all in their mind. Do you see? I know you meant no harm, but we have to be careful because you never know who's reading what's written. I hope I don't sound like I'm preaching, it's just that I have experienced that ghastly place myself a few times and I know that a positive outlook alone is not enough to pull yourself back out. Swerve IP: Logged |
starr33 Moderator Posts: 474 From: My Mother Registered: Oct 2006
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posted March 28, 2007 11:03 PM
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AcousticGod Knowflake Posts: 11943 From: Pleasanton, CA, USA Registered: May 2005
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posted March 28, 2007 11:27 PM
This is great. My girlfriend said that this was one of the books she had to get. Her's is filled with post-it notes holding pertinent places.IP: Logged |
starr33 Moderator Posts: 474 From: My Mother Registered: Oct 2006
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posted March 29, 2007 12:00 AM
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AcousticGod Knowflake Posts: 11943 From: Pleasanton, CA, USA Registered: May 2005
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posted March 29, 2007 12:16 AM
Ah! I don't remember my Numerology numbers off the top of my head.IP: Logged |
Xena Moderator Posts: 398 From: UK Registered: Jun 2006
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posted March 29, 2007 07:49 AM
Well, I have a chart full of Mutable signs (practically a Mutable Grand Cross): Asc in Virgo. Moon, Venus, Jupiter & Desc in Pisces, in the 6th. Mars and Saturn in Gemini in the 10th. Neptune in Sag in the 3rd. Add to that Pluto in the 1st (in Libra), Uranus in the 2nd (in Libra) and Sun & Merc in the 8th (in Aries). I have no fixed signs, and apart from Virgo (the least "earth"-y sign) no Earth at all. I feel absolutely no connections with "the home" as such, kids, or anything domestic. My parents each have about 4 planets in Taurus and although entrepreneurial themselves (they are both solar Fire Signs)- they had absolutely no idea what to do with me!!! My birthday number adds up to 9, my birthdate gives the Life Path Number 7. Go figure. I think it could be a Gem/Pisces/ Mutable sign thing? But perhaps that's a question for the Astrology section. IP: Logged |
starr33 Moderator Posts: 474 From: My Mother Registered: Oct 2006
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posted March 29, 2007 08:10 PM
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starr33 Moderator Posts: 474 From: My Mother Registered: Oct 2006
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posted March 29, 2007 10:54 PM
Oh yeah, I also have Neptune in the third.IP: Logged |
AcousticGod Knowflake Posts: 11943 From: Pleasanton, CA, USA Registered: May 2005
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posted March 30, 2007 01:08 AM
I looked at Delivered From Distraction for awhile today while waiting for my oil to get changed. It was good. I'd like to get it on audio.IP: Logged | |