posted May 03, 2007 01:59 PM         

Thanks for your message. Guess we think alike. It is important that we speak up. Because changes can be made. Positive attracts positive. You are right. Sometimes it is one step forward and two steps back. But the steps have to be taken. You have to try. After lots of "one steps forwards", the good stuff eventually kicks in. All of a sudden, and you aren't quite sure how or when it started happening, the snowball builds up the other way - the good way. And then the good stuff piles on. xo Key

posted May 03, 2007 02:05 PM         

quote:

---

But, my great faith in myself, and my feeling that I am deeply misunderstood and absurdly under-appreciated, is not a deluded attempt to overcompensate for a disappointing hand dealt to me. It is the natural result of being gifted with uncommon passion and truly rare insight into the nature of things, in a world which undervalues these gifts, and makes it nearly impossible for me to be true to myself and happy at the same time.

And I do listen to what people have to say. I listen, and I respond directly to what they have said. Most times they dont respond back, or, if they do, don't mention my responses, unless it is to complain that I did not change my mind. They rarely change theirs either, but not, I think, for good reasons, which they are reluctant or unable to produce. Can I help it if my ideas are so consistently opposed to others'? Can I help it if I have spent a great deal of time arriving at and refining my ideas, so that it might take a really solid argument to tear me away from them? You think I am close minded. I think I am so open minded it scares people. I dont just listen to your point of view, I empathize with it, I take it up, and proceed to flesh it out with arguments which you yourself are either unaware of, or unwilling to produce. Then, I proceed to find the flaws in it, and I return to my own point of view, which is extremely well developed and hard to find holes in. Your frustration with being unable to dislodge me from my place is not on account of any stubborn unwillingness to listen on my part, but, more likely, on account of the fact that I pose a challenge to your beliefs which you are unlikely to admit is very real indeed.

---

The problem, HSC,is that you feel that you are the only one on the planet granted those insights, which really are not as rare as you would like to think as you are not the only human being that God speaks to inwardly and grants the graces of those insights. The problem is that you assume that you are also the only person on the planet with passion for their beliefs or passion of any kind. Hence whenever anyone else displays their passion you take it as a personal attack or it is just being plain mean. Whereas, with you it is different being the "gifted" person you are. You are not the only human being that sees that the world today does not value things like morality and principals or the wrongs in the world. From all the posts here by many, many other people at LL I can see that they possess the same gifts of vision that you deem as rare and only meted out to you.

As for the second post, no you do not listen to what others have to say if it does agree with your thoughts and opinions. You answer them only to tell them that they cannot possibly understand or see because they do not possess your great genius intellect. You can ask anyone here who has ever been in a discussion with you on these threads and they will tell you the same thing. In fact the last discussion they all did and you took that as a personal attack. We can't ALL be wrong, HSC.

Another problem that you have, HSC is that,sadly you find flaws in everything and everyone. That is why you may doomed to a life without a mate and alone. You find a woman and think this is it. But once you discover that she does not live up to that ideal image you seek, once you discover that she is not a perfect human being but has flaws you begin to criticize her and dissect her and as Tink said in so many words, shoot yourself in the foot once again and push her away. Yet at the same time you expect everyone else to love you and accept you as you are. You don't want people to try and change you. No one can really because change comes from inside us. But what I am saying is that you don't want to change. You want others to adjust and change for you. Accommodate you.

In other words in a world of mundane, average people with average or less than average intelligence than you possess you are the one perfect human being who sees all, knows all, and is always right. You really have no use for us mere mortals with all our flaws and imperfections except to serve you, praise you, agree with you and look up to you as the shining example for all of us. That is what you project on these threads at any rate.

Your points of views do have holes in them. You just refuse to see the holes when they are pointed out to you because that would make you possibly wrong and your ego cannot deal with that. All you know comes from the mind and what you have read and studied from mere human beings just giving their own views, thoughts and opinions about life. Philosophers. None of your views reflect the wisdom that can only from the heart. That can only come from your heart and your spirituality and relationship with God. Your ego does not allow God to speak within you. He can't get past it either.

You have a superiority complex, HSC and it is huge. That is why I and some others will eventually back off and just ignore and not comment on what you have to say. You attempt to force your viewpoints on us and if we refuse to relinquish our own spirituality and beliefs we are just, well, morons who cannot comprehend at the level that you can.

posted May 03, 2007 02:46 PM         

I just got so sad when I read what you endured.
I don't even know what to say.
Where are your parents so I can kill them?

Kidding. Sort of.

I can't believe people do that to children, every day.
I can't deal with that thought,
I can't get my head around it,
let alone my heart.

It makes me want to work with children;
I used to want to work with children,
and it makes me want to do that again.

I know it's the parents who need the work,
but instead they send the kids.

I'm so sorry you went through that.
I dont even know....

I know you didnt tell me that to get sympathy.

It makes me never want to be mean or rude to anybody,
when I think what they might have endured as a child.

I'm sure you are a very good mother.

posted May 03, 2007 02:50 PM         

"IT IS NOT WHAT YOU THINK, IT IS WHAT YOU DO."

I try hard to live that way. You can think and think and think, but in the end - you have to take action to make changes.

posted May 03, 2007 02:50 PM         

"IT IS NOT WHAT YOU THINK, IT IS WHAT YOU DO."

I try hard to live that way. You can think and think and think, but in the end - you have to take action to make changes.

posted May 03, 2007 03:02 PM         

Then do it. Work with children. It will help get you out of yourself.

posted May 03, 2007 03:10 PM         

And I think those things are fine.
I think I set a fine example, in that regard.
You disagee. That's cool.
Go set your own example.

posted May 03, 2007 03:11 PM         

In my life, I have heard enough "talk the talk but no walk the walk". Just like to see you do some walking. That's all.

Not trying to hurt your feelings.

posted May 03, 2007 03:23 PM         

Thank you. And you're right, I didn't tell you that for sympathy. I told you because I am living proof it can be done. You can change, you can be who you are supposed/meant to be. It's hard work. It's painful sometimes for me to share these things, especially online, when in my home growing up it was "you don't cry or I'll give you something to cry about." The only emotions that were acceptable were anger and fear (which are two facets of the same emotion) I have trust issues, as one might imagine. THough I am much better about those things now. My mother was an alcoholic who just got rid of the alcohol and kept all the other abuse that comes with it. My father was the enabler. He used to tell me that I lied, when I attempted to ask for help from him by telling him about the verbal/emotional abuse that she gave to me. He didn't want to believe me, because that would mean looking hard at himself, and her too. That would mean it wasnt' just ME looking for attention, which was what I was told. I just was a drama queen. Yes twelve year old girls who write suicide letters and give them to their parents are just looking for attention. I hated myself for a long time. I wanted to die. I never could quite attempt it though. Too much of a coward I guess.

Why am I telling you all this? Because I know it sucks, when you hurt and you think no one loves you, and you think you are unloveable. And you wish you could just cease to exist so that you dont' have to get up another time and just hold on until you can go to bed.

I've been there.

I had to let it go, so that I could live. It has taken me the better part of a decade, and part of that has been me disowning my family. I don't interact with any of them anymore. That's why it was so hard for me to go to my grandmother's funeral. It was the first time in years I had seen my parents. My grandmother was the last person, of four people who were a safe place for me to go to, and a loving and secure environment. You know the way that parents are supposed to be. Loving, patient and kind. Giving, supporting. She was the last one and now she's gone. So you see I am re working all this again in my own head. It never goes away, it just goes into remission.

We have choices to make. We can let it poison us forever, or we can let it go and heal ourselves. Because no one else can do it. We have to do it. Other people can help. We have to do the bulk of the work.

I hope you find your way out of it. I truly do. I will keep you in my evening meditationals.

Be LOVED.
Amanda

posted May 03, 2007 03:55 PM         

GG,

I know that you are a very good mom. I know all that you do for your kids and with your kids. I love that you become one of them and play with them as you do. Even creating little characters for them to stimulate their imagination.

However, as you said, all moms make mistakes. We learn along with our kids and they are great teachers!

I agree with Key in what she said about how you have overcome that and it only served to make you the strong, caring, loving and compassionate person that you are today. And like Key, people like you who had to carry those types of crosses in life and yet overcame them are my heroes and heroines as well.

posted May 03, 2007 04:35 PM         

Especially GG. It takes guts to tell your history, especially when it isn't all that great. You do it in the chance it may help someone else. Way back when, when I felt down and out - I listened to others who made it through okay. Hope. Direction. Sometimes you need a helping hand in life. That helping hand might come from a stranger.

HSC - Being a moderator is a big deal around here. Lots of people spend time here. You have the power to delete posts, recommend or ban people from the site, etc. You are not the president of the US or anything, but what you post carries a little more weight - just because you are a moderator. Doesn't mean you can't make mistakes, like the rest of us. Still, I think you have to be a little more careful because you are a moderator.

posted May 04, 2007 08:53 AM         

{{{ }}}

posted May 04, 2007 10:03 AM         

Thank you for your thoughtful and open response. I am glad that you do feel comfortable sharing these things right now. The more I hear, the more my heart aches, but I know that these are growing pains; it only aches because it expands.

Somehow, when people tell me that "everyone suffers", it feels like I am being coldly hushed, and only increases my feelings of isolation and being misunderstood, but, when someone actually commiserates, and shares their personal struggle with me, I am comforted, humbled, and brought out of myself for a while. You did for me what nobody on this thread could do. Thank you.

I also want to thank you for your warm concern and words of wisdom. I am humbled to think of you remembering me in your "meditationals". Suddenly, my problems do not seem so bad, or so worthy of attention.

I am sorry to hear of the passing of your grandmother,
whose presence in your life was truly significant,
in a way that few people can understand.

Incidentally, it is alledged by some astrologers
that Pluto in the chart signifies the grandmother.
I always had a little difficulty with this one,
on account of there being two grandmothers in a person's life,
and only one Pluto in their chart.
But I'm not sure.

posted May 04, 2007 10:12 AM         

quote:

---

Somehow, when people tell me that "everyone suffers", it feels like I am being coldly hushed, and only increases my feelings of isolation and being misunderstood, but, when someone actually commiserates, and shares their personal struggle with me, I am comforted, humbled, and brought out of myself for a while.

---

posted May 04, 2007 10:24 AM         

Stephen, once again, airing confidences that I innocently entrusted you with in friendship, to aid yourself in whatever current war of words your in, is not cool.
Frankly, it's incondsiderate and exploitave as well as disrespectful to the honor of trust I bestowed to you. I don't give that trust away easily and its a sacred thing to me. Something I consiously am very focused on respecting of others when they entrust me. I consider it an honor and treat it cherishingly. I hope others return the same.

Considering the timing, I'm aware of the restraint you probably summoned in other ways, and I'm grateful for that,
but still.
Now I'm thrust in a position to defend my mother's parenting before all of LL???

Oh, yay.

Let's see, what did I tell you?
Oh. Sometimes (not always) when I'm hurting and down, my Mom reacts in anger...which, when your feeling that way, only pulls you more inward, like being kicked when you are down. And sometimes makes me feel not accepted for my sensitivity...as if there's something wrong with me for it.
But I also mentioned to you at the time, that I'm aware, that's it's because of how much she cares for me, and how it hurts her to see me suffering. So she gets mad about it. I know she's not mad at me.
She's mad that I am hurt.

posted May 04, 2007 10:25 AM         

I have been extremely blessed having her for a Mom and I would never trade her for another. She is my friend, which I'm aware is a rare gift. I treasure that friendship. I could go on and on with examples, but I'll leave it at that. She's not perfect, neither am I. I admire her greatly. When I was a kid and she might have been too harsh or whatever, she'd come to me after and apologize, comfort and hug me...admit her mistake. How beautiful and rare is that from a parent? She made sure to give me that gift of knowledge....that being an adult doesn't make one infallible.
Question authority! Follow your own mind and heart. She has always believed in me. She always had faith in me, and looking back on my life, that is the greatest gift she could have given me. I always had that foundation within me to carry me through.

Wanna know what I truly think?
And surely this will probably **** you both off. I think both of you are being far too vindictive, harsh, judgemental and unreasonable towards each other.
Yeah, there were truths spoken,
but too much of the broader sphere of who both of you are and what you're about, is left out in the heat of the moment. And the care and compassion that I know
is an admirable trait in both of you, is too often not used in consideration of each other...just reserved for others.

posted May 04, 2007 10:45 AM         

Thank you thank you thank you. I only have a moment so I can't go on and on. Just thanks.

Stephen,

I'm glad it helped. So perhaps family therapy would be a good place to help others, other children, other adults who need help with thier inner children. I left some poems for you in yellow wax, ,from the time I was getting rid of my own demons. There are four. I thought maybe you could relate.

~~~~~~

quote:

---

When I was a kid and she might have been too harsh or whatever, she'd come to me after and apologize, comfort and hug me...admit her mistake. How beautiful and rare is that from a parent? She made sure to give me that gift of knowledge....that being an adult doesn't make one infallible.

---

That's been so important for me. I do that too with my own kids. My own never said they were sorry or apologized, or said they made mistakes. I don't really remember them telling me that they loved me either though. I tell mine all the time, at least once a day.

Remember John Lennon said it best,

Love is the answer, and you know that's for sure.

Love,,
Amanda

posted May 04, 2007 12:24 PM         

quote:

---

"Is this how Jesus felt?" Persecuted for no reason other than the inner demons of others?
Is this blood in my eyes, tinting that Easter sunlight, a strange form of the rose colored glasses?
Funny how blood sweat and tears are all the same salty.

---

Wow, Fayte.

That was powerful and yes, you hit the nail right on the head, that is why we suffer and why Jesus suffered, due to the inner demons of others.

It is why at the innocent of age of 4 I suffered being sexually molested by the baby sitter's husband. I too, have trust issues that I have worked all my life to overcome due to my childhood, GG.

We do care, HSC. If not we wouldn't even be on this thread saying anything. We would just ignore you and write you off. What you have done is what we all do when we don't want to face our inner demons, our own faults and flaws out of fear that once facing them we might have to actually work on eradicating them and change - you attack the messengers because you don't like the message.

Fayte mentioned Jesus, out of humanity's fear of having to wrestle with our own inner demons, we, like drowning victims pulled the lifeguard down with us. He died because people did not like the message. The message was then as it always will be, that the problem is not those people over there or what has happened in my life, I am the problem. The problem lies within us and only we can have the ability to change things in our life by changing ourselves and how we relate to them and others.

Truthfully, HSC, from my perspective, I had to laugh when you stated in one of your posts that you had spent ( and I am paraphrasing out of memory here, not exactly quoting ) that you had spent a lifetime studing and learning what you know. I don't question that you have, but what is that " lifetime" for you, 26 or 27 years? To me that is funny when you disregard anything I have to say in discussions from what I have studied, learned from experience, learned from within myself, learned from listening to others, etc. in a lifetime that as of last week spans 61 years. I still don't think I know much of anything and I still think that I have much to learn and much work to do on improving myself and eradicating my inner demons. I will feel that way the day I die. Which the way I feel today may be any minute now.

Yet, I believe highly in the spirituality of imperfection and that God does not expect us to ever become perfect people in our short lifetimes. It is only the effort we make at overcoming our inner demons that he cares about.

What Key, Goatgirl, Fayte, Tink, myself and others here are trying to tell you and have said, each in our own way, is that the crosses we have to carry in life don't matter so much as how we attempt to overcome them, forgive, let go and move on. Truth is we all have crosses that are fashioned just for us. There is no comparison of whose cross is worse than someone elses. Ours are meant for us to carry and beyond to rise from the cross. Just as Jesus did. There is no loss in God, HSC. Death itself is not even a loss and that is the example set for us by Jesus' life and death on the cross.

We can sit around feeling sorry for ourselves and lamenting over our crosses, we can try to escaple those crossed through drugs or sex or look for someone else to come into our lives to save us from ourselves and rescue us from our crosses, or we can pick those crosses up ( even though we never asked for them ) and carry them but beyond carrying them, overcome them and rise above it all.

The choice is ours to make. There are only a few things in the natural universal scheme of life that are fated or determined or predestined to be. As for us human beings, we are only destined to die. All that is inbetween our birth and death is due to the choices we make. We determine our own destiny, our own fate. But if you will, suffering is a part of life for all humanity. That is why it is so important what Fayte told you on the Yellow Way thread, that we look around us in the world, see the suffering of others, and then count our blessings. " I cursed that I had no shoes until I saw a man without any feet." That kind of thinking. " There, but for the grace of God, go I."

No one else is going to rescue you, Steve. No mate, no perfect angel woman who comes into your life. You have to love yourself first, accept yourself and approve of yourself first with all your shortcomings and flaws, deal with your own inner demons, before you can love and accept and approve of anyone else.

God doesn't love us in spite of our flaws. He loves us BECAUSE of them. Which is what we all need to learn and do for each others.

Obviously we all do care here even if we may seem to be just "attacking" you or ganging up on you as Key said, or we wouldn't even be wasting our time and energy with you.

I don't question the methods used here on this thread.Because God speaks through others and it may just be that in your case ( and I have always thought that Scorps are ten times more stubborn than Taureans ever are ) God has to hit you over the head with a hammer, HSC.

The perfect mate that you are looking for, and all of us look for, doesn't exist. The only one who can meet all your needs is God, HSC. No human being can ever do that. What we think we are looking for in that special somone in the form of another human being is actually what our souls are truly seeking is God. God, the Hound of Heaven who relentlessly pursues us. While we keep running away and looking for him some place else or in someone else. Looking for love in all the wrong places.

posted May 04, 2007 12:34 PM         

You trusted me, and I trusted myself (just as you did).
You made the choice to trust me with that information.
I made the choice to allude to it.
I am still not persuaded that I was wrong to do so.

I know you are right about a lot of things,
and your words do not fall on deaf ears.

Lately, I am seeing a side of Mirandee which all but eclipses the other sides I have seen. It is very hard to recall the soft words she has spoken in the past, when she is still busy screaming cruel words in the present. I happen to know I'm not alone in this (not as alone as she appears to be in her furor against me, at least). When she is in possession of herself, I enjoy reading what she has to say and communnicating with her. But, once she gets worked up with a cause, there is evidently no reasoning with her, or appealing to her better nature, and, at that point, I've just got to walk out. There are things not to say, and ways not to say them, and, when she is p!ssed (as she so often is), she is unmindful of both. I cannot reason with a person in that condition, and I will not exhaust myself trying to do so. The wisest thing I could do is exercise the self-control not to respond to her (for she takes every unflattering word as a provocation to raise her voice louder and louder, and talk longer and longer - mostly just repeating herself, and emptying her arsenal of insults until its time to go reload), and not even to read her posts; for I myself am far too easily tempted at that point to give her a piece of the darkest part of my mind. And that is as unhealthy for me as it is for her.

When she wants to smoke the peacepipe,
I'll pack one up for her.

In the meantime,
I'll smoke one to my dome,
and listen to some Bob Marley,
while she screams to hear herself scream
and make herself sicker in soul.

posted May 04, 2007 12:45 PM         

quote:

---

you attack the messengers because you don't like the message.

---

I can stomach the message, Mirandee.
I just can't tolerate the way it is delivered by some people.
I think you confuse the message with your manner of delivery.

You are full of advice for me.
Do you look at yourself as critically?

There are many vices I find easy to forgive, in myself and in others.
Just about the only thing that makes me want to dismiss a person,
is when they possess the vice of judgemental meanspiritedness.

Let go of your message for one moment, if you dare,
and consider the manner in which you are attempting to shove it down my throat.

posted May 04, 2007 12:52 PM         

Thanks!!!