posted June 01, 2007 12:16 AM         

Do you have it? What do you do to strengthen it? How do you own being attractive, intelligent, confident, without being egotistical?

I grew up with my father, he yelled at me and criticized me constantly. I never got any praise or compliments. An A minus wasn't good enough. Nothing was. Perfection was met with no praise and no criticism.

posted June 01, 2007 09:04 AM         

Not listening when others try to cut you down... for some reason there seems to be a lot of people out there that would rather look at someone else and find fault, when they really should be looking at themselves.

I think that as long as you're making yourself happy without hurting or at the expense of anyone else... you should feel as good about yourself as you want.

Not trying to impress others by being something that you're not. Not everyone is going to like you, that's life... but there will be others that do.

Don't surround yourself with people that attempt to make you feel inferior. Some people are just miserable and in return they're not satisfied until everyone else is.

I haven't figured out if they try to bring others down intentionally or not... I just think that they have such negative thoughts and issues of their own that they need to sort through, that they aren't happy seeing anyone else comfortable and secure.

Edit: When it comes to other people thinking you have a big Ego.... that's their problem.

I don't think an Ego should be an issue unless it's misused. Ex: Trying to make others feel like less to build themselves up... or trying to muscle over others.

A healthy Ego doesn't come off as a bad thing... it's called self-confidence.

posted June 01, 2007 11:51 AM         

I honestly don’t know.
What I do know is that I have self respect in good measure. In my experience, many people who look very extroverted, and self assured, have the lowest self confidence. Time and again I have seen them acting immaturely, wanting to be the center of attention all the time, being very closed to criticism, and being gaping black holes for praise.
Now some may call it being egoistic, but when I see such attention seekers , I shake my head and say to myself, I don’t want confidence if that’s what it does to people. Actually I wudn’t even call that confidence. I’d rather be hesitant, sensitive and a little retiring, at least I don’t ride roughshod over other people’s feelings and ego’s. I make my presence known by my actions and not my ‘look at me’ attitude. I figure that what I have counts for something. I know who I am, and don’t pretend to be more cheerful, outgoing or ‘BIG’ than I think I am.
There are very few people who I would call confident in that sense. Probably, my definition of confidence is ‘someone who is at peace with who they are’.

What do you do to strengthen it?

I tell myself that not everyone can be the same. I make my own rules. I am fiercely independent, and I use that to strengthen my confidence. I can’t, can’t follow the beaten track. I think for myself.

How do you own being attractive, intelligent, confident, without being egotistical?

LOL, I don’t consider myself attractive. Intelligent, yes. But then what did I have to do with it? They say ‘Who you are is God’s gift to you, what you become is your gift to God’. That keeps me grounded.

I grew up with my father, he yelled at me and criticized me constantly. I never got any praise or compliments. An A minus wasn't good enough. Nothing was. Perfection was met with no praise and no criticism.
How do you counter this? Those of you who had abusive parents, has your self-esteem grown over time, how have you developed it?

Yes, it has grown over time. I guess I am a very Saturn influenced person. When I was a kid, whenever I tried to follow others to build my confidence, I fell flat on my face. I didn’t have abusive parents, but I always felt ‘inferior’ to my little sister. During my teenage, I had some experiences that sent my confidence dipping even lower. For me it was never grades, I was always very confident in that area. it was always my appearance and demeanor and social skills that caused me agony. I was painfully shy. 'Gauche' was a word invented for me.

During Saturn transit to my ascendant (and opposite my sun) I hit my lowest ever. its hard to explain how I journeyed back to where I am. All I can say is that whatever little confidence I have now is not superficial, and is based on accepting (to some extent at least) who I am. Saturn was a very hard taskmaster, but at last what I have now has a very sound foundation.

posted June 01, 2007 03:57 PM         

I have critical parents, and they're both fire signs. My mom makes some decent observations about me, but I don't think they ever have really understood me.

I think my process for arriving at being ok with myself, was extracting myself from them, and then a pretty thorough self-examination. Astrology helped in this I think. Once I figured out those things that are contradictory in my nature, and came to accept them, my self-esteem improved greatly. Actually, my self-esteem wasn't terrible prior to that, but it fluctuated more.

I also think there's a lot to be said for taking into account how people respond to you. If they respond better to you than you do to yourself, then maybe you should take their opinion into account. There are lots of people who, for reasons unknown to anyone, will just like you. They'll see something in you, and latch onto it. You allow that to happen all the time, so why should your opinion of yourself be any less than the opinion of these others who mysteriously love you?

posted June 01, 2007 04:06 PM         

quote:

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During Saturn transit to my ascendant (and opposite my sun) I hit my lowest ever. its hard to explain how I journeyed back to where I am. All I can say is that whatever little confidence I have now is not superficial, and is based on accepting (to some extent at least) who I am. Saturn was a very hard taskmaster, but at last what I have now has a very sound foundation

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Same exact thing happened to me...only this was when saturn opposed my ascendant and conjuncted my sun and descendant. Saturn was quite the taskmaker, wasn't he? Taught me, well he tried, to teach me to have thicker skin...can't say I learned anything though. You have your sun at the 25th degree too, right? Then we must've had to learn similar lessons at the same time.

Honestly, I don't know if I have any self-esteem either even after that stupid transit. And I too grew up w/ a father just like BR's. So my low self esteem manifested in many ways. You know, there was a time whne I thought I was hideous as sin as a result. I didn't think I would ever get a boyfriend and I thought I was different from every other person in that respect. I used to think adults were just being nice when they said "she's adorable" or "she's cute". And then, there was my weight which has gone up and down every other year since I was like seven. Add on to that, the fact that I was the "foreigner" and therefore "different" when I first cam here to the states. And even though now I 've been speaking English for YEARS, I'm still not good at articulating in public. Yeah, all that has been enough to make me very shy and introverted.

How can I mprove? Well, I could rely on my boyfriend to reassure me every second of the day, but I know, I know; that isn't right. But it doesn't stop me from liking it when he does.

posted June 01, 2007 04:29 PM         

quote:

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I do think the Mutable suns may have a more difficult time with self-esteem issues, because their natures seem more critical by nature.

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AG, i disagree about the mutable thing being the main cause of this. my mutable moon can intuit other's feelings quick as lightning. and i mostly interpret it in very negative ways. but tht's bcoz of my cappy insecurity. for example someone might be sulking but i'd insantly assume it has something to do with me. guilt is a very big issue with cappies. we blame ourselves for every goddam thing. (atleast i do, i hv to tell that inner nagging voice to shut up sometimes)

BR's feelings cud also be due to the cappy influence. i wud think that is a more imp factor than mutable influence.

i wud think that virgo and cappy wud be two of the most self critical signs in the zodiac.

this topic is very close to my heart, bcoz i have struggled all my life with low self esteem.

Dulce, yes, my sun is at 26 degrees cap, and asc at 27 degrees cancer. so yes, similar lessons at the same time. no wonder we get along =) but then for me it was a transit to my ASc, which represents self image, personality etc , and sun, the way we perceive ourseves. so it was imperative i mastered it i guess. Saturn made sure of that.

and yes Dulce, it WAS a guy i had a crush on and who returned my feelings tht helped me back on my feet. like u i also used to think tht no one can ever love me. for almost my whole life. i am sucker for love. dang the 7th house influence.

but i think the foundation had already been laid before i ever fell for him. the old fears had already been examined and scrutinized, old ways of reacting put under a microscope. all my older belief systems and defense mechanisms had been ripped apart by saturn. without that i probably wud never have been able to see the light of love shining in his eyes.

his venus conj my NN in leo (1st house). we met when saturn was passing over both.

astrology, it never ceases to amaze me.

posted June 01, 2007 04:45 PM         

I agree that both of these signs are somewhat self-critical, but my girlfriend who's a Sag Sun with Cap Ascendant has way more of these kind of issues. Am I just lucky to be OK with myself, or is it the Mutable energy? She's also got a Gemini Moon.

posted June 01, 2007 04:51 PM         

i agree tht mutable signs tend to be more high strung. probably the moon signs more so. so combined with saturnine influence it cud lead to low self esteem. but nervous energy can go either way. combined with leonine or jupiterean influences they might become party animals who bounce from one idea/activity/partner to another.

p.s.
in fact, i have a correction to make. i read in a book by liz, tht scorp and cap r two signs most prone to depression. and i can vouch for it.

posted June 01, 2007 05:15 PM         

Capricorn Sun in Scorpio-ruled 8th
Capricorn Jupiter in Scorpio-ruled 8th
Mars in Scorpio
Mercury, Venus, and Neptune in Sag.
Mercury and Venus opposite Saturn

posted June 01, 2007 05:24 PM         

BR, back to your original question. i don't know if this helped u at all.

but i built my self esteem back on the basis of one quality in myself which i liked. my sense of humor. (ok, i know its not anything great as compared to you folks, but for me it is). i held on to it for dear life. i told myself, so wht if i am not attractive. i can atleast make others laugh. AND keep myself amused. it was my gemini moon tht i chose to identify with, bcoz tht's wht i like the most about myself. its only now that i am actually beginning to like being a capricorn.

you have a great sense of humor, and u know it. i dont know how much u value it. but i feel tht if we are to like ourselves, we need to start somewhere !!

posted June 01, 2007 05:37 PM         

yes, cancer asc was also there. but tht's what i used to blame for my extreme shyness and sensitivity. so it didn't help to identify with it too much. lol. its only on LL tht i've witnessed such a craze for cancers

i think my gemini gives me emotional resilience. i can change my moods pretty fast. it helps me with my depressive phases. i love the gemini energy. i hv read on astrodienst tht cappy sun with gemmy moon gives a well integrated personality. it is true in my case. the very fact tht the two energies are so different, makes for a nice balance.

posted June 01, 2007 06:05 PM         

quote:

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his venus conj my NN in leo (1st house).

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WOW, my venus is on his northnode in gemini. Saturn was passing neither when I met him though. Saturn was passing over my sun and desc (as I mentioned above).

As another mutable mooner (virgo), I agree that we can be high-strung and critical of ourselves....leading to low self esteem problems considering other factors as well. But I've now realized that I like being with other mutable mooners the best because no one understands my quirks better (with the exception of Aqua) than another mutable mooner; we all have the same damn quirks! (as I've noticed) I'm free to be my "weird" myself around another mutable mooner, its cool....

quote:

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It's kind of neat to see you say you're latching on to your Gemini energy as a way to cope.

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posted June 01, 2007 06:45 PM         

I see gemini as a very under appreciated sign, capricorns have a tendency to be at the top of the social ladder, geminis are often spastic and unfocused, but their optimism leaves them appreciated. When cappy gets negative is when they lose appreciatation.

Mutables ARE highly critical, AG is right, and I've found pisces to be highly critical, ESP of themselves. Pisces are extremely hard on themselves by nature, they often feel the walls closing in and blame themselves for everything. Saggies and virgos are of course, very critical, saggies on more of a broad ideological scale, virgos on more of a specific scale.

I have pluto 1 deg off my sun right now, and while my life isn't that bad, and I have no reason for it, I do have an incredible amount of internal pain surfacing right now, something I can't really explain. I'm basically using this place as a therapist because I dont' currently have medical insurance for a real therapist. I figure though that the discussions I'm bringing up, about self-esteem, loss of faith, etc, will help everyone and not just me. I've often found myself crying lately at the drop of a hat, after seeing a homeless person, thinking about people starving in the world, just the horrible injustice and unfairness of life, how everyone suffer so incredibly with seemingly no purpose behind it. I see people struggling just to survive, while spoiled rich people scoff and detest them for being ill or homeless or poor. Perhaps this is my strong neptunian influence making me take on the suffering of humanity as many pisceans do, but I would rather not feel this awareness of how painful life is.

Here's my chart ILWL, thanks for your interest .

posted June 01, 2007 08:22 PM         

Insecurities are associated with the sign Capricorn.
Look to the house that Capricorn rules and there you will find (the area) where you are insecure.

Sorry BR I have to disagree with mutable and being critical.

Mutable is about change and better ideas, they take bits and pieces from everyone and share, share, share (the original networker) it is their charm to be adaptable not critical.
(the kind of critical this thread is talking about is seen in aspects, not signs)