posted June 09, 2007 04:47 PM         

I do not want children, for one thing, and, for another thing, I have a goal which I believe will benefit the world immensely more than the adoption of a child, and adopting a child would interfere with the completion of that mission. Good enough reason for you?

I do not see myself as being anywhere near the equivalent of a Shakespeare or a high spiritual adept, you are mistaken. I will not be continuing my genes, no.

posted June 09, 2007 05:00 PM         

"The love we are to give to brothers and sisters is to be measured by their need and not by any lesser ties of personality that may bind us to them or be absent. The measure of want, that is the measure of giving. The agony that cries for help, that is the claim that we have to answer...

"As humanity develops it answers to nobler and nobler impulses. The method of the teacher at first must be the method of Nature, which allows people to learn the reality I speak of by pain. And so by karma we sense another sanction for right ethics. People learn that selfishness can breed only sorrow and have no other offspring than misery. If they will not learn by love, they must learn by pain. If they will not learn by longing for God, they must learn by the experience of evil. If that real tree of life in every human heart, whose fruits are love and duty, does not sufficiently attract them to eat its fruit, then they must eat of the tree of the knowledge of evil as well as good...

"Nature looks cruelly only while you oppose her; she is your strongest helper when you join yourself to her. For every law that crushes you while you oppose it lifts you when you are united to it. Every force that is against you while you are lawless is on your side when you make yourself one with law."

- Annie Besant "The Spiritual Life"

Ms. Besant was one of the leading orators and proponents of both Theosophy and Feminism, in her time. Among other things, she is known for being the adoptive mother of the boy who would later become the high adept and prolific author of spiritual works, J. Krishnamurti.

posted June 09, 2007 05:03 PM         

quote:

---

What would they be without us average rabble to worship them, buy their books, pay to see them perform?

---

Don't you mean, what would they be if they did not have to dedicate their lives to the enlightenment of others?

Well rested, I would imagine.

Any other objections I can make short work of, 'Zala?

posted June 09, 2007 05:12 PM         

quote:

---

You mean, what would they be if they did not have to dedicate their lives to the enlightenment of others?

---

posted June 09, 2007 05:47 PM         

I understand your feelings, but, like it or not, there is a moral imperative in this universe. No, not because I say so, but because there is an actual karmic law which works in favor of those who are dedicated to serving the spiritual ideal and against those who are not. By all means, make your choices, and accept the consequences, if you dare.

quote:

---

I tend to run the other way (or stand and fight if I feel it warrants) when someone wants to "enlighten" me.

---

That's unfortuneate for you, 'Zala.
You might do better to listen to the words,
and appreciate the intentions, of such people.

quote:

---

Excuse me, but is it alright if I seek my own enlightenment without any "superior" being feeling a need to impose "enlightenment" on me??

---

The karmic law, as ordained by God, will indeed impose on you the necessity to evolve in the way it sees fit. As for me, "superior" or not, I am imposing nothing, only speaking what I see to be true. You can feel however you want about it, do whatever you want about it, and take shots at the messenger all you want, but it will not change the karmic law. It will only change you.

posted June 09, 2007 06:08 PM         

- Elmore James

posted June 09, 2007 06:16 PM         

quote:

---

That's unfortuneate for you, 'Zala.
You might do better to listen to the words,
and appreciate the intentions, of such people.

---

No Stephen, I think you misunderstood me. I merely contend that I don't want "enlightenment" shoved down my throat by self-proclaimed prophets or purveyors of "wisdom". I choose who I will listen to, and what I deem "wisdom", according to my own inner voice and inner guide.....

posted June 09, 2007 07:23 PM         

Sorry, no peaches here today!!!!

And no I'm not yelling at you, if anyone reads any of my posts, they will see many CAPSS in my posts!!!LOL!!! Don't flatter yourself HSC!!! You assume alot, pass off judgement, twist things & peoples words to suit yourself & get your point of view accross, your so called advice, that you call it!!! Your truth honey, but not the Vast Majority !!!

Your problem is that you really only want to be heard as the only truth out there, you want people to understand you & believe what you say as the only way to enlightenment & when the Vast Majority disagrees with you, you throw up your defenses & say we're doing the same thing as you. Don't you see the reflections Steve???? In the mirror!!! Your always accusing others of the same?????

To be a GOOD LEADER, one most learn to also be a GOOD FOLLWER!!!!

And never assign anyone, anything that "YOU YOURSELF CAN'T DO BETTER "!!!!! LOL!!!

Personal I Don't care to comment on your defensive attacks on me & who you think I AM??? You know you have no clue!!! It's again just an attempt to get us, the Vast Majority to buy into YOUR truths of how it should be, by attacking anothers integrity & being to get your own way!!!

posted June 09, 2007 07:42 PM         

I cannot understand why you feel moved to voice these points, as if they somehow applied to our situation. How have I tried to force anything on you? Please, explain your reasons for this inferred accusation.

I have only spoken by beliefs with conviction.
As I see it, you, and others here,
are being far more hostile to me than I am to you.

What would you ask of me, 'Zala?
What would make you happy? Be specific.
Do you want me to be silent about my beliefs?
Is that the only way to not offend you?
Honestly, it seems as if this is your unspoken intention,
in direct contrast to your stated principles.

So what if I call myself a prophet? What is that to you, anyway? And what is a prophet if not someone who has a message to share which is true, deeply important, and highly unpopular? I firmly believe my message is true and deeply important, and there can be no disagreement that it is highly unpopular.

Jesus of Nazareth was a self-proclaimed Messiah, and preached his intensely unpopular and ascetic message (among other things, he recommended castration and the plucking out of eyes, for the speedy salvation of souls) with profound, uncompromising conviction. You say you tend to run from people who try to enlighten you. How fast would you have run from Him, I wonder?

ILWL,

quote:

---

Pride goes before a fall.....
And the countdown has begun.

---

Please, remove the mote from your own eye.
You are as convinced of your own view as I am of mine,
but you are actually directing a mean-spirit at me,
which I am not doing to you.
I do not blame you for anything,
and I certainly have no anger or desire to see you "fall".

posted June 09, 2007 07:46 PM         

and btw not all falls are bad. some are much needed. If I ever became as arrogant as you, I pray to God he wakes me up before I start walking all over other people.

posted June 09, 2007 07:49 PM         

If ONE doesn't agree with it, then its only advice and its **** !!! Advice is just a tool to make one feel right about oneSelf or something!!! Thats control over!!! BIG POWER TRIP!!!! EGO FEED!!!!

You can only save yours-ELF, with your own devices, when one is ready!!!! Then you have no one else to blame, or view it as a right or wrong thing to do!!! Thats where JUGDEMENT is found!!!

Your casting the First Stone!!!!

You don't have to defend yours-ELF Steve or lash-out to be heard or felt!!!

posted June 09, 2007 07:52 PM         

Your perception of this situation is so utterly distorted,
that I have no faith in my ability to reason with you.

I wish you the best.

HSC

posted June 09, 2007 08:00 PM         

What have I done wrong?

I stated my beliefs with conviction.

I believe I am right and you are wrong.

Where is the arrogance there?

Don't you believe you are right and I am wrong?

If what you want from me is to say, "I could be wrong,"
then, show me how its done, will you?

Could you be wrong about this?

posted June 09, 2007 08:02 PM         

I have only spoken by beliefs with conviction.
As I see it, you, and others here,
are being far more hostile to me than I am to you.

This is the **** we're talkling about!!!LOL!!! And yes you do Cut the Vast Majority up, way more hostile to us!!! This is so the point of the" Mirror Reflection " Steve!!!

Why don't you get this yet, Steve????

All your posts as of yet, are all turning out like this!!! You may just want to LOOK AROUND YOU!!!!

LOOK in the FREAKING MIRROR, will ya!!!

HOLY COW!!!!

posted June 09, 2007 08:16 PM         

What is there not to see HSC?

You insult us, then you pity us poor condemned souls. I am sick of your condescending attitude, your megalomania. You think you are the only person here who has a handle on truth. Looks like you have only now discovered that there is a karmic law favoring those on a spiritual path. So to some extent I can understand that you would want to come and preach about it. You have seen the 'ahha', but you refuse to experience the 'ohhh'. That many others are in possession of your truths already. They have made whatever choices they have made in life for their own reasons. And just because they don't come here and blow their own trumpet doesn't mean you are more of a truth seeker than any of them.

posted June 09, 2007 08:21 PM         

So what if I call myself a prophet? What is that to you, anyway? And what is a prophet if not someone who has a message to share which is true, deeply important, and highly unpopular? I firmly believe my message is true and deeply important, and there can be no disagreement that it is highly unpopular.

With a Quote like this one, one has but to wonder????

Quote: What is that to you, anyway? And what is a prophet if not someone who has a message to share which is true,

And then blame & bash the Vast Majority to get your point across!!!

If you only used the first part about sharing, the sharing part without the Blaming & Bashing!!! Truly sharing, doesn't require one to fault anothers ways of life to get your point out there!!! Thats not sharing, it's putting people's backs up against the fence!!!!!!

posted June 09, 2007 08:21 PM         

I gave a baby up for adoption in college. Typical senario, boy and girl are mating like bunnies, girl gets pregnant, boy says "I'll be there for you", when going gets tough, he gets gone.

The people I looked at had been waiting for YEARS to adopt. The people I looked at had paid TENS of THOUSANDS of dollars to get to the point of being chosen for adoption.

Most people don't have the resources available to spend on adoption. The red tape and money required make it an option for only the well to do.

Additionally, when the emotional aspect is factored in the price is even higher.

It would have been easier for me to hack off an arm, then to leave my baby in the hospital 3-5 days after giving birth. I had to put him down into the bassinet, and walk out of that room. In short I had to defy my biological nature. Millions of years of biological urges.

I cried for about a week straight. THen I cried some more. Then after 3 weeks I had to sign the legal papers saying I would revoke any parental claim I had on my baby FOREVER. After I signed them I wept some more.

Until the powers that be ease the way for adoption in this country, there will continue to be children who are in orphanages.

That doesn't even address what's happening in places like Africa, where there will be a generation or more, who have no one. Who is supposed to adopt those babies? If people who want children cannot afford to adopt one here, what will make them able to afford an international adoption? We're not all Angelina Joile you know.

We(husband and I) have talked about it might be nice to have another child. We have talked about adopting a child that needs a home. Realistically it's cheaper for us to make one. Which is very very sad. Because it's true, there are so many children who need people to love them.

Steve I understand what you are saying. I understand the reasoning behind it. The way needs to be make more accessable for the majority of people to do that. Saying that this is the only "intelligent" decision might be construed wrong. Equitable or Ethical might be better terms.

Peace.
GG

posted June 09, 2007 08:24 PM         

quote:

---

What have I done wrong?
I stated my beliefs with conviction.
I believe I am right and you are wrong.
Where is the arrogance there?
Don't you believe you are right and I am wrong?
If what you want from me is to say, "I could be wrong,"
then, show me how its done, will you?
Could you be wrong about this?

---

You are an outstanding writer, Stephen -- I will always feel that way. But something has crept into your dissertations that disturbs me..... I'd call it Ego, but that's not exactly the correct word, and there's nothing wrong with a healthy ego. But *too much ego* -- that's a judgment call that I'm not fit to make. It's not fair

posted June 09, 2007 09:03 PM         

Steve, the tribe has spoken. Bring me your torch.

hehe
sorry
too much reality t.v. for me

Hi Pix! Hi Zala!

If anyone has forgotten, with all of his sensitivity Steve is still *just a man* hehe He is just being logical and doesn't always immediately understand what all the emotional reactions are about.

Steve, Pixie was just being cute and flirty and funny as she always is, and always has been, and you inadvertantly hurt her feelings. And when she is still emotionally raw and open from GIVING LIFE! Me and Zala are going to kick your ass!!!

That being said, to address the issue with cold logic, it is absolutely true that our planet is over-populated. It is absolutely true that to do anything other than merely replace yourself is "selfish" according to cold logic, but see in *reality* that applies only to crazy religious types who are trying to repopulate the world with only their (and their cousins') twisted seed, it DOES NOT apply to beloved Pix and her sweet, beautiful angels (which is what Steve was trying to say with the "lucky to have you as a Mom" piece).

He's just logical and he speaks with "authority" much like the authors he studies. Its really no big deal. He also speaks from the Highest Truth as he knows it, and thank GOD he does. I often feel offended by something he says, even when not addressed to me because I apply it to myself, but I keep my mouth shut and think of it for while to see if I really have a problem with what he has stated in a logical/factual way or if it just struck a note for me. Then when I have learned from the situation (I do this with almost everyone, but not everyone strikes a chord with me, especially when they are TRYING to) I respond objectively (meaning without emotion as much as possible) and there is an exchange of ideas.

posted June 09, 2007 09:12 PM         

This is usally about the time that you roll- in as the " VICTIM " of the Vast Majority!!!

Please, it's getting OLD & STALE!!!!

Spare us!!! PREACHER MAN!!!! Has the word PEACHE in it!!!