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Author
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Topic: My Wish Came True! Rapist and Murderer of 9 yr Old Girl Sentenced to Die
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goatgirl
Knowflake Posts: 1169
From: Anywhere
Registered: Jul 2002
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posted August 29, 2007 07:16 PM
 
What is boils down to is that WE have to choose how to react to what society/our parents/church etc. do TO us. All of us have had pain and suffering inflicted upon us. It's what you do with it that counts.What did happen to him? Indeed, all of us are babies at one time or another. How did this guy get so messed up that he thought this was "ok"? ------------------
The deeper we look into nature, the more we recognize that it is full of life, and the more profoundly we know that all life is a secret and that we are united with all life that is in nature. --Albert Schweitzer IP: Logged |
fayte.m
unregistered
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posted August 29, 2007 07:27 PM
goatgirl 
Normal folk make the right moral choices or at least avoid committing serious heinous crimes.
Indeed, what messed him up so he thought is was ok at the time?
That is not the hallmark of a sane person.
Sane folks do not do those things.
So is he then insane?
Was he unable to make a proper moral decision?
What motivated him to step out of the normal societal bounds?
We must find out what makes these people tick, and when the aberrations begain, and how to prevent folks as children from later becoming deranged human "monsters".
It is too late in his current incarnation to fix him. He must pay for his horrible crime. It would be morally wrong to the victim's family and society at this time to simply lock him up. It will not bring the little girl back, but it will make some folks feel better knowing one of his kind is not physically upon the Earth.
Which brings me to another point.
Many here say we get what we deserve and have self righteously said any tragedy or illness or hardship that befalls us is our debt for Karmic crimes.
Does this also apply folks, to the little victim we are talking about? These same folks also love spouting off new age drivel, saying, "there are no victims".
Uh huh. 
------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
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goatgirl
Knowflake Posts: 1169
From: Anywhere
Registered: Jul 2002
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posted August 29, 2007 07:42 PM
I emailed you.Love,
GG ------------------
The deeper we look into nature, the more we recognize that it is full of life, and the more profoundly we know that all life is a secret and that we are united with all life that is in nature. --Albert Schweitzer IP: Logged |
goatgirl
Knowflake Posts: 1169
From: Anywhere
Registered: Jul 2002
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posted August 29, 2007 07:47 PM
My heart goes out to the family of that sweet being. I hope she can find peace wherever she may now be.I think about what I would feel like if that happened to my own daughter. The gaping wound in my heart that would never go away. It makes me so sad for that family. I hope that they can find someway to heal and become at peace. It makes me wonder if we really are the most evolved beings on this planet when I read about this sort of thing... Peace.
GG ------------------
The deeper we look into nature, the more we recognize that it is full of life, and the more profoundly we know that all life is a secret and that we are united with all life that is in nature. --Albert Schweitzer IP: Logged |
fayte.m
unregistered
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posted August 29, 2007 08:09 PM
goatgirl!  My e-mail reply just went out to you!------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
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ListensToTrees
Knowflake Posts: 5883
From: UK
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted August 30, 2007 08:07 AM
Fayte, you have expressed your thoughts so well, I feel there is no need for me to say much! Only that it can sometimes be confusing to have an open mind, as I do....not to let that put others off open-mindedness as I feel in time and with some work, the effort will yield its rewards! quote:
Indeed. There is always a way.
But as you said, at this time in our societies, there is neither the resources or the time.
A place to start, to eradicate these human monsters actions and behaviours, is to find a way to identify the signs of future social deviants in little children. All these "monsters" were once innocent suckling babes.
So what happened to them? We scream "hang him, shoot him, fry him!, when we hear of a little girl going through hell on Earth and being buried alive, to suffocate in terror. But what made him that act that way?
Until the cause is identified society will continue to be plagued by such human "monsters"
So well put. I feel very strongly about what you wrote there.  Mirandee,
quote:
There are some crimes such as preying on the innocent that should be mandatory death. I feel that way even if it's the parents who harm the child with physical and sexual abuse. We have to rid society of these people. It is, as you said, the only way we can protect our children
I have a friend who was abused by her father (not severely as to include rape, however, any kind of abuse like that scars the victim for life).....All she wanted to do was move on. She did not wish any revenge on him. That would have made it more painful.  IP: Logged |
double trouble gemini
Knowflake Posts: 458
From: uae
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted August 30, 2007 09:08 AM
 really sad to read about the little girl.
in the case of this little girl i would also want that person to DIE but then i also agree it wont solve the cause of this problem... something somewhere has gone wrong and it has made these people what they are today. (Fayte u did force me to think)
my 2cent on sexual abuse..
i have seen that when it (sexual abuse) actually happens to a person the victim has mixed emotions he/she doesnt always want revenge but above all wants to get away from it all and move on... but its difficult to move on if u have to deal or see the person who has abused you still there in this world and living a normal life, so thats where i feel the punishment plays an important part.
i would feel cheated, unsafe and in a way humiliation if i saw the man who abused me got away without being punished, afterall he has messed up with me physicaly and wounded me emotionaly, it would give me some comfort to learn this person was punished. "maybe" it would make him and others like him learn what he has done in unexceptable and very wrong.
in my case i was a victim of what i would now call a very mild form of sexual abuse. with time i have forgiven the person but i dont ever want to see him again... its been 13 years since it happened and i have never met or spoken to him by choice, i hold no hard feelings anymore so why is it that thinking of seeing or being near him makes me feel disgusted?
my sister is a complete opposite, she was sexually abused when she was little and again as a teenager but she has no hard feelings towards anyone and never wants the people who abused her to die or be severly punished but believes life will teach them a lesson... she even talks to them as if nothing ever happened.
so i think to be punished or not to be punished should be the choice given to the victim and their family,justice must be served to them. 
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Lialei
Knowflake Posts: 1896
From: blank canvas
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted August 30, 2007 09:46 AM
Yesterday at work,
I heard, "excuse me, but do you have..."I looked up to find myself face to face with my friend's father who repeatedly raped her as a little girl. It was a terrible situation. 
Being at work, needing to remain professional...so taken by surprise.
I hadn't seen him in years and years, and I only recently found out from her about him.
I felt sick to my stomach for some time after he left...his creepy words lingering,
"you still have that beautiful long blonde hair, Lisa." I don't think he has any conscience for what he did to her. IP: Logged |
Solane Star
Knowflake Posts: 5392
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted August 30, 2007 09:55 AM
Lialei, Now that just give me the creeps!!! Shiver's down my spine!!! IP: Logged |
double trouble gemini
Knowflake Posts: 458
From: uae
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted August 30, 2007 10:04 AM
hi Lialei
i feel really sad for what ur friend has gone through no words can exactly describe what she went through. give her my best regards.
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Bluemoon
Knowflake Posts: 4484
From: Stafford, VA USA
Registered: Feb 2005
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posted August 30, 2007 12:15 PM
Wow, that is rough, Lialei. I don't know that I would have been able to maintain. What a B@stard!!!IP: Logged |
Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake Posts: 9710
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted August 30, 2007 01:17 PM
Lia,
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Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake Posts: 9710
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted August 30, 2007 01:37 PM
I agree with Fayte. There is some contradiction, Mirandee, in saying that death is too good for this man, but you will forgive him in time. If you can imagine forgiving him in time, then that germ of forgiveness is already there. You need to water it. Forgiveness comes much faster when we pray for it, and seek to understand the person whom we judge. That is what your religion teaches. If you cannot desire to forgive him, pray to desire to forgive him. Begin where you are, and do not procrastinate forgiveness. That's my two cents.
Lia raised a good point. Many of these people do not even have consciences. Just as some people are deaf, and some are partially deaf, and some have an exceptionally keen sense of hearing. Just as a deaf person cannot be blamed for not hearing some warning, which then results in someone else's death, and which another person would have heard, thereby preventing the death, so, a person without a conscience cannot be blamed. They are literally not hearing the voice of conscience.
Finding out how a child becomes a "monster" is not difficult, in my opinion. A person goes deaf when they listen to very loud, disturbing sounds for any length of time. A person goes blind when they stare into harsh lights. And a person goes deaf and blind to conscience when they are exposed to prolonged suffering, hatred, and violence. The time and extent is different for everyone, we all have varying threshholds. Some people are so sensitive or fragile in this regard, that it takes very little darkness to cloud their heart's vision. The only way to prevent it for certain is to eradicate every shred of hatred in this world, by loving. More to say about this, but gotta run. love and light,
S
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ListensToTrees
Knowflake Posts: 5883
From: UK
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted August 30, 2007 01:57 PM
Lia,
I feel the same as Bluemoon.Everyone, I just read this. A friend on myspace wrote it.
~LOVE~
Unconditional, holistic love is the answer to all of life's challenges.
We are here on Earth to learn how to love ourselves and others. We are here to accept ourselves and others completely, and without judgment. At this point, some people may ask, "Are you supposed to love someone who is determined to be non-loving?" The secret here is that there is a difference between an acceptance of the outer beliefs of a person and an acceptance of their inner essence. Regardless of that person's outward belief system, and whether you agree with it or not, it is the inner essence of the person that you learn to recognize, love and accept. The secret is that unconditional love will heal the world, and there is no shortage of its supply. The universe is permeated by, and held together by, the love aspect of the One Creator. The universe was created by three fundamental aspects of original consciousness - intent, love and motion. Love is the medium that fills all of the universe, while the intent of the One Creator holds that universe together within its embrace. Love is not something that you generate.
It is something that you allow to flow through you. You have only to allow it to flow in order to experience its wonder.
Every part of space, every part of matter and every part of your being is filled with the love of Creation. So, the next time you feel a little down, just remember one thing.
Love is in the air. It really is! quote:
it is the inner essence of the person that you learn to recognize, love and accept.
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Mirandee
unregistered
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posted August 31, 2007 03:02 AM
Gee, HSC, thanks for telling me to pray. It's not something I would have ever thought to do.  Why don't you pray along with me, HSC? While I pray for God's help in forgiving this man for his heinous crime you can pray for God to help you to forgive me for being less than a perfect Christian and for being happy that this man got the death sentence for raping and burying a 9 year old child alive. One very good observation you did make, HSC is that the desire to forgive is indeed the seed and in fact it's more than just a seed, the desire to forgive IS forgiveness in the heart which is the only place it truly counts - not in the emotions of anger over what the man did to that child and being happy that he is being held responsible for it. Afterall, the emotion of anger at a moment in time does not denote the character of a revengeful or an unforgiven nature in a person. It is really no more than an emotional reaction at the time. I think it was Johnny who pretty much said words to that effect on this thread. Also my forgiving is really in the heart and soul and between me and God. I do not have to proclaim it on the threads of LL that I have forgiven the man or say the words out loud because someone tells me to. That would only be to impress others of what a wonderful, holy and spiritual human being I am. None of us would do that, would we? In fact when you forgive another person you don't even have to tell the person that you forgive them. Because really forgiveness does you more good than it does the other person because chances are the other person doesn't even feel they have done anything that they need forgiveness for. Forgiveness is in the heart. It's between the person and God and it is not necessary to say it out loud or do it because someone else tells you that you should. When it comes down to it we all forgive in our own time. Not the time others think we should or feel we should. Nor do we have to say it out loud for others to hear. God knows what is in my heart. It is not necessary that you or anyone else know that, HSC. You want to judge my character and whether or not I forgive and am a good or bad Christian based on one incident that's your problem. Not mine. Go ahead. Be my guest. But then you are going to have to ask for forgiveness from God for that. So you see, we are all in need of forgiveness. So we should all be forgiving of others. And only God knows whether we are forgiving on the whole or our lives or not. Only God will ever know if I forgive this man or not. Others don't have to know. I don't have to tell others if I forgive him or not. It's just between me and God. Good thing that God doesn't remember our failures and keep a chalk board where he marks off the times we failed to do what we know to be right as others like to do for us and we do to ourselves. Good thing that God is only concerned with the effort we make on the whole at being a better person day by day and doing the right things. Good thing only God knows what is our hearts and what our real and true character is. Others can only base their judgments on their own biases and perceptions. You cannot really form true and real judgments of me any more than I can this man, HSC. Because I can't see into this man's soul and you can't see into my soul. You cannot pretend to know my character because you do not know my whole life anymore than I know this man's whole life. I am not judging the man's soul , HSC. I am glad he was judged for his crime though and I think the sentence was fitting of the crime. You think otherwise. That's fine. I am entitled to my opinion and you are entitled to yours. We don't have to agree. But it is not necessary to judge anyone else's character or whether or not they forgive by nature just because they don't agree with your take on this man and his crime. IP: Logged |
Mirandee
unregistered
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posted August 31, 2007 03:12 AM
Regarding what you said about the man being without conscience and therefore not to blame for his actions, HSC. Everyone has a conscience. However, over time and repeated sinning ( or wrong doing- whatever term you want to use )people can and do manage to kill their conscience. They manage to silence the voice within which is our conscience. That this man appeared to have no conscience is really something we cannot know but if he didn't it was due to his own choices in life that lead to him killing and silencing his conscience. For that reason he is reponsible for his actions and also responsible through his choices in killing his conscience and making him the monster he was. IP: Logged |
Happy Dragon
Knowflake Posts: 3161
From:
Registered: Apr 2005
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posted August 31, 2007 06:44 AM
~ http://www.naturalchild.com/elliott_barker/partial_psychopath.html ~.. anthony barron .. jailed for life ..
~ http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/oxfordshire/6970366.stm ~ ~ http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/execution/who/profile.html ~ ~ http://www.naturalchild.com/elliott_barker/ ~
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Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake Posts: 9710
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted August 31, 2007 10:25 AM
Mirandee,
How can I forgive you, when I am not judging you and I am not angry with you? I am only pointing out irrefutable inconsistencies in your beliefs and behaviours, as I would a stone in your path. We are all "guilty" of such things, and I do not consider you special or above instruction. Sure, what you do with my words is between you and God, but I must speak them - that much is between myself and God.
All the greatest people in our history are great mainly due to their power to see and express virtues, and to encourage us all to reach our highest potential. I am only speaking of virtue to you, and encouraging you to practice it. This is what Jesus did, and its what good people do. You dont have to take it personally and feel judged by me. I think the people who genuinely want to be good will usually thank a person for pointing out their moral shortcomings and encouraging them in the practice of virtues. quote:
the desire to forgive IS forgiveness in the heart which is the only place it truly counts
By this logic, we may say that the desire to emulate Christ is enough to fullfill all commandments, and there is no importance in fanning that desire, and making conscious use of one's will, in order to actually emulate Christ. You are basically saying that Christ is buried in the heart, and its perfectly fine if he stays there, and we never pay any mind to him or allow him to inform our life in the world. It's fine to go on being angry and hateful, and to enthusiastically promote such anger and hatred in the world, but contemplating love, forgiveness, and understanding when we are most in need of it is a waste of time. quote:
- not in the emotions of anger over what the man did to that child and being happy that he is being held responsible for it. Afterall, the emotion of anger at a moment in time does not denote the character of a revengeful or an unforgiven nature in a person. It is really no more than an emotional reaction at the time.
An emotional reaction which you continue to defend in the present time, and prefer to go on repeating, rather than envisioning a more Christian view. Not only is this contrary to common sense, but it is very directly contrary to Christ's injunction, "Do not be angry... If you look upon a man in anger, you have already murdered him in your heart... For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies". And, indeed, it is this man's murder which you admittedly and openly desire! The more you deny this, the more insane your arguments become. Why not just have the integrity to admit to yourself that you are disobeying Christian Law by harboring, encouraging, and defending this anger? Taking pleasure in another person's downfall, Mirandee? Is there anything more directly opposed to what Christ taught? Come on.
quote:
You cannot really form true and real judgments of me any more than I can this man, HSC.
We can say what we see and, if we are clear-headed enough, we may make certain self-evident inferences, but, I agree, there is a lot we cannot know about each other's inner lives. But I find it strange that, after expressing this opinion, you would go on to state so equivically your judgments of what went on in this man's soul: quote:
That this man appeared to have no conscience is really something we cannot know but if he didn't it was due to his own choices in life that lead to him killing and silencing his conscience. For that reason he is reponsible for his actions and also responsible through his choices in killing his conscience and making him the monster he was.
Frankly, I think you believe this because it is safe and convenient. I agree that one way in which conscience is silenced is by a habitual refusal to hear it. But, as I understand it, in order to silence conscience, it has to be drowned out and supressed by another, louder, more sinister voice. Where does that voice come from? Why does it only speak convincingly in certain people? Why would a person choose to be seduced by evil? Could it be that we are different? And that, perhaps, it is not as easy for some people to hear and heed their consciences as it is for others? And that for some it is impossible? What reason do you have to believe that everyone is capable of being good, regardless of the extent of love, abuse, misdirection or instruction they receive from others? Adn if you recognize even a small difference among people... if you agree that somehow a person like Mother Teresa was already born with qualities more sterling than those accorded to Adolf Hitler at his birth,... then, where do you stop? Why do you stop? Might it not be that, as it is written in the Epistle to the Romans, the Lord fits certain vessels for glory, and others for destruction; some for virtue, and some for vice? Perhaps these people, if their lives have any purpose at all, are here to teach us forebearance and forgiveness... To test, to challenge, and to exercise the muscles in our hearts through spiritual contest, so as to make them larger... To test the muscles in our brains, to see if we can learn to understand something or someone so very different from ourselves... To test the muscles of our wills, and the courage of our spirits, to see if we can go against the current, and speak words of compassion for those whom the moral majority have put out of their hearts, making it taboo to love them. Just maybe.
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ListensToTrees
Knowflake Posts: 5883
From: UK
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted August 31, 2007 10:43 AM
It is likely the man had a pretty messed-up childhood. He was probably surrounded by a lot of violence and abuse which desensitized him. It's probably all he knew. He didn't know any other way.Not all of us are blessed to be born into homes where we are taught moral values, love, stability, etc. I do, however believe in 'free will'. We have the choice what to do with the limited consciousness or perspectives that we have. Unfortunately, people make terrible mistakes they will truly regret some day and will have to pick up the pieces. We are not robots, but I believe we are taught to have a 'conscience'. Our conscience, our sense of right and wrong, all depends on what those who raised us told us. Once we tune into the 'Spirit' or 'Higher Self', that becomes our conscience. Violent people are too distracted by the world of illusion, but they will get bored of all that in time.....there will come a time in their immortal soul's lives when they will go through a period of rebirth and transformation which can be very painful.
As for what Christ taught.....I think there are so many contradictions and confusions here, in the Bible, that this debate (rather debate than argument) is probably going to last a while!
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Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake Posts: 9710
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted August 31, 2007 12:40 PM
The Supreme has no desire towards us, that it should centre about us ; but towards it we have desire, so that we centre about the Supreme. We have at all times our centre There, though we do not at all times look Thither. We are like a company of singing dancers, who may turn their gaze outward and away, notwithstanding they have the choirmaster for centre ; but when they are turned towards him, then they sing true and are truly centered upon him. Even so we encircle the Supreme always, and when we break the circle, it shall be our utter dissolution and cessation of being ; but our eyes are not at all times fixed upon the centre. Yet in the vision thereof is our attainment and our repose and the end of all discord, God in his dancers and God the true Centre of the dance. Plotinus, Enneads: VI, ix, 8. And so it is, we dance around the Center, on our journey toward the Center, filled with loving-kindness for all, giving freely with no concern for any reward, filled with the glorious expression of unbounded Love, Harmony and Beauty. with love, wahiduddin IP: Logged |
Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake Posts: 9710
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted August 31, 2007 12:57 PM
quote:
It is likely the man had a pretty messed-up childhood. He was probably surrounded by a lot of violence and abuse which desensitized him. It's probably all he knew. He didn't know any other way.
This is genius.
But then you go on to say that he had free will. How can a person have free will, or any choice at all, if they only know one way??? If they don't know any other way, how can they know any other way to choose?
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Solane Star
Knowflake Posts: 5392
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted August 31, 2007 01:01 PM
HSC!! Just let it go!!!IP: Logged |
Happy Dragon
Knowflake Posts: 3161
From:
Registered: Apr 2005
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posted August 31, 2007 01:04 PM
just wanted to add ( to prev post ) .. that in my veiw .. the death penalty is not neccessarily a deterent..
some criminals may even see it as state assisted suicide ..
and .. it's not unknown for an innocent person to have been put to death ..i couldn't find detailed info regarding mr.couey ..
but did note mention that he might be mentally retarded ..
is there any info on the web regarding his upbringing and early life ?? here are two well known uk cases ..
~ http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/weird/west/index_1.html ~
~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_West ~
freddy west commited suicide in his cell before his trial
rosemary west is serving life ..
it's known that both had abusive childhoods ..
rosemary west was also abducted from a bus stop and raped at the age of 14 ..
and freddy west had two 'head injury' accidents as a teenager ..
ppl who knew him say his behaviour changed after those accidents ..
it seems he resorted to murder when their victims became too troublesome .. ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Brady ~
~ http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/predators/moors/index_1.html ~
myra hindley died in jail .. ian brady is still serving life ..
( btw she was a neptune/venus chart and there are no saturn aspects in brady's chart
( although .. he is a capricorn ..
( that is without knowing birthtime no idea as to a solution .. but something needs to be done ..
it seems to get worse and worse in this country ..
the murderers are getting younger and younger ..
now they are the children of the ecstasy popping generation ..
~ http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/england/london/6972631.stm ~
~ http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/england/merseyside/6963587.stm ~
~ http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/education/6963646.stm ~
~ http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/england/wear/6963480.stm ~ and this character gets spared from a jail term ?? ..
~ http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/6960166.stm ~ IP: Logged |
Solane Star
Knowflake Posts: 5392
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted August 31, 2007 01:04 PM
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Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake Posts: 9710
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted August 31, 2007 01:10 PM
thank teaselbaby for this one:
Anger and resentment can stop you in your tracks. That’s what I know now. It needs nothing to burn but the air and the life that it swallows and smothers. It’s real, though – the fury, even when it isn’t. It can change you… turn you… mold you and shape you into something you’re not. The only upside to anger, then… is the person you become. Hopefully someone that wakes up one day and realizes they’re not afraid to take the journey, someone that knows that the truth is, at best, a partially told story. That anger, like growth, comes in spurts and fits, and in its wake, leaves a new chance at acceptance, and the promise of calm. Then again, what do I know? I’m only a child.
~ From "The Upside of Anger"
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Lindaland
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