|
Author
|
Topic: Survey-Honesty, Lying, or Telepathy?
|
ListensToTrees
Knowflake Posts: 5106
From: Infinity
Registered: Jul 2005
|
posted September 17, 2007 08:29 AM
 
I believe in soul communication, which I think is different to 'telethapy'.  ------------------
It would be nice to evolve some sort of telethapy of the heart; empathy. A feeling, knowing inside how we are all interconnected. Empathy/ love would be a a law unto itself. I have been wondering- perhaps we are only 'Free' or have 'Free Will' in as much as we are spiritually awakened. We are like Gods in amnesia. This amnesia is the source of our soul-sickness. IP: Logged |
Unmoved
Moderator Posts: 1623
From: Born in S.Africa
Registered: Jun 2007
|
posted September 17, 2007 08:54 AM
LTT- I agree with you that speech is one of, if not the lowest, form of communication. About telepathy... I fugured that telepathy is communication without using any tangible tools, and without using the primary senses i.e. not using the body to communicate. The thing is, I believe that the mind is all over our body, but just more concentrated at the brain, hence we think our thoughts stem from the brain, but in "reality" thoughts come from every cell in our body. And the soul is that which holds the body together (like a matrix of some sort), not that which lives within the body - so the mind and soul are like a mirror and the reflected image upon it. The mind is a tool/a calculator/a 'machine' through which the soul communicates its desires... Actually, I am not sure where I am going with this but I was just saying that telepathy can be viewed as the soul communicating, working together with the mind to 'do its(the soul's) bidding'. So, telepathy, how I understood it is the communication of the soul to another soul, using the mind to create images or feelings to convey to another soul. All speculation, of course... but this makes sense to me. IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From:
Registered: Mar 2005
|
posted September 17, 2007 08:55 AM
Mirandee
said: quote:
Besides, isn't that what trust is all about? With trust of others you don't need to know for certain if they are being honest all the time. You just trust that they are.
Indeed...that is what trust is about! However I have trusted and trusted only to be severely burned in the past and sadly recently, because of naively trusting. I am accused of having trust issues...well hello! Experience has shown me to not trust easily because every damn time, and I mean every time I have trusted someone by giving them a benefit of doubt. it has eventually bitten me back in many ways, from simple annoyance up to the most cruel heartbreaking and insidious ways. Yeah trust is trust, but just trusting without knowing more often by my experiences leads to walking on eggshells, second guessing and heartbreak and breakups, or worse.  Solane Star quoted from: http://www.galacticdiplomacy.com/GD-Vis-Comm-Initiating-Cont-1.htm
quote:
Yet one must keep in mind that the information, even telepathically conveyed, is still subject to an individual¹s perceptions and filters of reality. If a topic is weighty or emotional for someone, it will be especially influenced by one¹s own subjective views and biases. Just as four people can witness the same event and relate very different versions of what happened, so too can a telepathic message be slanted in the same way by personal perspectives. The more internal spiritual work you have done in facing and mastering your own issues, the more universal your perceptions and truth becomes.
Which Isis echoed on a point:
quote:
Many liars get to the point where they actually believe the lie they've told themselves...and therefore being able to read their mind wouldn't really tell you that they're lying.
So, by those reasonings, firstly should come brutal honesty to ones' self. If one cannot even lie to self, then one cannot lie to others theoretically. Absence of brutal self honesty is where the lying and justifying lying to others begins. Lying, delluding to one's own self will cause them to lie to others automatically.
So having telepathy on top of self brutal honesty would tie up all the loose ends.NAM said: quote:
So, back to telepathy, I am not sure if I would feel comfortable with the fact that my kids could read my mind, what if there are some things I don't want them to know for their own good until they are older?
What if I am thinking about "doing" my partner and they happen to be around?
There has to be more to this to be able to totally understand this concept.
I feel the same. There would be failsafes for private things that do not need to be known to outsiders as it has nothing to do with their lives. Your children are not in any way touched by your intimate encounters, so why would they know or need to know its details? Anything that does not involve them they would not pick up on it. The mind would not sense any "need to know this" triggers.
quote:
I can see maybe the other person knowing when one is lying, but if something is not to be reveil then just politelly explain is not time for them to know....???? maybe???
like a telepathy that only works with lies but not everything else.
I agree! Like if you are planning a surprise, or have an idea that you will tell them but not just yet, yeah, I agree. But it is because those things are not of any deceptive or malicious intent. I would be quite content to know beyond a shadow of doubt when anyone is lying to me, for any reason, and what they really are thinking during the lying to me. Full telepathy would be nice however so one could sense another's emotion and be able to help, soothe, celebrate, or avoid that person.------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From:
Registered: Mar 2005
|
posted September 17, 2007 09:11 AM
Unmove said: quote:
Why is it that whenever we communicate Fayte, I get goosebumps? Huh?
We will unravel that intriguing mystery in time!  quote:
Okay, now we are going to have an Unmoved digs Fayte.m thing and digress from the topic, but so be it. Fayte.m you touch my heart - and I know that I don't have to substantiate that this is not a lesbian vibe going on, but just total love for another person. Thank you for your friendship. I think the same, and more, of you.
Our feelings are indeed mutual and that gives me a great joy and contentment I rarely find in others. You are a rare and treasured blessing Unmoved!  Thank you for letting me into your heart and thank you from the depths of my soul for allowing me into yours! Words fail me so I will leave it at that! You already know how I feel and think about you!
Love and Blessings to you my dear friend.
Namaste`------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From:
Registered: Mar 2005
|
posted September 17, 2007 09:12 AM
ListensToTrees said: quote:
Pure communication is are kind of timeless feelings; whole concepts absorbed in one moment, where they are beyond words.With skill and effort, sages throughout the ages have tried to bring these truths down to our level. The lower form of communication- words.
Ahh yes....how the language does help and restrict us at the same time! I agree, emotional empathy must be in the mix be it words and or telepathy.
------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From:
Registered: Mar 2005
|
posted September 17, 2007 09:19 AM
LTT said: quote:
I believe in soul communication, which I think is different to 'telethapy'.
I believe in that too and have only had that with a handfull of folks to date in a mutually sharing way. It is indeed a gloriously wonderful thing! However when it is only a one way thing it can be a disturbing thing too. If one feels/reads another's soul but that other cannot do the same, and has self esteem and insecurity issues, it does eventually create a schism.
No matter how often I would tell said type of person I really love and care about them, they cannot feel/read my heart and soul, and odds are they have been lied to and emotionally abused so many times that they let their previous experiences color their perceptions and they cannot let themselves believe even me. I wish those ones could read my mind, heart and soul and feel what I feel for them. But their emotional shields will not let them know me and in that knowing believe me, Nor can I send my thoughts and feelings to them on a level that would erase all their fears of what I feel and think.
There are a few people I deeply love with whom I wish I could give them the complete book of myself so they would understand and know beyond a shadow of doubt that my words are real.------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ IP: Logged |
Solane Star
Knowflake Posts: 5392
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2005
|
posted September 17, 2007 09:20 AM
With coming back with a reply like that to ones quote, looks to me like we do still have ongoing trust issues and are still blaming others for our choices in life. Starts to look like ones only wants telepathy so that they can call another a LIAR!!! For people they don't trust that have bitten them back, as you put it. Naively trusting?????????? Your not calling her truth or her a Liar are you???? Just asking, because it's coming off that way to me. Someone not to be trusted???? quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Besides, isn't that what trust is all about? With trust of others you don't need to know for certain if they are being honest all the time. You just trust that they are.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Indeed...that is what trust is about! However I have trusted and trusted only to be severely burned in the past and sadly recently, because of naively trusting. I am accused of having trust issues...well hello! Experience has shown me to not trust easily because every damn time, and I mean every time I have trusted someone by giving them a benefit of doubt. it has eventually bitten me back in many ways, from simple annoyance up to the most cruel heartbreaking and insidious ways. Yeah trust is trust, but just trusting without knowing more often by my experiences leads to walking on eggshells, second guessing and heartbreak and breakups, or worse. Am I aloud to ask why this is posted here?????
IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From:
Registered: Mar 2005
|
posted September 17, 2007 09:41 AM
Solane Star said: quote:
With coming back with a reply like that to ones quote, looks to me like we do still have ongoing trust issues and are still blaming others for our choices in life.Starts to look like ones only wants telepathy so that they can call another a LIAR!!! For people they don't trust that have bitten them back, as you put it. Naively trusting?????????? Your not calling her truth or her a Liar are you???? Just asking, because it's coming off that way to me. Someone not to be trusted???? quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Besides, isn't that what trust is all about? With trust of others you don't need to know for certain if they are being honest all the time. You just trust that they are.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Indeed...that is what trust is about! However I have trusted and trusted only to be severely burned in the past and sadly recently, because of naively trusting. I am accused of having trust issues...well hello! Experience has shown me to not trust easily because every damn time, and I mean every time I have trusted someone by giving them a benefit of doubt. it has eventually bitten me back in many ways, from simple annoyance up to the most cruel heartbreaking and insidious ways. Yeah trust is trust, but just trusting without knowing more often by my experiences leads to walking on eggshells, second guessing and heartbreak and breakups, or worse. Am I aloud to ask why this is posted here?????
I replied as I would have replied to anyone saying that Solane. I hope Mirandee does not take offense as you have here to my reply. I have had many such experiences with trusting naively and hoping when the little nagging vibes kept warning me, something feels just a bubble off here. I ignored those little warnings and trusted too easily and too soon and too deeply. Mirandee knows this and hopefully will not go off 1/2 cocked as you have at me. The only line I would change as it can be taken the wrong way is:I have trusted someone..replacing someone with anyone or anybody to better clarify even though I already said it...any and all with whom I have had that kind of encounter with, not any one person but several.I totally understood her, I simply disagreed.
And would disagree with you or anyone who would say that. I stated my reasons. If that "personally offends you", then step back and take a look at yourself and why you enjoy attacking me.
You really need to stay out of other folks' business. 
------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~
IP: Logged |
Solane Star
Knowflake Posts: 5392
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2005
|
posted September 17, 2007 09:56 AM
Just asking????It doesn't offend me and I don't feel I attacked you with me just asking why that part of your post was being presented in this manner and using Mirandee and others from your past trust issues as a reason for posting this one you disagree. Whats the point????? This is a pubic broad is it not, thats why I'm asking why that part is put in under Mirandee's quote, that's all???? Is there a problem with that or are you offended that I asked???? Because you now think I'm attacking you, why because I am not precieving it the why you really meant it????
IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From:
Registered: Mar 2005
|
posted September 17, 2007 09:57 AM
Solane said: quote:
Starts to look like ones only wants telepathy so that they can call another a LIAR!!! For people they don't trust that have bitten them back, as you put it.
Thank you however for your reply and your opinions. However your slam towards me and others who chose telepathy was out of line and rude and exceedingly judgmental of their and my motives for choosing telepathy.------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ IP: Logged |
Solane Star
Knowflake Posts: 5392
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2005
|
posted September 17, 2007 10:01 AM
So You Believe it to be Fayte!!!Then your right about that. Thanks, I guess I got my answer. IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From:
Registered: Mar 2005
|
posted September 17, 2007 10:13 AM
quote:
So You Believe it to be Fayte!!!Then your right about that. Thanks, I guess I got my answer.
quote:
Just asking????
Re-read what you wrote. That was not simply asking Solane. quote:
With coming back with a reply like that to ones quote, looks to me like we do still have ongoing trust issues and are still blaming others for our choices in life.Starts to look like ones only wants telepathy so that they can call another a LIAR!!! For people they don't trust that have bitten them back, as you put it. Naively trusting?????????? Your not calling her truth or her a Liar are you???? Just asking, because it's coming off that way to me. Someone not to be trusted????
quote:
It doesn't offend me and I don't feel I attacked you with me just asking why that part of your post was being presented in this manner and using Mirandee and others from your past trust issues as a reason for posting this one you disagree. Whats the point?????
because it's coming off that way to me. is what you said and thereby validating that you were not actually asking but accusing. quote:
This is a pubic broad is it not, thats why I'm asking why that part is put in under Mirandee's quote, that all????
Because it was a reply to that quote which I do not agree with and I gave my reasons. I would have replied the same to anyone who wrote that. It just happened to be Mirandee. So now you are perhaps implying I can reply to anyone but not her? This is an open board and she is a fellow knowflake and I am allowed to reply even to her. quote:
Is there a problem with that or are you offended that I asked????
Not at all in the asking, it was your judgements and all I took issue with. You do seem to have already assumed any reply I make must be an attack just because I disagree. quote:
Because you now think I'm attacking you, why because I am not precieving it the why you really meant it????
Your perceptions and not perceiving and comments and all the question marks do indeed make it appear so.And I cannot read your mind nor can you read mine.
If we could perhaps this nonsense would be put to rest once and for all. I certainly wish you could know my heart and soul. You would not have the animosity to me that you do. 
------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~
IP: Logged |
Solane Star
Knowflake Posts: 5392
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2005
|
posted September 17, 2007 10:17 AM
So I'm to believe that I made a slam onto you & others and that I'm being out of line and rude and EXCEEDINGLY JUDGEMENTAL.Aren't you being EXCEEDINGLY Extreme here??? Just asked what you were implying??? Must of read you wrong!!!! No need to attack me with your extreme judgements, that you say I'm doing. Quote: Thank you however for your reply and your opinions. However your slam towards me and others who chose telepathy was out of line and rude and exceedingly judgmental of their and my motives for choosing telepathy.
------------------ Thank-You IP: Logged |
Solane Star
Knowflake Posts: 5392
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2005
|
posted September 17, 2007 10:22 AM
Thats just how I seen it and I'm glad you cleared that up for me. Thanks!!!IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From:
Registered: Mar 2005
|
posted September 17, 2007 10:24 AM
quote:
So I'm to believe that I made a slam onto you & others and that I'm being out of line and rude and EXCEEDINGLY JUDGEMENTAL.Aren't you being EXCEEDINGLY Extreme here??? Just asked what you were implying??? Must of read you wrong!!!! No need to attack me with your extreme judgements, that you say I'm doing. Quote: Thank you however for your reply and your opinions. However your slam towards me and others who chose telepathy was out of line and rude and exceedingly judgmental of their and my motives for choosing telepathy.
------------------ Thank-You
quote:
Thats just how I seen it and I'm glad you cleared that up for me. Thanks!!!
Hows about agreeing we do not see eye to eye Solane and let it go until we can read each others minds?
This is going nowheres productive at this time. ------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ IP: Logged |
Solane Star
Knowflake Posts: 5392
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2005
|
posted September 17, 2007 10:28 AM
Agreed!!!! IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From:
Registered: Mar 2005
|
posted September 17, 2007 10:30 AM
Thank you. ------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ IP: Logged |
Solane Star
Knowflake Posts: 5392
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2005
|
posted September 17, 2007 10:33 AM
Your Welcome!!!!
IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From:
Registered: Mar 2005
|
posted September 17, 2007 10:41 AM
quote:
If you could read my mindIf you could read my mind love
What a tale my thoughts could tell
Just like an old time movie
bout a ghost from a wishin well
In a castle dark or a fortress strong
With chains upon my feet
You know that ghost is me
And I will never be set free
As long as Im a ghost that you cant see
If I could read your mind love
What a tale your thoughts could tell
Just like a paperback novel
The kind that drugstores sell
When you reach the part where the heartaches come
The hero would be me
But heroes often fail
And you wont read that book again
Because the endings just too hard to take Id walk away like a movie star
Who gets burned in a three way script
Enter number two
A movie queen to play the scene
Of bringing all the good things out in me
But for now love, lets be real
* I never thought I could act this way *
And Ive got to say that I just dont get it
I dont know where we went wrong
But the feelins gone
And I just cant get it back If you could read my mind love
What a tale my thoughts could tell
Just like an old time movie
bout a ghost from a wishin well
In a castle dark or a fortress strong
With chains upon my feet
But stories always end
And if you read between the lines
Youll know that Im just tryin to understand
The feelins that you lack
I never thought I could feel this way
And Ive got to say that I just to get it
I dont know where we went wrong
But the feelins gone
And I just cant get it back by Gordon Lightfoot
------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From:
Registered: Mar 2005
|
posted September 17, 2007 10:54 AM
Unmoved There have been scholarly discussions and essays on what you said. And even science is starting to see the mind body connection. Indeed, our mind is not the only factor in our thinking and feeling. Our brain, our body cells, our aura, our hormones, our chakras, and our souls...feelings and logic for balance and it all comes together in an intricate interweaving. Add to that past lives experiences and current incarnation experiences. It becomes quite complex.
I believe telepathy would free us to be real with each other and not have to reply on the written or spoken word to convey our real feelings and ideas.
You made perfect sense to me! quote:
LTT- I agree with you that speech is one of, if not the lowest, form of communication.About telepathy... I fugured that telepathy is communication without using any tangible tools, and without using the primary senses i.e. not using the body to communicate. The thing is, I believe that the mind is all over our body, but just more concentrated at the brain, hence we think our thoughts stem from the brain, but in "reality" thoughts come from every cell in our body. And the soul is that which holds the body together (like a matrix of some sort), not that which lives within the body - so the mind and soul are like a mirror and the reflected image upon it. The mind is a tool/a calculator/a 'machine' through which the soul communicates its desires... Actually, I am not sure where I am going with this but I was just saying that telepathy can be viewed as the soul communicating, working together with the mind to 'do its(the soul's) bidding'. So, telepathy, how I understood it is the communication of the soul to another soul, using the mind to create images or feelings to convey to another soul. All speculation, of course... but this makes sense to me.
I have a different view of the soul in relation to the body but will withhold that for now due to it being material in a book I and others hope to have published soon. ------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From:
Registered: Mar 2005
|
posted September 17, 2007 11:22 AM
Unmoved to LTT quote:
LTT- I agree with you that speech is one of, if not the lowest, form of communication.
Indeed!
Recently much turmoil and misunderstandings were I feel in part due to semantic differences in perceptions, and taking offense where none was meant, simply because of differences in how words or phrases, or slang, or colloquialisms, or cultural, regional dialects, and personal social concepts of what a word or phrase means were taken out of context and also not as meant or intended to be taken.
I will not bring up the words and phrase that were recently taken as extremely offensive, and not at all as I had intended them.
However suffice it to say, language too often fail us.
Wars, broken relationships, so much heartache and pain because of misunderstandings that the written or spoken word has inadvertently
caused just because ones did not ask..."but what did you really mean", or, "Am I hearing/reading you correctly?" and simply assumed they understood meaning and motive. ------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ IP: Logged |
Mirandee
unregistered
|
posted September 17, 2007 11:33 AM
Just a question. Why not just honesty? Why does honesty have to be deemed "Brutal?" I find the term "Brutal Honesty" disturbing. The definition of the word Brutal is:
1. befitting a brute:UNFEELING,CRUEL
2. HARSH,SEVERE
3. unpleasantly accurate The word Brutalize means: 1. to make brutal
2. to treat brutally It's just real disturbing to put those two words together when you are speaking of the virtue of honesty. You can be honest without being unfeeling, harsh, severe and cruel. You can be honest and at the same time compassionate towards the other person and with regard to their feelings. So why the term Brutal Honesty here? Honesty is a virtue. Brutal honesty does not sound much like a virtue to me and in fact I see that term as an oxymoron. In fact it disturbed me so much reading "brutal honesty" on this thread so often repeated that I googled it and among other things I found this: Lies People Tell
All people lie some of the time. They use words to convey their lies while their body language usually gives them away. This is curious. Why did evolution prefer this self defeating strategy? The answer lies in the causes of the phenomenon. We lie for three main reasons and these give rise to three categories of lies: The Empathic Lie – is a lie told with the intention of sparing someone's feelings. It is a face saving lie – but someone else's face. It is designed to prevent a loss of social status, the onslaught of social sanctions, the process of judgment involved in both. It is a derivative of our ability to put ourselves in someone else's shoes – that is, to empathize. It is intended to spare OUR feelings, which are bound to turn more and more unpleasant the more we sympathize with the social-mental predicament of the person being lied to. The lie achieves its goal only if the recipient cooperates, does not actively seek out the truth and acquiescently participates in the mini-drama unfolding in his or her honour. The reverse, brutal honesty, at all costs and in all circumstances – is a form of sadistic impulse.
What constitutes "brutal honesty" and how can we set it apart from mere, oft-commended honesty? Brutal honesty is: 1. Gratuitous (there is really no need to be honest) 2. Aggressive. You can say the same thing is many ways. Abrasiveness is not an essential part of honesty. 3. Repeated despite the obvious discomfort of the listener(s). 4. With the intent of causing pain or harm and with a clear enjoyment in inflicting them. http://samvak.tripod.com/fragments2.html#lies What is described here regarding brutal honesty is the reason why that term "brutal" in the context of describing honesty disturbed me so much.
IP: Logged |
Solane Star
Knowflake Posts: 5392
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2005
|
posted September 17, 2007 11:36 AM
I guess I did a good thing then, I asked for clarity on how I may of taken it one way and not the way I thought it may of been intended. Thats why I asked!!!! IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From:
Registered: Mar 2005
|
posted September 17, 2007 11:43 AM
Again different perceptions and even definitions come into play to complicate our communications. quote:
What is described here regarding brutal honesty is the reason why that term "brutal" in the context of describing honesty disturbed me so much.
I see it as the bits I have highlighted: quote:
Adj. 1. brutalbrutal - (of persons or their actions) able or disposed to inflict pain or suffering; "a barbarous crime"; "brutal beatings"; "cruel tortures"; "Stalin's roughshod treatment of the kulaks"; "a savage slap"; "vicious kicks"
barbarous, cruel, fell, savage, vicious, roughshod
inhumane - lacking and reflecting lack of pity or compassion; "humans are innately inhumane; this explains much of the misery and suffering in the world"; "biological weapons are considered too inhumane to be used"
2. brutal - harsh; "the brutal summer sun"; "a brutal winter"
unrelenting
intense - possessing or displaying a distinctive feature to a heightened degree; "intense heat"; "intense anxiety"; "intense desire"; "intense emotion"; "the skunk's intense acrid odor"; "intense pain"; "enemy fire was intense"
3. brutal - resembling a beast; showing lack of human sensibility; "beastly desires"; "a bestial nature"; "brute force"; "a dull and brutish man"; "bestial treatment of prisoners"
bestial, brute, brutish, beastly
inhumane - lacking and reflecting lack of pity or compassion; "humans are innately inhumane; this explains much of the misery and suffering in the world"; "biological weapons are considered too inhumane to be used"
4. brutal - disagreeably direct and precise; "he spoke with brutal honesty"
direct - straightforward in means or manner or behavior or language or action; "a direct question"; "a direct response"; "a direct approach"
I disagree with the word disagreeably however being used there.
Ok...
About the word brutal/honesty...
Yeah better words are needed. However we then run afoul of each person's concept of what is honesty and what is truth and what is mere opinion or even an assumption or judgement?Damn the limitations of language alone!   ------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ IP: Logged |
Mirandee
unregistered
|
posted September 17, 2007 11:53 AM
Yes, Star and you have as much right to question things said in a discussion here on the boards of LL as anyone else does. Now I am questioning as to why Fayte has chosen to use the word "brutal" in context with the virtue of honesty. Honesty is a highly esteemed virtue and it does not describe just moments in time of our lives but the overall way we live our lives. In other words, honesty is a matter of ethics. Our conscience guides us in determining when and how to apply our honesty with others. If we determine that being completely honest with another person would hurt them and cause them pain we may or may not choose to be honest with the person. It for each and everyone of us following our own conscience to determine that. If we decide to go ahead and be honest with the other person then our honesty should never be harsh or brutal. It should be tempered with compassion and love in our concern for the feelings of the other person. To be brutal in any way, even in being honest, is sadistic in nature and is designed strictly for the purpose of hurting the other person. Any form of honesty should FIRST be applied to ourselves in looking inwardly at how many ways we ourselves may not be honest. It's easy to say that we are an honest person but do we apply the same honesty to ourselves in self examination that we would apply to others? edited to add: Even though honesty is a highly esteemed virtue, like anything good it can also be used for evil purposes. We can use it for bad purposes while outwardly saying that we are just being honest while inwardly we may be manipulating the virtue of honesty for the purpose of deliberately hurting others. IP: Logged | |
Lindaland
UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! 
