In America, you say? Um, no. Western society has no history of circumcision; the Greeks and Romans even banned it, considering it obscene. The Catholic church issued Bulls against it. In America, it was introduced by a few Victorian-era 'doctors' as an inhibitor of masturbation. This is so easily documentable it's not even funny. Check the well-attributed quotes in my post above. Goodness, do some reading before you start preaching!
I've researched this for years, dude. Please don't insult me by pretending American society has always practiced male genital mutilation.
I've spoken to him , bud. He's Jewish. He's also posted that article in other places on the web, with a more elaborate biography.
What an ignorant and offensive statement! I'm not even going to go into it. Good grief.
Here's a great article on MGM by Rabbi Nathan Seagal, a man I greatly admire.
quote:
One Rabbis' Thoughts on Circumcision February, 2007By Rabbi Natan Segal
(www.natan.net)
Greetings and Blessings in your Birthing, Blessed Baby Boy! May your
life be full of love, wonder and joy! You are perfect as you are, a
bright and shining Radiant Star. Welcome to this world Holy Child -
we love you - may you grow in strength, gentleness, compassion, and
PEACE. Boys and girls, your creator has made you as you are meant to
be. May you be Happy, Healthy, Holy, and Free - to live.. to love..
to receive and give the love of your Creator in loving one another,
in blessing the life you live.
The birth of a child is indeed a wonder-full event. Full of the magic
and mystery of all creation.
We have some idea on how it happens, but our knowledge is vastly
limited. The mystery and magnificence of the event brings us to the
space of 'Awe".
Our tradition teaches us: "The beginning of wisdom is Awe of the heavens".
Each child brings a new vision, a new light a new awareness into our world.
In the baby naming ceremony, the infant is placed on an empty chair.
the chair is called the chair of Elijah, or the chair of the Messiah,
it is a recognition that each child brings a spirit of redemption
and a new light into our world.
As a Rabbi (rabbi means teacher), and a naturopathic physician, I am
continually looking at the natural world and beholding in wonder and
awe the glory of all creation.
All is with a purpose, all spaces have their time.. life is
meditation..the all is one..Divine..
There is a natural progression to our sexual development.
We are sexual beings in utero. Erections are common from five months
in the womb to just before the tomb! And vaginal fluids and tissue
swelling and stages of excitement are continually in flux.
We are sexual beings throughout our lifetime, a continual fountain of
pleasure, awareness, communion, healing and mystery.
Rumi (1207-1273)..the 13 century Persian poet said: "They try to say,
what we are, spiritual or sexual. They talk about Solomon and all
his wives. In the body of the world, they say there is a soul and
you are that. But we have ways within each other that will never be
said by anyone."(translation: Coleman Barks)
As i view sexuality from a nature perspective: We are given the first
decade of our lives to explore and play, learn and enjoy,(self-
centered sexuality). Then pro-creation gets added to this mystery and
hence, more responsibility,consciousness,awareness of another, and
nurturing.
If we miss out on early childhood sexual development, our sexual
maturity is stunted.
And we become immature sexual beings in adult bodies..This is quite
obvious from viewing our own culture and the world at large.
It is normal and natural for a two year old boy to run around pulling
himself by his penis..stretching his foreskin and making people
around him smile..like he has himself on a leash!
A two year old girl will likewise rub her clitoris..and get some
pleasure..and then move on to other things, and then return to
rubbing..
We are born with the capacity for orgasm..but young children are
rarely motivated to stimulate themselves to climax..but they do enjoy
foreplay! (a major lesson for all of us!)
They are great teachers of 'outercourse', sensual play without a
specific goal. Just being in the 'here and now'...and being in joy
pleasure and delight.
And there are cultures, such as in the Philippines that will
masturbate their crying infants..bring them to orgasm..and they go to
sleep..
In Bali the infant is not put down for the first 9 months.( But, they
live in extended families, with uncles and aunts and cousins and
siblings and friends all over the place with grandparents and
assorted elders who have the patience and delight to sit and hold
these holy new beings of God's light.) He/she is held with a cloth
under their bottom, people come to greet them and 'gently' touch his/
her genitalia..which produces a smile..on both the infant and the one
who touches!
In our current American culture any notion of childhood sexuality is
labeled as 'abuse'.
We will sooner our children watch violence on tv, play with toy guns
and soldiers..we will spank them, verbally abuse them, keep them
bound in diapers and clothes, so they cannot have access to touch or
pleasure themselves.
When a child reaches down to touch himself..the parent usually gives
a 'NO message', and places a toy or a thing in the child's hands. the
message is..NO!, do not look for pleasure in your ownself..pleasure
is 'outside' yourself...and if you get the right 'things' you will
be happy..
Hence, our obsession with material consumption and continually
looking outside of ourselves for the right 'toy' to bring our
happiness and peace.
In the Trobriand islands children are having sexual intercourse at
the age of 5! (Of course they don't have movies or malls,video-games
or t.v)
Is this perverted? Well, what do you want them to do?..sit in school
houses..read books..play video games..and take medication for
attention deficit disorder?
Is it possible that the real deficit is what we are asking our
children to pay attention to?
Loving and delight is the greatest dance there is..and the more we
are away from this dance the greater our frustration loneliness and
despair.
The early Egyptians gifted us with circumcision. The patriarch
Abraham was 99 years old when he made the covenant (hebrew: Brit')
with Yahweh. He circumcised himself. And we know that it was a small
symbolic cut..the removal of the tip of the foreskin that hung over
the glans.
In the second century , the Jews at this time were wanting to
participate in the Greek and Roman olympics..they competed in the
nude. The Greeks and Romans only allowed 'intact' males..as they
celebrated the human form in its wholeness and completeness.
So, if a Jewish man wanted to compete..he would hang some weights
from his existing foreskin and 'restore' himself. The Rabbis of this
era did not take kindly to this practice of physical assimilation so
they instituted two new rituals into the circumcision procedure.
1.Periah..the complete removal of the foreskin, exposing the glans,
and in some cases, the removal of the frenulum (the extra-sensitive
band of tissue on the underside of the penis.)
2.Metzitzah..the sucking of the blood from the cut penis
These two procedures are still performed among Orthodox Jews world wide.
So, from a simple snip at the time of Abraham, we now have a major
blood-letting ceremony, complete with blood sucking.
This has got to stop..it is endangering the sexual integrity and
health of our men and women and it has major potential for dividing
the Jewish people.
Deuteronomy 10:16 says: "Circumcise the foreskin of your heart,"
In Hebrew, the word foreskin is 'orlah'.. there is an 'orlah'
covering the ear..and the heart..
What is preventing us from 'hearing the word of God and opening our
hearts in love and compassion.. This is the real circumcision that
needs to occur. and it is a life-time learning ceremony.
According to most Jewish teachings there are 613 commandments in the
Torah (Bible-Old Testament). 248 positive commandments (Mitzvot
Aseh), and 365 negative commandments(Mitzvot Taaseh). Although not
all rabbis are in agreement about this..actually, not all rabbis are
in agreement about anything...there is no 'Jewish universal field
theory.'(Humanistic Judaism does not even believe in God.) And the
same is true for all the religions..not all Christians, Muslims,
Buddhists, believe the same way.(more often than not they will fight
and war with each other re: belief..sad but true)..
So, i find it fascinating (and disturbing) that young bright couples,
who practice very little of the 613 commandments..will have major
surgery performed on their baby boys in the name of a tradition that
they know little about and are not even practicing..
Well, how Orthodox do you want to be...is it the more foreskin that
is removed...the more Jewish your child will be?
Will you include the blood sucking ceremony?
Circumcision is not a guarantee of Jewishness.
It was introduced into our American culture by Dr. John Kellogg (yes,
the Kellog cereal man) ..(he also favored female circumcision)
He said that it was a cure for masturbation!..(it's not)..and
likewise it is not a procedure that guarantees holiness, compassion
or wisdom in our sex.
Infancy is a most sacred and special time. At no time in life is
physical tissue more sensitive and responsive to touch,taste, sound,
temperature etc.
Infancy is also the period of greatest transparency. An infant does
not fake pleasure or pretend pain.
It is true to its feelings a hundred percent of the time. Our sacred
tasks as caretakers of this sensual-spirit being is to help it
maintain its comfort and presence, delight and peace. He/she will
inform us immediately if we are not doing something right.
I have witnessed hundreds of circumcisions, the baby boy usually lies
in bliss and blessing and as soon as his penis is touched it gets
erect...and then he is held down..either with a restraining unit or
by an elder, and then he is cut...and he screams, and cries..
How is this event stored in memory? What are we doing to our
children?...and why?
Young Moslem men get circumcised between the ages of 12 and 15..can
this be cited as a partial explanation for their anger?
I don't know..You don't know..We don't know..and that's the truth of
it..Forgive us dear Lord ..for we know not what we do
We have so much pathology (sickness/disease) around our sexuality
that it makes no sense to cut off parts of our anatomy because some
second century rabbis thought it was a good idea.(these are the same
rabbis that said we can pray for a baby boy up until the third month
of pregnancy.)(The Talmud is a vast sea of discussion, learning and
response..full of good information and misinformation..in my humble
opinion i find a lot of their health information sorely lacking.)
Boys are born with foreskins and girls with hymens (the sheath-like
covering over the entrance to the vagina). They both have a reason
and purpose. It is their own surprise package..for them to open..a
special present from their Creator. We have no right to open their
private packages. (to cut or fully retract the male penis, or
penetrate the girls vagina.)
Soft touches, gentle cleaning, massage, awareness of pleasure in
holiness and thanksgiving..Yes. Forceful manipulation, retraction,
penetration..No.
Let the children explore their own sexual organs all they want. It is
their body, they must learn how to pleasure themselves, nurture,
and grow, and explore others with permission. If they want a
circumcision at the age of thirteen or 99 that is their choice.
Allow him access to it...he will stretch and open it..
Boys who are not given access to their genitalia, can develop
'phimosis' a condition where the foreskin is
stuck to the glans and does not retract. The solution for this
problem is 'circumcision'.
Likewise, a common procedure with virgin brides,(young women who did
not have any clitoral stimulation during childhood) is removal of
clitoral adhesions, and these women are much more apt to have
difficulty with sexual pleasure especially orgasm.
It's their body ..allow them to feel themselves... the entire body is
an erogenous zone full of pleasure and delight . a learning
laboratory for sensations , and awareness. We're here to learn and
grow and the more we are able to be in touch with ourselves, the
greater our capacity to be present with others.
" If I am not for myself ... who will be for me ? If I am only for
myself .. what am i ?
And if not now ... when ?
As parents and caretakers of children it is not our task to make them
into copies of ourselves but to allow them to be the unique and
beautiful spirits that they are.
Sex in Hebrew is called 'beah' or 'knowing..and adam 'knew' eve and
she conceived.
One must first learn and 'know' oneself..in order to be able to
'know' another.
Marriage in Hebrew is "Kiddushin" .."Holiness"..wholeness and
holiness sound the same and are closely related. When we see or sense
the wholeness and inter-connectedness of all creation..this leads
us into paths and directions of holiness.
In the middle of 2006, a study was published concerning HIV
transmission and circumcision among African males. The conclusion of
this study, recommended circumcision as a form of prevention for HIV.
I was not surprised at the results. "Cleanliness is next to
Godliness"..and if the foreskin is gone...then viruses and bacteria
have less places to hide..
In the same vein, we can remove our children's teeth ..and there will
be little possibility for tooth decay!
Another factor in HIV transmission in Africa is that many African men
prefer 'dry sex', which increases the possibility of tissue
abrasion and viral transmission.
In a Culture that performs clitorectomies and other variant forms of
female genital mutilation..because it is not deemed 'proper' for a
woman to have too much pleasure in sex,
it is not surprising that there is an enormous amount of dis-ease and
dysfunction in sex and sense.
Most people in western cultures view female genital mutilation as
primitive and barbaric; but hold male circumcision in a totally
different light. Our cultural bias obviously creates blinders from
which we cannot see clearly.
The removal of the clitoris is a small piece of skin.... in fact,
composed of the same cellular structure as the male foreskin, and the
lips.
If it were only the cutting of a small little piece of skin (male
foreskin or clitoris) that had no function or purpose it would not be
such a 'big' deal. But this small little piece of skin, grows along
with the rest of the body, to become a 3 by 5 inch sheet of
foreskin composed of the most sensitive tissue, with function and
purpose.
The code of the Jewish law is called "halacha" (the way). Within the
Code, there is a provision that if a mother looses a son because of
circumcision occurred, she is NOT obligated to circumcise her next
son. I extrapolate from this, the inter-connection of my human
family, that enough deaths and maiming have occured because of
circumcision. Therefore - circumcision is no longer a requisite.
Brit Milah' is the hebrew for the covenant of 'circumcision'. 'Mila'
also means 'word'.. We can welcome the child with songs and praises
and holy words..gentle tones, and soft touches and smiles.
Infants are great teachers of gentleness,tenderness, softness,
quietness, forgiveness, and peace. We can use a drop of wine instead
of blood, and give Praise to our Creator for the gift of life..and
celebrate together in joy holiness and thanksgiving.
If you feel that you must do some ritual 'blood-letting'..less is
better..return to the original concept, a small snip off the tip ..or
a drop of blood from a needle prick.
Just as we no longer practice the animal sacrifices in the
traditional temple, so let us not sacrifice an important piece of our
mammal in the temple of tradition. Let us be holy beings in our sex
and spirit - they are connected beyond our imaginings, and let us
start with bright beginnings, wonder, prayer, gratitude, and grace.
Spare the pain, nature will provide plenty of 'owie' opportunities.
Let us comfort, console, love, and caress, and yes - Bless each other
in holy love. Listen, Yah is One.
What really matters? Love - water - food - shelter! I choose life
that I might live, to love Yah with all my heart, with all my soul,
and with all my might. And, I will love my neighbor as myself.
Amen.
Lindaland
UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! 
posted September 19, 2007 09:53 PM
Even if there are no first-hand sources besides the bible, I think secondary sources coming from people who generally agreed that he did exist and had no reason to lie about his existence is good enough for me.
posted September 19, 2007 10:02 PM
posted September 19, 2007 10:34 PM
posted September 19, 2007 10:47 PM
