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Topic: Vegetarian Lioness: Little Tyke
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ListensToTrees Knowflake Posts: 3844 From: Infinity Registered: Jul 2005
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posted September 28, 2007 05:19 AM
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Solane Star Knowflake Posts: 5378 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Jun 2005
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posted September 28, 2007 07:34 AM
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Mirandee Knowflake Posts: 4812 From: South of the Thumb - Taurus, Pisces, Cancer Registered: Sep 2004
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posted September 28, 2007 09:35 AM
Xodian in his statement about the violent birth of Little Tyke as a possibility of her going against her natural carnivore instincts gave me lots of food for thought. That is a very strong possibility. Right after birth Little Tyke was exposed to a lot of blood and the violent death of her siblings. That must have been a very traumatic experience for her. That may be why she was so repelled by raw meat. I wonder if they ever considered cooking the meat???? It may have been the blood that repelled her in raw meat. I know that repels me. I cannot eat meat unless it is very well done. It's weird but also, if while eating meat I think about what I am eating I lose my appetite for it. I cook beef until it is very tender and melts in the mouth because if I have to chew it a lot it repels me. I don't really eat a lot of meat for that reason. The aminio acid, taurine. Is it possible that Little Tyke could have gotten that from eating grass on the ranch? I don't know what is in the chemical make-up of grass but for some reason dogs and cats like to eat grass so there must be something in grass that their bodies need for nourishment. Though my cats always throw it up after eating it. Of course I am going to attempt to anaylze this. LOL I tend to analyze everything. But mostly I just enjoy her story for what it is. Hope you can find the video of that show, bleak beauty. I remember that show from when I was a kid eons ago. I used to watch it every week. IP: Logged |
fayte.m Knowflake Posts: 9809 From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com Registered: Mar 2005
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posted September 28, 2007 09:50 AM
To begin with we must get a good grip on two terms . . . carnivore and omnivore. The cat is considered by scientists to be a strict carnivore and the dog is considered to be an omnivore. Both species are in the Class Mammalia and the Order Carnivora, but here’s the difference: The cat cannot sustain its life unless it consumes meat in some form. Dogs, however, are able to survive on plant material alone; they do not have to consume meat. But always keep in mind that dogs do best and by nature are primarily meat-eaters. Just because by definition they are omnivores (can digest and utilize plant and animal food sources) does not mean that plant material alone makes a good source of nutrition for the dog. Far too many dogs have been undernourished by those cheap grain-based dog foods. And grain-based cat foods are even worse!So a good way to think of it is that cats are carnivores, dogs are omnivores, but they both have evolved as hunters of other animals in keeping with their nature as meat-eaters. Taurine... An amino acid that is not built into proteins, but is distributed throughout most body tissues. Taurine is important for healthy functioning of the heart, retina, bile fluid and certain aspects of reproduction. Cats – Must eat preformed Taurine and since Taurine is not found in plant tissues, cats must consume meat to obtain Taurine. Cats can’t make their own, therefore, Taurine is essential in the diets of cats. Here again, meat has to be supplied to the factory so the Taurine can be extracted for its many uses. http://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/catsaredif.html Why Do Cats Need Taurine? Taurine is a colorless, crystalline compound which is found in the free form in invertebrates and in the bile of mammals. It promotes the intestinal absorption of lipids (fats) as cholesterol. Taurine is an important part of the feline diet and is essential in preventing a disorder in cats called "dilated cardiomyopathy" (which is a failure of the heart muscle whereupon the heart tissue itself swells to try to meet the animal's circulatory needs), as well as being very significant in helping feline reproduction and prevention of a progressive retinal disease called feline central retinal degeneration(FCRD) which will cause blindness if left untreated. In queens that have taurine-deficient diets, there are more still births, fewer live kittens born, and ultimately fewer kittens that survive to the weaning stage. In the wild, rodents formed a large part of the feline diet, and the rodents had significant levels of taurine in their brains. When we began to domesticate cats and feed them commercial cat foods instead of their wild diets, taurine deficiency started appearing. This was of great concern, especially in the 1970's, when it was proven that many commercial cat foods on the market at that time contained an inadequate amount of taurine. Cats are different from other animals in that they cannot make enough taurine internally to meet their needs, and they must have enough taurine supplied to them in their food. Since these studies came out, most major pet food companies revised their pet food formulas to include taurine. Interestingly enough, not all taurine is equal, and some commercial foods need to have even more taurine added to their formulas to allow for proper feline absorption and utilization of the taurine in their foods. http://www.petcaretips.net/cat_taurine.html ------------------ "Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!" ~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~ ~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~ ~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~ ~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~ Everything changes. Fear not the changes. "My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!" }><}}}(*> <*){{{><{ ~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ IP: Logged |
OMG Jay Knowflake Posts: 360 From: Registered: Sep 2007
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posted September 28, 2007 10:07 AM
If a Lion can be a vegan then a cat can too!!!Bull crap! IP: Logged |
Mirandee Knowflake Posts: 4812 From: South of the Thumb - Taurus, Pisces, Cancer Registered: Sep 2004
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posted September 28, 2007 11:10 AM
Thanks for the information, Fayte Even human beings need certain nutrients to maintain our bodies and keep it functioning smoothly. Protein being a very essential nutrient. Humans do have a choice as to the source of that protein, if not in meat then things like beans etc. Animals in the wild follow instincts, not choices. They also don't have access to supermarkets and restaurants as we do. I was thinking along the lines that grass and weeds grow up out of the ground and since when all life, including us, dies it decomposes and returns to dirt. So I was wondering if in that decomposition process of animal life there might be taurine in the ground. When I was a toddler I used to love the smell and taste of dirt and ate it all the time. My mom took me to the doctor for that habit and he told her it was probably due to a lack of some vitamen or chemical in my diet. Even humans instinctively know if on a sub-conscious level only, what their bodies need to survive. And in cases that have been documented in history even humans if in a situation where they have no food source will eat the flesh of other humans to survive. The survival instinct in all forms of animal life is that strong. IP: Logged |
SattvicMoon Knowflake Posts: 2282 From: Registered: May 2007
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posted September 28, 2007 11:21 AM
quote: If a Lion can be a vegan then a cat can too!!!Bull crap!
If all others can behave on this discussion board so can you!
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AcousticGod Knowflake Posts: 11943 From: Pleasanton, CA, USA Registered: May 2005
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posted September 28, 2007 11:22 AM
Don't feed dogs alcohol, macadamia nuts, chocolate, grapes ...shoot I can't remember the rest of the list. My roommate showed me a one page thing (in National Geographic) on things that are very bad for your dog to eat. I'll come back and edit as I remember more.Frankly, I'm a little tired of only OMG Jay threads. There's gotta be something better to talk about than her love of animals and disgust with humans. IP: Logged |
SattvicMoon Knowflake Posts: 2282 From: Registered: May 2007
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posted September 28, 2007 11:24 AM
quote: There's gotta be something better to talk about than her love of animals and disgust with humans.
"love" for animals? I doubt it, it is hate towards some other things, that is appearing as "love" towards animals!IP: Logged |
ListensToTrees Knowflake Posts: 3844 From: Infinity Registered: Jul 2005
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posted September 28, 2007 01:21 PM
I read that when people examined the blood samples of a number of vegetarian Hindus once, they found that there was no vitamin B12 lacking.They had been obtaining the B12 from tiny, tiny residues from insect eggs, etc on the fresh organic fruit and vegetables they were having. However, it is different when produce isn't organic or when it has been thoroughly washed and cooked, etc *There are other sources of B12 than meat. Like yeast extract and spirulina. IP: Logged |
OMG Jay Knowflake Posts: 360 From: Registered: Sep 2007
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posted September 28, 2007 01:23 PM
(**personal attack by OMG Jay deleted by Moderator**)IP: Logged |
Dulce Luna Knowflake Posts: 4598 From: The Asylum Registered: Mar 2006
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posted September 28, 2007 01:29 PM
Girlfriend, what the hell does your beloved cat eat then? Coz last time I checked, they love meat as much as their African cousins do. IP: Logged |
ListensToTrees Knowflake Posts: 3844 From: Infinity Registered: Jul 2005
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posted September 28, 2007 01:30 PM
SattvicMoon, I think I understand "her".... It isn't what you said. It's just quite a task for someone who has empathy towards animals to understand why other people can't feel this to. It's hard to understand how other people can commit such cruelty when you feel this empathy.But I think the answer is just that other people do not understand that empathy, not yet. They just can't perceive it. So they don't realize that the way they treat animals is evil at all. Just like when a snake or a lion hunts. They don't feel that it is evil. It's just pure survival for them. I feel that if we could only evolve a sort of telepathy of the heart, then empathy and love would be a law in itself. Probably the only law we would need, because no-one would have any desire to hurt anyone else, and there would be no misunderstandings. No competition, no insecurity..... "Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, "Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?" Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small doesn't serve the world. There's nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine, as children do. We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It's not just in some of us; it's in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we're liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others." ~by Marianne Williamson IP: Logged |
OMG Jay Knowflake Posts: 360 From: Registered: Sep 2007
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posted September 28, 2007 01:34 PM
I'm not you girlfriend!How dare you try to transform me into a lesbian! My cat's an American. He doesn't have relatives in Africa! IP: Logged |
fayte.m Knowflake Posts: 9809 From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com Registered: Mar 2005
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posted September 28, 2007 01:36 PM
TaurineTaurine is an amino acid which is not found in any plant-based food [Laidlow et al. 1990] and which is an essential nutrient in all mammalian cells. Herbivores are able to synthesize taurine from precursor amino acids derived from plants, whereas cats have completely lost the ability to synthesize taurine [Knopf et al. 1978]. Since all animal-based foods (except cow's milk) are rich sources of taurine [Laidlow et al. 1990], cats have been able to relax the selective pressure required for taurine synthesis because they obtain all of this nutrient that they need from their exclusive meat-based diet. LTT.. quote: *There are other sources of B12 than meat. Like yeast extract and spirulina.
Some folks are allergic to those and the choices are rare cooked or raw meat or regular B12 injections. Some folks have difficulty obtaining iron and Taurine from anything other than meat. Studies have shown this to be more so in individuals with RH- O- blood type. I personally know of folks who had deficiency based heart attacks at the ages of 16, 22, and 30 years of age after going to a complete vegetarian diet. Not everyone can be a vegetarian. They were also severely anemic. quote: Humans, unlike cats, still maintain the ability to synthesize taurine in the liver from precursor substances; however, this ability is quite limited and inefficient when compared to herbivores. Vegan vegetarians following diets devoid of animal products display low levels of both plasma and urinary taurine [Laidlow 1988]--levels which are indicative of the poor ability of humans to synthesize taurine. Similar to cats, this inability to efficiently synthesize taurine has come about because the selective pressure to produce this amino acid has been gradually reduced due to humankind's long reliance upon animal food, a food which is quite high in taurine. http://www.beyondveg.com/cordain-l/metab-carn/metabolic-carnivory-1a.shtml
------------------ "Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!" ~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~ ~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~ ~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~ ~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~ Everything changes. Fear not the changes. "My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!" }><}}}(*> <*){{{><{ ~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ IP: Logged |
ListensToTrees Knowflake Posts: 3844 From: Infinity Registered: Jul 2005
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posted September 28, 2007 01:38 PM
And I think DNA does what it wants us to. Cats may have evolved to need certain amino acids, but in time genes can evolve more suited to other diets. But we just have to keep it all in balance, I guess. It takes time.IP: Logged |
Dulce Luna Knowflake Posts: 4598 From: The Asylum Registered: Mar 2006
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posted September 28, 2007 01:44 PM
quote: I'm not you girlfriend! How dare you try to transform me into a lesbian!My cat's an American. He doesn't have relatives in Africa!
Are you retarded? The "African" cousins I was referring to are lions. Go read a book, sista.
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ListensToTrees Knowflake Posts: 3844 From: Infinity Registered: Jul 2005
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posted September 28, 2007 01:46 PM
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OMG Jay Knowflake Posts: 360 From: Registered: Sep 2007
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posted September 28, 2007 01:54 PM
I'm not you sista (**rest of sentence deleted by Moderator**)Why don't you go read a book? You're on this crap til 6am. And how do you know his cousins from Africa? Were you actually there when the Earth was created? Did you study their genes? IP: Logged |
Dulce Luna Knowflake Posts: 4598 From: The Asylum Registered: Mar 2006
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posted September 28, 2007 01:57 PM
Between school and work somehow I manage being on here that long...puleese. Just remember who spams this forum, hon. And anyways, if you hate carnivores and hope they should die then why do you still keep a cat? Hmmm? IP: Logged |
OMG Jay Knowflake Posts: 360 From: Registered: Sep 2007
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posted September 28, 2007 01:57 PM
OMG they look like twins!!!
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SattvicMoon Knowflake Posts: 2282 From: Registered: May 2007
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posted September 28, 2007 01:59 PM
quote: I'm not you sista you lesbian! Why don't you go read a book?You're on this crap til 6am.
Name calling should be edited out! Someone is crying for a ban - the earliest the better - good riddance! If you dont know how to behave, better learn and then come back. Psycho-circus! IP: Logged |
Dulce Luna Knowflake Posts: 4598 From: The Asylum Registered: Mar 2006
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posted September 28, 2007 02:00 PM
quote: And how do you know his cousins from Africa?Were you actually there when the Earth was created? Did you study their genes?
And as much as you claim to love animals sooo sooo much, somehow Biology is not your strong suit?? Even five year olds know that Lions are cats; big cats from Africa. IP: Logged |
fayte.m Knowflake Posts: 9809 From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com Registered: Mar 2005
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posted September 28, 2007 02:00 PM
Why do cats eat grass? Cats don’t eat grass as a source of nutrients. For them eating grass has a purely mechanical function. Ingested blades of grass trigger regurgitation of indigestible or hard to digest matter, like the cats’ own hair swallowed during grooming, or fur and bones of prey. Expelling this matter through regurgitation, similar to birds of prey, is safer than allowing it to pass through the digestive tract where it could possibly cause a blockage. http://www.felinefuture.com/health/catseatgrass.php ------------------ "Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!" ~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~ ~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~ ~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~ ~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~ Everything changes. Fear not the changes. "My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!" }><}}}(*> <*){{{><{ ~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ IP: Logged |
ListensToTrees Knowflake Posts: 3844 From: Infinity Registered: Jul 2005
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posted September 28, 2007 02:11 PM
"Talk to the hand, cos the face don't wanna hear it!"IP: Logged |