posted October 02, 2007 11:25 PM         

Posts flare up at LL repetively. We have a very mixed people here from heretics to religious people to spiritualists. Well beyond all that is pure love. Try to step there and see all of this as an illusion really. Anger, Pain, Jealousy, Guilt, attention disorders, and other negative qualities will just dissapear when you do. You are all of the illusions yet none of them. Not sure if it makes sense. Me neither so will cut short and go to bed soon ..zzz..

Any way, just be your self all the time and a good neighbor at the same time. No other rule is required.

Nothing is permanent. Lifetime ban is a ridiculous concept. What is this obsession of eternity with the west. Eternal damnation, captial punishment, etc.

Substitute lifetime ban with long exile.

Peace be with u all!!!

zzz.....

posted October 03, 2007 12:40 AM         

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Any way, just be your self all the time and a good neighbor at the same time. No other rule is required

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Pretty close to my number one rule and the only one I follow as the only truth I know.

"every action has a consequence...as long as you don't hurt anyone with those actions everything else is game"

posted October 03, 2007 10:07 AM         

if you detach , you are an island, and no man is an island...right?

You mean detach from beleifs? I have no beleifs, I am 36 yrs old , have two kids i am raising on my own and when they speak of God or things they are being taught in school I wonder what to really tell them.
If I detach as you are putting it, wouldn't I be not doing a service to my own kids.

I am sorry, I think detaching would be kind of like running away from your responsabilities.
Again, I say this with all respect and I am just trying to understand where you are coming from.That's all, just analizing and bringing your words into my life to find a positive for me.

posted October 03, 2007 12:17 PM         

May each of us be grounded firmly up above and mobile down here.

I have nothing against women, but they tend to be very mobile here. Always worrying and anxious, "Am i looking good?", "Why is my husband talking to that lady? " ....etc....

NAM I read ur other post, about the "me" attitude. I think u summed very great :smile: Perhaps its a side effect of being too self-reliant. Everyone needs some help, but the egoists never accept that.

As thirteen implied - feeling oriented people tend to get bounded by their feelings and its very very hard for them to see that.. does a insane person realize he is insane?

Does any one watch "Tell me you love me" on HBO? That kind of sums up. Its like u watch these people and u know they are wrong. Problem is they can't talk to u or u to them ....hehehe....

Detatchment comes from observing ur history? Do u have a record of being involved in many fights? Do u have a record of polygamous relationships....etc...etc....

If u understand u will never commit the same mistake again consciously.

Well gotta say more...no time to edit.

posted October 03, 2007 12:50 PM         

It would be very mentally unhealthy to detach from emotions. Emotions are our body's ' way of telling us something about ourselves.

The thing is to take responsibility for our own emotions and not give that power over to others. It's not what other people say or do that we can change. It's how we react to what others say and do that we can change.

No one can make you feel anything. YOU do that by how you react to others and events in your life. In doing that you are giving others the power over your emotions. You are allowing others to control your feelings, and along with that, your happiness.

The problem is not out there somewhere - it's not the world, it's not other people - the problem lies within each of us.

Mannu is talking about spiritual detachment. That's completely different than emotional detachment to your feelings or the feelings of others. Spiritual detachment is in effect being in the world but not a part of it. In other words, not owning anything that is not of the soul. Or as it is said, " Anything that doesn't bring you closer to God is useless." May be good, may make us happy for a time, may fulfill our needs, but it's not real. Only the things of the spirit and soul are real. For that reason however inept or imperfect it may be love is real.

It's true what Mannu says. We create our own worldview, our own realities from our imagination and our perceptions of other people and things that happen.

So yes, since it's only a creation from our imagination, what we see in others and the world is in that sense an illusion. It's an illusion of our own imagination and creation.

We can use that imagination to create a old new image of the world and other people. We create our own happiness and unhappiness in how we see and relate to things. For that reason we can create a life of heaven on earth or hell on earth. The choice is ours and it all begins within each of us.

You hear this alot. "If only that group or those people would change my life would be more pleasant and I would be happier. It's their fault. It's the world's fault. It's God's fault."

No. The world, God and other people are not the problem. YOU are the problem. I am the problem. We are all the problem and we can't change others or the world no matter how we may try. That desire only comes from the ego's need to control. We can only change ourselves and how we alone relate to the world and others.

I am not speaking for Mannu and what he may have meant but this is what I think he is talking about, spiritual detachment.

posted October 04, 2007 03:37 AM         

You know I always admire you, my friend. Take care...

Cheers

posted October 04, 2007 09:52 AM         

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Detach from emotions NAM. Ok let me try this and i call to other LL teachers to help answer NAM's question.
Here is what I have learned about this topic.
Emotions/Feelings. People tend to live their lives by their feelings. But emotions/feelings are not the truth of life- they feel like they are - that is how strong they are and how much they ATTACH themselves to us and form our beliefs. Pretty soon they are controlling you.
The truth of life lies in the higher realms. Spritual realms--this is where the understanding lies that we are all one, all connected. At this level I began to learn that I could still have my emotions ( cant get rid of them anyway) but i could also choose to no longer let them guide and control my life. I can control them.
I can consciencously choose to not become to attached to my emotions/feelings.
But in order to get to this level i had to learn about the spiritual realm. That was where reading came in. I read a lot because i was the student and i needed teachers.
There are a lot of books out there for this purpose: Richard Bach, Illusions / Lind Goodman, Star Signs, etc..

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do you know how many good things have come out of feelings and emotions?
The same books you are reading are an inspiration of feelings and emotions... ponder on that.

Songs, inventions, laws, quotes, phrases.
Feelings and emotions are just the fuel, there is nothing wrong with them, but that is just my opinion.

I welcome my feelings and emotions, they have gave me the strenght to keep going to help people, do you know how good does it feel when you do a good deed and someone else rewards you with a "thank you" from the heart? If it wasn't for the feelings and emotions and how passionate I am (we are) when we do something I wouldn't have the rewards of feeling I have serviced someone.

posted October 04, 2007 10:09 AM         

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NAM I read ur other post, about the "me" attitude. I think u summed very great :smile: Perhaps its a side effect of being too self-reliant. Everyone needs some help, but the egoists never accept that

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There was a time when that was truth of who I was and I failed, I am not super woman, I am who I am, and sometimes I do need help as well.
All I know is that at this point of my ife I know myself very well and I know my strenghts and my flows.

Just two nights ago I went to walk feeling tired and pretty much cried the whole time (work issues) when I came home my best friend saw me and realized I was getting overwelmed with work and the kids etc.
yesterday while I was gone all day he cleaned the whole house , did laundry and rearranged some things to make life a little easier with the house.
At any other point in my life I would have felt more like a looser because "someone else" is helping me and I am not in control of everything, but not this time, I realize now (because of you guys) that we are really all connected and we need of each other to make it.Not as having others "carry" with us but when we fall it is nice to have that person that stops and helps you get up, even better when they smile as they are helping you up.

This is what scares me about this place and your continuos remarks about ego and the actions of ego being solely for the satisfaction of ego and that in turn being a bad thing.
I don't think so, but I see everytime you guys are presented with a challenge and someone else is making you think about "X" situation a lot of you rely in the "is an ego" thing, as in:
"ego = strenght; strenght is not good because is just feeding your ego and you shouldn't feel as you are better than anyone else."

It puzzles me to great extend that feeling good about achieving something in life in the end is not good.
Feels like some of you are just standing still with no emotions and don't want to act on anything for the fear of an "ego trip"
to me standing still is same as death in a way.

posted October 04, 2007 10:10 AM         

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I think we should have a group hug

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posted October 04, 2007 11:05 AM         

Bingo!

Maybe.....

posted October 04, 2007 11:30 AM         

"[quoote]Mannu is talking about spiritual detachment. That's completely different than emotional detachment to your feelings or the feelings of others. Spiritual detachment is in effect being in the world but not a part of it. In other words, not owning anything that is not of the soul. Or as it is said, " Anything that doesn't bring you closer to God is useless." May be good, may make us happy for a time, may fulfill our needs, but it's not real. Only the things of the spirit and soul are real. For that reason however inept or imperfect it may be love is real[/quote]
Can you give me a real life eaxmple of this?
in other words apply this to a specific part of someone's life not a general thought.
thank you."

I truthfully do like your questioning these things, NAM. Questioning is a very important part of faith. Never stop questioning. I admire that greatly in you.

First I think spiritual detachment needs to be expained further. I understand your frustration, NAM. That happens a lot at LL and other forums when people throw out what I call " one liners" in short posts and don't bother to explain what they are talking about. It happens in cases like this when we also throw out what is a spiritual "ideal" - or something to strive for - without explaining it further.

So first I am posting a short article that in my mind does it explain spiritual detachment in understandable words.

If I have time right now I will follow with my own thoughts and the example you asked for in my life and what I have seen as examples in others here at LL. If I don't have time right now to follow up with my examples I will be back later this evening with that post.

But keep in mind I am a seeker too, NAM. I don't know all the answers. Wish I did. But I don't. That's why I like discussing these things. I learn in the process along with others. There is no right and wrong in anyone's thoughts on spiritual matters. We all have different paths so we will all have different thoughts. Somewhere in all the mix some truths lie. It's up to each of us to decide what is truth and what is not and we do that on a soul level along with our reasoning and logic of the mind.

posted October 04, 2007 11:31 AM         

Count the number of times you got emotionally involved in something against your will and better judgment. How many times have you got angry, frustrated or disappointed? How many times have your moods swung high and low? Each time you told yourself that next time you will stay cool, and yet each time you forget what you said.

Life is like this. When it comes to your personal affairs, it is hard for you to be indifferent. You get involved, and this is quite natural, otherwise life would have been boring. Involvement makes life ticking and active.

Detachment is being cool and uninvolved on the emotional level. It is definitely not indifference. Indifferent people do not care, do not mind, and are not active and initiative. On the other hand, a detached person can be very active and caring, though he accepts calmly whatever happens.

If he cannot do or change something, it does not disturb his peace of mind. On the other hand, if he needs to do something, he will pursue it whole-heartedly. He will do everything needed to succeed. If it does not work out, he stays calm, and will either try again, or forget the matter easily and move to something else.

Every spiritual tradition speaks about detachment, but detachment cannot be confined only to spirituality. Detachment is important in daily life, in pursuit of ambitions, and on the spiritual path. It is of great importance to everyone, whether pursuing spirituality or material success.

Let me give you two examples of detachment, one on the spiritual path, and the other in daily ordinary life. A person who engages in meditation tries to quieten his mind during meditation and in his everyday life. If he gets emotionally involved with his thoughts, he follows them, forgets about his meditation and concentration, and loses his peace of mind.

On the other hand, the more detached he is, the easier it is for him to ignore disturbing thoughts. Detachment helps him to stay collected and concentrated.

When someone says to you something you do not like, you may become disappointed, angry, or feel down. Why is it so? Because you value other's people words and opinions, more than you value your thoughts and opinions of yourself. You let other's people thoughts, words and actions influence your happiness, actions and reactions. Your happiness and actions depend on them.

On the other hand, if you learn to stay detached, you may listen to what they say, but as if they are saying it about someone else. If they are right, you can benefit from what they say. If they are wrong, you go on with your life as if nothing was said.

Have you ever thought how much time and energy is wasted every day, over brooding on thoughts and feelings, because of the lack of detachment? Much of the anger, frustration, disappointments and fights come about because there is no detachment.

Detachment develops automatically, when one engages in meditation. It is a gradual automatic process. In meditation one endeavor not to follow the thoughts and feelings that rise. It is a time of a mental and emotional vacation. Meditating day after day develops the habit of staying cool and calm, not only during meditation, but also in all daily life.

If you practice any kind of meditation, sooner or later you will start to experience detachment. You will find that you feel and behave in a different way under circumstances that previously raised anger or agitation. You will find that you handle your daily affairs of life in a calm and relaxed way.

Real detachment means inner strength, and the ability to function calmly and with full inner control under all circumstances. A detached person is not harassed and hurried, and can do everything with concentration and attention, thus insuring a successful outcome of his actions.

posted October 04, 2007 11:39 AM         

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Be back later. Have chores to attend to here.

posted October 04, 2007 11:50 AM         

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I truthfully do like your questioning these things, NAM. Questioning is a very important part of faith. Never stop questioning. I admire that greatly in you.

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