posted November 14, 2007 07:40 PM         

What is the point?

I know I am a nobody in here, but I just want to learn what NOT to do.
So one simple answer, one liner...

posted November 14, 2007 08:00 PM         

quote:

---

It's definitely one award here on this thread that should not be given to a select few for any one person to judge who deserves it and who doesn't.

---

That was a judgment on the award as well as the giver of the award.

You got upset with her here saying that she made her award into a competition, but so did you. As you said, you were trying to, "raise it to a higher level," which implies that it's level wasn't sufficient where it stood. You wanted your version to compete with her version. I know you were motivated by a sense of fairness, but while it was fair to the masses it wasn't exactly fair to Fayte. It was her award to do with and define as she pleased. If it was your award, and Fayte had commented similarly, then you'd also take offense.

Lord knows I don't to want to be between you two. You're both great people in your own ways. You're both forgiving people. You both can deal with people having different standards than your own.

I don't get why there's a need to comment on what the other says all the time. It's getting to the point that it's predictable that if one of you comments on what the other says it will escalate to a huge misunderstanding. I also don't understand why the conversations jump out of context and turn into personal stuff having nothing to do with the original dispute. You both are quick to deny that that [non-LL] stuff had anything to do with you stating your opinions, but you accuse one another of having that motivation first chance you get.

posted November 14, 2007 09:25 PM         

For a Good Job Well Done!!!

posted November 14, 2007 10:02 PM         

With that said, it disheartens me to see any form of hurt and pain being inflicted on anyone, regardless of whether I know this person or not. I am attracted to peace and upheaval makes me highly uncomfortable, but even if I prefer one than the other, I see a place for both in this world. Therefore, it is clear that this repeated exchange between the two camps means that the private issue is not resolved and it desires to be resolved. And, this will carry on until it is resolved. The universe will keep on supplying opportunities for peace to be made, through conflict, because the universe knows that your deepest desires are to be at peace with one another.

We can lie to ourselves and say everything is fine, but we can not lie to our higher selves. They require a resolution and as long as the two camps resist to make peace, this conflict will persist. It is Universal Laws at work, and the universe is hearing your inner desire for these wounds to be healed and your call is being answered every time these conflicts occur; and when a repeated experience occurs, it merely means that the wound was not healed.

Now, fayte.m has been a wonderful person to interact with. She is dear to me and she is a friend. I respect her and this is due to the fact that I have been lucky to know her more than others. I like her the way she is, whether she is a liar (as Mirandee says) or not. It is of no consequence to me. The same goes for whether a person has "ill" feelings towards me, as fayte.m says Mirandee and Solane Star have towards me.

I do not fight fire with fire. I am a big fan of turning the other cheek, and I am peace loving. My love for a person is not determined by their love for me. Therefore, this should tell you all that I am not interested how you feel about me, it is nice to know, but it is not something I need to know. I love because I am a loving person, not because I desire for that love to be returned, and not because I am on a quest to win a popularity contest. I am a loner, and I love each person individually, for who they are NOW, not for what they were, not for whom they shall be, but because they have blessed me with their acquaintance NOW.

I am not blind, nor am I just a blundering happy idiot. I am a deep thinker and highly analytical. The reason why I have a happy-go-lucky attitude is not through
naivety but through experience.

These are a few theories that have gone through my mind.

Theory 1: fayte.m is lying. Mirandee and Solane Star are not as she said. They are not holding some grudge against me for existing because frankly, I have never done anything to them so it must be that I was born that irks them.

Reason to lie: To discredit Mirandee and Solane Star. To get herself painted well and to strengthen her campaign to prove her point that the two mentioned above are not as good as they seem.

Theory 2: fayte.m is telling the truth. She is merely telling LL what happened.

Reason: Because she is truthful and felt that this should be known.

Theory 3: Mirandee and Solane Star are lying. They do harbour some ill feelings towards me, but act as if there is nothing of the sort because they dislike people associated with fayte.m.

Reason to lie: Because they are holding up their public image on LL, because it might be deemed as immature and petty to feel this way. They have been hurt by fayte.m and they hold a grudge (amongst other reasons).

Theory 4: Mirandee and Solane Star are truthful. They have nothing against me.

Reason: Because there is nothing to have against me. They don’t know me, I don’t know them, therefore there could not be a logical reason to dislike a person for no reason.

Now... we have 4 possibilities (there are more), a long standing feud and me in the middle of it today. Why am I in the middle of this? Does it make sense to anyone?

There are also theories to that.
1. I am being used as a pawn for this feud by both sides.
2. My name was probably mentioned in passing and the effect was exaggerated.
3. Philosophically, there is a greater reason for being dragged into this, which I am still to figure out.
4. I am merely a catalyst in this mess, to create peace or total anarchy. I don’t know which.

The fact is: Someone is lying here. None of
us are stupid enough to believe that this is some huge misunderstanding. At some point, a lie was fabricated, information is being blatantly hidden, but there is definitely a liar, there is definitely information being omitted, but the my point is:

I don't care.

posted November 14, 2007 10:03 PM         

I do not care whether I am a pawn to someone’s game. I do not care whether Mirandee and Solane are using my name “ill”, nor do I care if fayte.m is using me for her own “ill” designs. Everyone involved in this should know that I know that this has nothing to do with me, and that Unmoved is being used as a facade for a bigger problem, a problem which I am not privy to.

Another thing all of you should be aware of is that, I know more than you think. So yes, as Lialei (who I have never spoken to) mentioned: words are not things I hold dear. Words are unreliable to me. Although this is cyber world, I have my own ways of assessing things.

I know what I know. And, what I know is my business. (in case someone desires to ask me what it is that I know)

I treat everyone here with dignity. Dignity being a birth right, not a privilege.

I know, as sure as everyone here knows, what the truth is. It does not need to be spelled out. You only need listen to your hearts and you will hear it. You only need look inside and you shall see clearly. Forget the exchanges that have been made, and just read between the lines.

posted November 14, 2007 10:05 PM         

Solane Star, no one can ever make me a sheep. Ever! So, don’t worry about that bit. I am protected. I hope that we can grow to know each other and be friends, and then you can see first hand how hard it is to herd me.

Mirandee, do not worry about being read incorrectly by me, the truth has a special way of shining forth and I see it. So, let your heart be still. I say this in case you care what I think. All who know you can feel your energy; you do not need to always explain yourself. I also hope that we can grow to be friends in time.

Fayte.m, I am not upset, nor surprised by any of this, not by the words you have said, or the direction this has taken. I am your friend, as I was yesterday and the day before.

posted November 14, 2007 10:05 PM         

Now, all you three (or whoever is involved) are in denial. You do want to be friends again or at least be sincerely civil to each other. And this “I don’t care attitude” of yours is your pride speaking. One of you has to grow balls to start the healing process and apologize or mend things, with a sincere desire to achieve peace. Anger is not a good feeling. Look at you all now. Are any of you having a good time fighting? No. So, plan A did not work, the plan to fight each other. So, now, let’s go to plan B, and make up.

Start with truth, to yourself about yourself. Then truth about yourself to others. Then truth about others to yourself. Then truth about others to others.

Sorry for being long winded.

P.S. AG, you are right about me.

Thanks.

posted November 14, 2007 10:52 PM         

Judge means to make a determination. Was Fayte or was she not stating that she felt that only those who have suffered the most in life are qualified for the award? That is judging in the context of making a determination. So I used the word "judge" in that context because of her opinion.

When I stated taking it to a higher level I meant the oneness of suffering in all of humanity because we are all one and not one of us does not suffer in life. I was giving my reason for my opinion that the award should not be determined for only a few. I do feel that oneness is a higher level. I can't speak for others here. Maybe some people don't feel that is a higher level. But it's a real stretch of the imagination to say that when I said it is taking it to a higher level in applying the belief of oneness I was diminishing Fayte's award or her in some way.

You will admit that what we say and how others perceive the written word are not always the same won't you? Your perception could even be based on Fayte's telling you and others what my words meant according to her own perception. She implanted the thought and that is exactly what our subtle, manipulative society does to brainwash us all in commericals and in what the government and media project to us.

I know you are just attempting to be fair to Fayte, AG. You are a fair man.

I was giving my opinion after Fayte gave her opinion. Now, I know that you are not suggesting that at LL when one person gives an opinion and their thoughts that others do not have the right to also express their opinions and thoughts. I also know that you wouldn't suggest that just because Fayte perceives everything I say and do as being a personal attack on her I should just remain silent with my thoughts and not speak them or that I cannot disagree with Fayte's opinions and thoughts. She claims that right for herself then she should respect the right of others to do the same.

Fayte has accused me a thread of making it hard for her to post her opinions and disagree with me because I take it as an attack on me. Which was never the case and I assured her then that unless she addresses me personally I do not take what she says as pertaining to me. Now she is doing to me regarding the awards thread the very thing she accused me of doing to her. She took my giving my opinions and thoughts in response to hers as a personal attack on her and planted that notion in a lot of people's heads on that thread about both myself and Star.

I spoke of how I feel about the Phoenix and what it represents. I didn't say she couldn't give out the award in her way. She came back and called me "Madam Judge" and did accuse me of that. Again planting a seed of thought for others on the thread.

AG, you did not stipulate that others could not use the same award someone else had given out. Star didn't know there were patents on all the awards. Neither did I in fact. Fayte made the original judgment on that thread right after Star gave that award to me when she judged it " should not be given to people willy nilly but only those who deserved it." That could also be interpreted to mean that Fayte was saying that I did not deserve the award and judging that Star was handing it out "willy nilly." So if Star responded to that as she did it was due to Fayte's words and what could also be perceived as judging who should give out the award and to whom.

Are you suggesting that it is okay for Fayte to make judgments and give her thoughts and opinions regarding the Phoenix and what it represents but not okay for others to do so?

posted November 14, 2007 10:57 PM         

Reason to lie: To discredit Mirandee and Solane Star. To get herself painted well and to strengthen her campaign to prove her point that the two mentioned above are not as good as they seem.

Theory 4: Mirandee and Solane Star are truthful. They have nothing against me.

The fact is: Someone is lying here. None of
us are stupid enough to believe that this is some huge misunderstanding. At some point, a lie was fabricated, information is being blatantly hidden, but there is definitely a liar, there is definitely information being omitted, but the my point is:
--------------------------------------------

Mirandee has told me the same thing that was said to you also, as Quoted above:
--------------------------------------------
The same goes for whether a person has "ill" feelings towards me, as fayte.m says Mirandee and Solane Star have towards me.
--------------------------------------------

I've been told that I'm not to be trusted also!!! This was said by Fayte to Mirandee as a warning to her, to be aware of me. So in other words, I'm to take and see this as what????? I'm not Trustworthy in Fayte's Eyes??? If Fayte can't see this as a lie and continues to slander ones character, because one can't control their own hurt and anger, because of this, this is why I'm not befriending someone that acts and reacts like this, I've seen it at it's fulliest and it's not very pretty, I wouldn't want someone like this in my corner and someone that I would like as my friend. Thats not a True Friend of the Heart to Me and I only befriend others with the Same. Would much rather stay clear.

Your right about this going on way to long and that it still keeps repeating it's s-ELF!!!

Please ask yours-ELF why Fayte Might of said this Quote of your's in the first place and you may find your answers there????

Unmoved Quote:
--------------------------------------------
The same goes for whether a person has "ill" feelings towards me, as fayte.m says Mirandee and Solane Star have towards me.
--------------------------------------------

What do you think????? I think you already really know your answer, It lays within you!!!

Fayte is beyond me?????? Go Figure????

posted November 14, 2007 11:36 PM         

Piece taken from Soul Journey

posted November 15, 2007 01:07 AM         

You did state that as a fact which is something that you really can't know. I for one am not in denial and it is resolved as far as I am concerned. How do you like them apples?

Besides that there are some things in life that cannot resolved so it is incorrect to assume that all things can be resolved just because we want all things sorted out in neat and tidy order in our minds. To hold the thought that all things can be resolved often results in us beating dead horses or banging our heads against brick walls. We can't move on in life if we feel all things can and must be resolved according to our own wishes. We can't let go of the past and we remain frozen there. We cannot forgive.

Things like this is the reason that I wanted to work things out in private and not on the boards of LL. It is also something that I have stated I attempted more than once to do in private. It takes the willingness of all parties to resolve a conflict. If one person is unwilling it cannot be resolved. However it is resolved in my mind. I made my decision to end the friendship based on what I felt was best for my own well being. It is I alone who judge what is best for my own well being.

You stated in your post that you did not want to know the facts because it was none of your business, Unmoved. Well if you don't know the facts how can you then pass broad judgments that we are all in denial and make the assumptions you have made?

I'm sorry and I don't mean to be rude, but my life and the decisons and choices I make regarding relationships in my life and how I live my life is not up for discussion on the boards of LL. It is not up for anyone to judge what I should do in my own journey.

If you don't know the facts or even want to know them then you can't possibly be the one who can come up with the solution. You would have to be aware of all details of the problem in order to come up with a solution.

Again, I'm sorry, but this part of your post sounds a bit controlling and judgmental on your part to me when you don't even know any of us involved but Fayte:

quote:

---

Now, all you three (or whoever is involved) are in denial. You do want to be friends again or at least be sincerely civil to each other. And this “I don’t care attitude” of yours is your pride speaking. One of you has to grow balls to start the healing process and apologize or mend things, with a sincere desire to achieve peace. Anger is not a good feeling. Look at you all now. Are any of you having a good time fighting? No. So, plan A did not work, the plan to fight each other. So, now, let’s go to plan B, and make up.

---

I know it sounds harsh but I don't recall appointing you mediator here, Unmoved. And your words do sound a bit controlling.

1. Anger is a normal human feeling. Any normal human feeling is good by nature. There is no human feeling that is not good as well as healthy. Anger serves a purpose or we wouldn't have that emotion from birth would we? The only thing is knowing how to express anger in positive ways which most people have not learned. Also it is doing your own introspection to determine what the anger is the result of if we don't know why we feel angry. In this case I know.

2. Who says we have an " I don't care attitude?" That's just your assumption.

3. I have stated repeatedly that both myself and Lialei have attempted to mend things and work things out. Are you even reading the posts of those involved before speaking?

4. I make up my own plans for my life. What if I want plan C? or even plan D? Would I need your approval first or anyone else's approval for that matter if I chose either of those plans instead of your A and B ?

5. I am a woman. I have no wish to "grow balls."

6. Let's live and let others live and make their own choices, decisions and plans instead of dictating to them what to do.

Sorry, but I really felt that was very controlling on your part and you should have quit while you ahead in part 1 of your post.

That was more direct honesty. Something you will learn in time that I am very prone to, Unmoved.

I take it that your intentions here were good and you mean well. But I honesty did not care for the way you presented the last part of your post. I am 61 years old. I don't need a mommy. I also know myself a lot better than you do. As does Lialei, Star and Fayte.

I don't mind hearing your thoughts as in much of your post. But I am just not in the mood at this moment for the last part. If I were I might have said it better. But then again I have mercury in aries so maybe not.

quote:

---

I am not one to beat about the bush, and since in this instance I desire to be clear, I shall be somewhat abrupt, maybe a little insensitive but definitely straight-forward.

---

posted November 15, 2007 01:24 AM         

quote:

---

The same goes for whether a person has "ill" feelings towards me, as fayte.m says Mirandee and Solane Star have towards me.

---

posted November 15, 2007 01:34 AM         

The "ill" feelings are what I gathered from this statement below:

quote:

---

You took great offense to my making friends with Unmoved as did your daughter (who admitted it)...

---

I did not claim anywhere that you did anything, as a fact.

Actually it is Lisa, not Lorna, whoever Lisa is. I have just remembered that fun post of yours with naming things that begin with one's first letter of one's name, and Solane Stars' name is Lorna.

Sorry Solane Star. I thought you were Lisa...

posted November 15, 2007 02:21 AM         

First the disclaimers:

I don't really know Fayte, Mirandee or Solane Star. I have had a bit of a conversation back and forth with Fayte (mostly about pics posted on the site) and an even smaller bit of a conversation with Mirandee on the awards thread (and in another thread, too, I think.)

Now...I'm a lawyer and one of the first things you learn about handling yourself in court is that you have to make a record. (You know, those nice people with the funny machines writing everything down for posterity?) Now, it seems to me that the boards, being the written word, serve as a sort of record of the interactions here at LL.

Sooooo...I went back through the ENTIRE awards thread, using 20/20 hindsight with regard to how it completely deteriorated (and my newly-gained knowledge that there appears to be some sort of dispute going on, with Fayte on one side, Solane Star/Mirandee on the other, and possibly Unmoved dragged into the middle).

My findings:

Everything seemed fine...Mirandee and Fayte even gave some awards to each other which, even knowing what I know now, seemed genuine and not snide in anyway.

Then, Solane Star gave what now appears to be a smart a$$ award to Fayte, who in turn expressed some doubt about its sincerity...but it seemed to get swept under the rug.

Next, Fayte gave some people the Golden Phoenix Award (I don't believe she gave a full description of it at that time.)

Solane Star then gave Mirandee the Phoenix Award.

NAM asked what the Phoenix award was about and Fayte listed what SHE believed to be the criteria for the Golden Phoenix Award she had previously mentioned.

Then, Solane Star started saying everyone deserved the Phoenix Award, Mirandee seemed to start backing her up, Fayte said she didn't see it that way, HSC was in there somewhere saying maybe no one really knows who is a phoenix...yadda, yadda, yadda...

We all know what happened then...the thread degenerated to name calling and the airing of personal issues.

I can't believe that people are actually disputing what went on in this thread when it is there for all to see...and it doesn't appear there was any "creative editing", based on the flow of the conversations.

My OPINION:

Fayte talked about the Golden Phoenix Award first. She then went on to explain what it meant TO HER...and seeing as she came up with the original concept of the award, she has the right to define the award. She even went on to say she distinguished it from the Phoenix award given by Solane Star to Mirandee.

Solane Star, on the other hand, seems to have given out a similar award as sort of an "in your face" gesture to Fayte. Then, she started telling Fayte that her criteria for the award was wrong. I can only interpret these actions, as well as the snide award she previously gave Fayte, as a deliberate bid to start trouble.

Apparently, Mirandee has a close relationship with Solane Star outside of LL (I have no idea what), and so Mirandee felt compelled to enter the mix on the side of Solane Star.

And...Ta dah! Here we are! Listen, I came to this site to learn about astrology and maybe have some nice conversations with some nice people. I don't know what your issues are with each other and, quite frankly, I don't give a rat's a$$! What I do know is this:

I think all three of you owe AG (and maybe even all of LL) an apology for what you did in his thread. Personally, I think Solane Star started the trouble, but none of you have clean hands. I will, however, give props to Fayte for moving this off the awards thread.

There...now that I've probably destroyed any future relations with you three...I'm done.

Peace out.

posted November 15, 2007 03:17 AM         

Yes, I can see it written and interpretted both ways.

No, no one has exclusive rights to bestowing a particular type of award.

Obviously there is a difference in the interpretation of the award where you believe it essentially belongs to everyone and Fayte would rather hers belong to some special people she feels for. You seem to interpret her making it special for a few as something that is divisive, whereas she interprets her own award as being one of her showing solidarity with her awardees. Who's Oneness is better makes it into a competition of ideas. Oneness with everyone is good, and oneness with those perceived as more road weary is also good.

It's quite easy to see parts of your post at the bottom of Page 9 as offensive. It's not a matter of whether people can perceive the words in different ways. It is a matter of the words conferring in specific terms a stark contrast from the original creator's idea. How the creator of that award could not take offense is something I haven't figured out. That's the problem.

In your song thread it was easy to see why offense was taken from Fayte's post. In my thread it's easy to see why offense was taken at your post. Both of you claim in your defense that you meant something different, and are just being misunderstood.

I don't know the answer, but I bet it would be something about not always highlighting your differences of opinion.

posted November 15, 2007 08:01 AM         

px. ir tookk me ober 4o min tppget ths awaed riigt. byt i wantde tp thnllk yuo.
i dpnot agrers with it allbyt yuo digd great.
byt byee i shuld i br rsting npw.

posted November 15, 2007 10:09 AM         

I am so sick of the passive/aggressive ploys used by fayte

I usually just ignore her posts because she doesn't rate on my radar and because her signature alone is usually longer than my posts.

But I have witnessed first hand her manipulation with editing her posts to make others who are responding,
look like complete idiots. not fair at all.

I am now finding out that she is responsible with her rancid attacks for one of our best knowflakes departure. not nice and not fair.

The answer to your post is Theory #1
you are being used unmoved in fayte's attempt to discredit Mirandee and Solane.
These girls don't talk about you, nor do they have anything against you in fact I know Mirandee welcomes you with open arms as she does with all new knowflakes.

The best way to determine the truth is to go back on faytes post and see for yourself.
She does delete and edit but there are plenty of smart knowflakes here who copy and paste her posts before she edits them.
when she gets around to attacking you I suggest you copy and paste too.

I find your honesty and common sense refreshing.

here's wishing you love and light
and welcome to Lindaland

posted November 15, 2007 10:09 AM         

I feel I should explain a little about what I meant by things being more sacred to me.
I don't believe I expressed myself well. (I was late for work and posted in a rush)

I consider the friendship Fayte and I shared sacred. It has a special place in my heart, and I'll never forget all the beautiful things she has given to me. I will always love her and hold onto a beautiful nostgalia, even if we're apart for reasons that need to be in this life.
So...
I vow that no matter how much I am provoked, no matter how badly my character is slandered, no matter much things are distorted, out of respect for that, I will hold that pure, beautiful aspect that was--- be conscious and delicate of keeping it private and pristine.

I could say things to better myself before you all. There are things I've kept to myself and will continue to.

I know probably many people think I'm evasive, weak....that I cannot handle conflict.
That's not what this is about. What people see of me, cannot be my prime concern here. It's not deemed as highly inside of me, as keeping things that are still possible to be Pure in my heart.

I look at the world and most things seem backward to me here. What most often is considered weak here is strength to me.
Every conflict, is a spiritual challenge...to defy all temptation to disregard integrity, keeping in focus the things that beyond pressing circumstance and are more meaningful than superficial things.

You feel in the middle. I understand how you feel. When I see my Mom and Solane be misrepresented, it's distressing to me. I feel in a position where if I say anything in their defense, it will only cause further strife and divisions. And I'm never comfortable with being thought a 'group' either. I have my own Sagittarian issues about posting along side my mom here which I struggle a bit with. (she makes it easier than most Mom's would...but hmmm...Saggies, please help me explain. lol) But in saying nothing in defense of Solane and Mirandee, to them it might appear I don't care,
which isn't true.
To defend would also make it appear that I don't care about Fayte, which isn't true.

I see the unfolding of things and foresee each outcome as it happens. There is no other way for it to happen...I watch it unfold before my eyes feeling helplessness to stop it.

I understand all the whys, which makes it harder not to say, and also harder to say anything.

I don't know what to do, beyond keeping mindful and trying to respect and understand everyone's place.

And also is the futher sadness that although I have kept Fayte in mind, she hasn't me.
I've been exploited for a cause again.

Each time serves to send me further away. Out of protection, for I don't feel safe. Every time there is a potential of hope, and things are distorted publicly here, it shatters a bit more that innocence that was healing and hoping for things to be different. The only thing that will is mutual empathy, consideration, humility and self-honesty. Of course, I'd always hope for that. But I'm also conscious that sometimes there are times of stagnation when things are not ready and to press is not going to help.

I wouldn't have admitted to a thought I had never entertained about you. My humility has been distorted into something ugly beyond recognition of what really was. Beyond that, proving/defending what kind of person I am, I won't do. Exposing privacies that would benefit me, I won't, not for any reason. Because they might hurt and humiliate someone I still care about. AT what cost do we sacrifice things?

I wish she would stop hurting me here. I don't believe she means to intentionally. I don't know what to believe sometimes....it saddens me greatly what lengths are so easily leapt. All that is so quick to be forgotten and disregarded.

AG, you are an angel for caring, for trying.
I know it isn't easy. You are loved, admired and appreciated by all of us.

Fayte,
if you are having an episode, yes do rest.
It was never the case that anyone harrassed you while you were ill. You know that.
I'll try not to begin to believe this is an attempt to stress that or put others in a repressive awkward position not to say anything, for fear it could be used in that way. Or that their caring for your welfare, believing it's possible you might be ill, might be further disregarded and contorted into something different anyway in time. I'll try to believe in your sincerity, regardless of everything I've seen.
Do rest peacefully.
It would probably be for the best to rest and contemplate.