posted January 06, 2008 04:29 PM         

relative truth:
The apparent truth as perceived as real by the dualistic mind.

posted January 06, 2008 05:57 PM         

This is so higher-grade! Lemme think about it and come back to you... if, and only if, i can even answer such.

But before I go:

Is RELATIVE truth not another word for "perspective", and is ABSOLUTE truth not another word for the "Divine Dichotomy" where dichotomous parts exist harmoniously without their 'apparent' contradicting counter-parts being a contradiction?

Just a question.

I wonder if I can ever know (through experience) anything absolute/whole because I still live in a relative realm, but in my mind... there are absolutes, but this world can not support them, justify them, or express them.

All I can say is:

If you know love, you know truth. And just like love, truth can be expressed in many ways. Some are considered "wrong" or "bad" and some are considered "good" etc.

I think that once you can not criticize anything or praise anything, because you understand that these are the same thing, like two equal vectors traveling in opposing directions; then you would have known absolute truth.

Just as some say that everything is an extension of God, everything, even lies are an extension of truth too.

What I mean is: I care not to be lied to, but a liar is being true when s/he lies because that is true to his/her nature. So, is a liar being untruthful for lying, or being true to the self?

This topic confuses me because there are many levels to respond from.

Are we speaking of a truth that benefits all or the self?

Are we speaking of truth from a personal level or from the collective?

Are we speaking of truth from a philosophical angle or a moral angle?

So, in order to not damage my brain, I will leave it here.

For me, truth is everything, and nothing. Truth is love. Truth is what I know and what i am still to know. Truth is God. Truth is both the light and the darkness. Truth is my salvation and my prison.

And, that is my truth, not yours so i suppose this falls under Relative truth??

posted January 06, 2008 09:26 PM         

Perhaps "infinite love is the only truth- everything else is illusion"?

(Just wondering).

posted January 06, 2008 10:36 PM         

Absolute truth
Cheating is bad and would hurt someone's feelings.

Relative truth
Even know cheating is bad and will hurt his/her feelings, as long they don't know I'll be ok, besides that I only slipped this one time, and that otehr one, but I'll be ok in the future.... and I swear I love him/her but ...I don't know, sometimes things go cold.... but I do love him/her...

How is that???????

posted January 06, 2008 10:49 PM         

but isn;t cheating also a perspective thing. Not everyone is hurt when their partners go elsewhere. People in open relationships are fine with "cheating"... but then are extra marital relations cheating when they are allowed and done in the open?

Just asking. I dunno either.

I mean... cheating can be bad, but can be just an act that hurts no one.

maybe we can delve deeper from the cheating aspect and say, hurting another is bad?

posted January 07, 2008 01:27 AM         

My goodness. That was inspired and you soared to the heights on that first post, girl.

quote:

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Is RELATIVE truth not another word for "perspective", and is ABSOLUTE truth not another word for the "Divine Dichotomy" where dichotomous parts exist harmoniously without their 'apparent' contradicting counter-parts being a contradiction?

Just a question.

I wonder if I can ever know (through experience) anything absolute/whole because I still live in a relative realm, but in my mind... there are absolutes, but this world can not support them, justify them, or express them.

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Just a question? It was THE question.

Exactly what I feel. In my mind there are also absolutes that I know the world cannot support or justify or that I could even adequately express. Yet I know in my soul they are absolutes. Absolutes that I cannot explain with words and that would most likely not be justified by the world but I don't feel they have to be justified by the world for me to know they are absoulutes.

quote:

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Is RELATIVE truth not another word for "perspective", and is ABSOLUTE truth not another word for the "Divine Dichotomy" where dichotomous parts exist harmoniously without their 'apparent' contradicting counter-parts being a contradiction?

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I personally think relative truth is another way of defining "perspective" or how we might see something at any given time in our life. I think relative truths can change on further investigation and knowledge and even experience. The most often do change.

Absolute truths never change and always, remain consistent and harmonious with what may appear to be contradictions. "Divine Dichotomy" I like that phrase.

posted January 07, 2008 09:19 AM         

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NAM
but isn;t cheating also a perspective thing. Not everyone is hurt when their partners go elsewhere. People in open relationships are fine with "cheating"... but then are extra marital relations cheating when they are allowed and done in the open?

Just asking. I dunno either.

I mean... cheating can be bad, but can be just an act that hurts no one.

maybe we can delve deeper from the cheating aspect and say, hurting another is bad?

I dunno.

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How can cheating not be bad when you have to hide it ????
If it is an open relationship then it is not cheating.
For example swingers do not cheat, they have an open relationship to were this is their life style.

You see what I am saying here?
I was NOT talking about an open relationship I was talking about a dirty person that needs to have a thrill on the side because his/her partner is not enough for him/her in bed but when he/she goes back to this person then he/she promise "forever love" ....until he/she finds another cheap thrill and it starts all over again... if this partner would know about it he/she would be devastated.

Am I clear now?

posted January 07, 2008 09:27 AM         

quote:

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I personally think relative truth is another way of defining "perspective" or how we might see something at any given time in our life. I think relative truths can change on further investigation and knowledge and even experience. The most often do change.

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Absolutely

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~
What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~

posted January 07, 2008 10:21 AM         

I did not mean to offend. I was just looking for clarity to the cheating thing, that's all. Because, cheating, like everything else is different for everyone, so I just desired to understand your perspective. And now I do. Thank you.

With regards to cheating, I was inquiring on this level:

Betrayal is bad, but there is a worser form of betrayal and that is betrayal of self.

I have not cheated yet. (a big yet) ever in my life but... I have been cheated on and hurt by it intensely. And, the question I asked myself was whether i was being fair to be angry because what if he was a cheater just being himself, and what if the only reason I am hurt is because our perspectives are in conflict? I am still asking that question today.

Another question I asked was whether it was unfair of me to not allow him to change his mind on what he desired.

The thing is: commitment is something one makes daily, or every moment of ones life, and it is a choice one makes over and over to be deemed a committed person.

So, I wondered if I was being blind by not realising that people change and their choices change, and sometimes casualties occur with a mind change. Sometimes.

So, all the men who have cheated on me, were they being evil, or were they just exercising their right to change their minds, an exercise which hurt me? Was I confusing possessiveness for love? Or did I really have the right to deem him an awful person and... my conclusion was this: If a person evolves into something that no longer synchronizes with my values, then it is my call whether I accept the change or leave.

I hope you understand now where my inquiry was coming from. It was not to condone nor condemn cheating... it was to observe it for what it might be, to understand it better and just play around with ideas.

Juniperp

Mirandee. I am glad someone understood that because when I wrote that I was just spiraling.

posted January 07, 2008 11:39 AM         

quote:

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So, all the men who have cheated on me, were they being evil, or were they just exercising their right to change their minds, an exercise which hurt me? Was I confusing possessiveness for love? Or did I really have the right to deem him an awful person and... my conclusion was this: If a person evolves into something that no longer synchronizes with my values, then it is my call whether I accept the change or leave.

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My thoughts on this is that, yes, if he has the need to change his mind he needs to tell you that first before he goes looking somewhere else.
I was married for 15 years to a guy that had many faults but never cheated on me, if there was something sacred this was it; also I was separated and still fighting a divorce he didn't want to give me and I still remain faithful to the "license paper of marriage" just because I can't deal with the fact that someone would accuse me of not doing right.
With me is just a simple issue of being right or wrong, black and white, even know we live in a gray society I still respect the fact that if I give my word on something I will remain true to it to the end.

Now, if he would have asked me if I wanted to experiment with otehr men and even know I was not doing it, I would have totally said "yes" just because that is the kind of person I am ... truth comes first in my book, how else am I going to know myself?
specially with the one person I share my life! this is suppose to be my partner in crime, not someone I am lying to.

posted January 07, 2008 11:43 AM         

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No prob NAM, I understand your emotions more than you know. {{{hugs}}}

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posted January 07, 2008 12:29 PM         

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Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the Gods.

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God does not play dice with the universe.

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The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious; It is the source of all true art and science.

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posted January 07, 2008 01:29 PM         

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why do people lie about very small things,just tell what people want to hear instead of the truth,make up stuff as they talk,i can't understand.shirley
Posted by shirley38
on 1/3/08 7:29 PM

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http://www.lifescript.com/channels/well_being/News_Bites/liars_have_different_brains.a sp
http://www.lifescript.com/channels/well_being/Meditations_Motivat ions/understanding_people_who_lie.asp?page=1 http://www.lifescript.com/channels/well_being/Meditations_Motivat ions/understanding_people_who_lie.asp?page=2 http://www.lifescript.com/channels/well_being/Meditations_Motivat ions/understanding_people_who_lie.asp?page=3 http://www.lifescript.com/channels/well_being/Meditations_Motivat ions/understanding_people_who_lie.asp?page=4 http://www.lifescript.com/channels/well_being/Meditations_Motivat ions/understanding_people_who_lie.asp?page=5 http://www.lifescript.com/channels/well_being/Meditations_Motivat ions/understanding_people_who_lie.asp?page=6 http://www.lifescript.com/channels/well_being/Meditations_Motivat ions/understanding_people_who_lie.asp?page=7

posted January 07, 2008 02:48 PM         

Often we do not like to associate with people who lie, but in fact, we all lie from time to time. Lies take on all shapes and forms, from omission of details to flat-out falsehoods. It's almost reasonable to say that lying is instinctive because even young children lie without realizing it. No matter how common it is to lie, it is still considered impolite and bad behavior. Being lied to can be frustrating and it often breaks the bond of trust between two people, causing problems in the relationship. Knowing the reasons why people lie, however, can shed some light on the problem and help us understand the people who lie. Let’s take a look at some of the common reasons why people lie.

Self-Defense
Many people lie because they want to protect themselves from an unpleasant situation or conflict. Think of young children who lie; they lie to make sure that they don't get into trouble. Children lie to avoid unpleasant consequences or punishment. Adults do the same.

Many people lie because they know they've done something that will anger the other person. A woman might lie about the cost of the shoes she purchased and a man might lie about which buddy he was going to hang out with. These lies are strictly to escape punishment or to avoid a fight. The person may not have done anything wrong, but would prefer not to have to justify, explain or face an irate spouse.

To Spare Feelings
Some people who lie often do so with good intentions. We call these "white lies", or lies that occur when the person wants to avoid causing someone else pain.
http://www.lifescript.com/channels/well_being/Meditations_Motivat ions/understanding_people_who_lie.asp?page=1

posted January 07, 2008 02:51 PM         

A husband may lie to spare his wife's feelings, or a father may lie to avoid his child's tears. One example of a common white lie is, "Yes, dear, that dress looks great on you."

To some, a white lie is nothing more than a reason or excuse rather than an untruth. The ethical philosophy behind telling a white lie is debated the world over by theologians and philosophers. Each individual must decide if telling a white lie is justified. If keeping someone from being hurt unduly means omitting the truth and no damage comes from the fib, then most people not only feel it is justified, but necessary.

To Protect Feelings
While some people who lie want to protect the feelings of others and spare someone else pain or hurt, many people lie to protect their own feelings, self-esteem, self-confidence, or other personal emotion. A woman who says, "I didn't want that job anyway," when she really did, is lying to protect herself. A child who yells out, "I hate you!" may be trying to protect himself from feeling hurt or to reject others before he is rejected.

To Keep a Secret
When thinking of lies that are concocted to keep a secret, one must only think of birthdays and Christmas.

Plenty of people lie about where they went or what they bought, with the good intention of maintaining an aspect of surprise. Most of the time, the lies are obvious. A teenager may know that her mother went out, but something about her mother’s excuse fosters suspicion. When the truth comes out and the teen receives a nice gift for a special occasion, the lie is forgiven and forgotten.
http://www.lifescript.com/channels/well_being/Meditations_Motivat ions/understanding_people_who_lie.asp?page=2

Thanks Again!!!!

posted January 07, 2008 04:05 PM         

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we all lie from time to time. Lies take on all shapes and forms, from omission of details to flat-out falsehoods

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posted January 09, 2008 07:26 PM         

Some people may just say they feel good because they do not want to tell others all their medical problems and get into a discussion about their health. So it may be in that case just a way of avoiding revealing something that the person does not care to discuss.

In that case I do not see it as a lie at all either and outright lie or a white lie. I see it as the person protecting their right to privacy which everyone has the right to do.

Actually in many ( not all ) cases people ask you how you how are doing or how you are feeling just as another way of a greeting and beginning a conversation. Normally the answer when asked that is " I am fine, how are you?" It is just a social greeting. Not lies on either person's part. No one really expects a long drawn out detailed account of all the medical problems the other may have at that time.

It depends on the situation and the circumstances and how well you know the other person doesn't it? If a very good friend asks you how you are doing you are more apt to tell them that you aren't feeling well than you are just a co-worker or an acquaintance. It is not intentional lying. It is dependent on who the person feels comfortable sharing health information with and who they would prefer not to discuss it with.

When it comes to lying, as is the case of all sins or wrong doings, intention is everything. A person who does not wish to discuss their health with others is not lying. Their intention is not to deceive or do any harm at all. Their intention is merely to avoid talking about something they do not wish to talk about. How is that a lie? Yes, they could be abrupt and say something like, " I do not wish to discuss my health, thank you." But the other person in that case might have their feelings hurt or in some way feel uncomfortable having not meant any harm on their part by asking the person how they are doing or feeling.

Concern for the feelings of someone else is an act of love. How can any act of love with regard for another person be wrong?

When to tell the complete truth and when not to do so is a judgment call.

It's the same as if you run into someone that you know but aren't particularly close to and they greet you with, " How's it going?" Then you have the option of replying in a way that is comfortable for both of you. You could say, " Pretty good, how about you?" or You could say," Things are lousy and my life is a mess and give all the reasons why your life is lousy. Depends on how comfortable you are with the person knowing all about your life. A judgment call.

I have been friends with people for long periods of time who I later find out something about which they never told me. Do I see that as being dishonest on their part? No. I see it as they may have told the other person this because they felt more comfortable revealing something that intimate about their lives to than they did me. I see it as their choice to tell who what they wish to tell them and those they don't wish to know to withhold that information from. That could be seen as being dishonest by omission or lying by omission of all the facts. Or it could be seen as a personal choice by the person who they wish to reveal private matters to and who they don't and that it is their right to make that judgment call.

Life is not black and white. It is not always either the truth or a lie or being dishonest or honest. It not an either or type thing because even honesty has grey areas where circumstances and our concern for the feelings of others based on love may outweigh what we honestly think or feel at any given time. Do I really want to tell the truth of how I feel or what I think if I know it will hurt someone else? Or do I instead either avoid saying anything ( omission) or perhaps just say something nice instead. Those are some of the things that we have to weigh in our mind and conscience and make a judgment call based on the situation.

posted January 09, 2008 08:36 PM         

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It's the same as if you run into someone that you know but aren't particularly close to and they greet you with, " How's it going?" Then you have the option of replying in a way that is comfortable for both of you. You could say, " Pretty good, how about you?" or You could say," Things are lousy and my life is a mess and give all the reasons why your life is lousy. Depends on how comfortable you are with the person knowing all about your life. A judgment call.

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