posted January 11, 2008 08:02 PM         

However What qualifies as truth or untruth seems to be not a universal concept.
And segues from philosophical esoteric "truths" of a personal nature are being mixed in with discussion on lying. lies and liars.
That was not my intention on that thread to delve into the issue of lying etcetera. http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/009493.html
However since it segued off in that direction at times.....it must be a popular subject.

Sooooooooo.............

To keep it simple......
This thread is to be about.........

1.What is a lie?
2.When is a person a liar?
3.Is telling your child about the Easter Bunny etcetera, a lie?
4.under what conditions is lying a positive thing? ie; justified.
5.Can you be bought(like a million dollars)to bear false witness knowing it will totally ruin another or cause their death, someone you do not know.
6.Do you feel guilty when you lie?

posted January 11, 2008 08:24 PM         

2. When someone says something which, to their knowledge, is not true.

3. Yes, it is a lie, but I can't say if such a lie is wrong....it's indulging them in fantasy- is this wrong? I can't really say. After all, aren't we the dream-makers; gods in amnesia?

4. It depends on the situation. You have to listen to your heart. Lying may be necessary, for example- in extreme circumstances, to protect someone from being killed, etc (which is one placing their will over another, therefore lying is justified in such a case).

5. No. Certainly not. Money is transient; love is infinite.

posted January 11, 2008 09:40 PM         

Knowingly leading a person to an erroneous version of events (when contrasted to the version of events you *believe* in your mind to be true and accurate) or alternatively, - leading them to a misguided view of the situation/problem/issue at hand (again, misguided – in comparison to what you *intrinsically* believe to be the truth of the matter) – through your behavior, actions, words or by the omission of certain actions/words.

That's the best I could come up with so far lol

2.When is a person a liar?

When they have knowingly and intentionally through their behavior, actions or words (or through the omission of any of the latter) acted deceptively and omitted a truth that they believed/held to be accurate/correct.

3.Is telling your child about the Easter Bunny etcetera, a lie?

Yes, of course it is- unless you actually believe that it is true.. in which case you wouldn't be withholding information or stating false information (info. which you know to be inaccurate)

4.under what conditions is lying a positive thing? ie; justified.

I believe lying is justified when:

1. The liar does not have an intention to cause harm to another human being or other entity – either psychologically, physically or spiritually through the deception/lies he/she manufactures..

and..

2. The aftermath of this lie(s) proves to be (as assumed by the liar) - harmless.

disclaimer this isn't all inclusive by any means. It's just the best that I could conjure up at the moment. I'm sure someone could come up with an example that fits no 1. and 2. - and the lie may still appear unjustified/wrong, regardless.

5.Can you be bought(like a million dollars)to bear false witness knowing it will totally ruin another or cause their death, someone you do not know.

There's a better chance of hell freezing over than me doing this for any amount of money.

6.Do you feel guilty when you lie?

posted January 11, 2008 11:30 PM         

quote:

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So one must learn to see and KNOW the actual truth not a belief that is only true in their created reality, just in their mind, and not in actuality.
But that requires not deluding, or brainwashing of self...ie; the biggest lie, lying to self!
If one lies to self, they will lie to others and think they are being honest and truthful.
KNOWING AND BELIEVING ARE NOT THE SAME THING.

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Exactly!

That is why it is first and foremost so very important to be 100% honest and truthful with yourself. Then, and only then, will you always be 100% honest and truthful with others. It is the only way we can be.

As for the answers to the questions, I can only echo what both LTT and Coral Frequency said.

A lie is something that a person knows not to be true and speaks it anyway.

A liar would be someone who does that.

posted January 11, 2008 11:46 PM         

quote:

---

So one must learn to see and KNOW the actual truth not a belief that is only true in their created reality, just in their mind, and not in actuality.
But that requires not deluding, or brainwashing of self...ie; the biggest lie, lying to self!
If one lies to self, they will lie to others and think they are being honest and truthful.
KNOWING AND BELIEVING ARE NOT THE SAME THING.

---

quote:

---

Exactly! That is why it is first and foremost so very important to be 100% honest and truthful with yourself. Then, and only then, will you always be 100% honest and truthful with others. It is the only way we can be.

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