posted July 17, 2008 02:05 AM         

i mean, sure an ideal first date for me would be to turn up unexpected and take me on a helicopter flight on top of some remote place for dinner. that's romantic. but when it comes to romance on a personal level - the deepest kind of romance only. the type of romance that is just who the two of you are - nothing else - no fluff - no flowers or fireworks - just two people connected. there is NOTHING more romantic than that. there is nothing more romantic than looking deeply into the eyes of the person that you love and KNOWING with every single part of yourself that they love you too.

that's it. love - pure and simple - unembellished. just two people who love each other.

posted July 17, 2008 02:31 AM         

So there is no internal struggling on your part. You KNOW how you feel. And i'm guessing that you really wouldn't understand or appreciate internal struggling on the other person's part either. You wouldn't see what there is to struggle about. It's a kind of "i'm here, do you want to take me or not?" sort of attitude... right? At least that's what i've gathered.

When i said "light/sweet" i didn't mean fluff. I meant being happy and relaxed and in a state of grace when you're with that person. I meant not-dramatic. I meant not painful. See, you don't see the point of suffering when both of you love each other. It's like i can hear you say "What's there to suffer about? We both love each other, and we both know it, and we're together... so... i don't see the point". That is what i was getting at. You strike me as the kind of individual who wouldn't be pleased to hear your partner express such a mournful soliloquy to you.

posted July 17, 2008 02:58 AM         

i'm very hard to understand, i think. very complex. i don't want the struggle. love should be easy. like any kind of flow - if it's right - it happens - it unfolds naturally. i don't like drama. i'm not a fan in everyday life. i don't need someone to struggle to reveal themselves to me. i don't need the drama of having to draw it out of them. if those feelings are there and we are right - they will just come out because there is the understanding that this is right and safe - even if it has never been that way before. that there is something special here - but without the drama. in essence we are probably seeking the same thing just that we are looking for it in different ways. you want the struggle the drama - whereas i envision it to be without that.

i'm a romantic in a way that says, well, this is it - this is who i am - you're either here or not - i'll deal with it - but if you are here with me then you're here with me 100% because that's what you get from me and nothing else is close enough for me.

i'm very honest and i expect the same from someone. i can tolerate many things - but not lying. it's a deal breaker. i have no place for it.

i don't see the purpose for internal struggle in that way. i mean, you either love someone or you don't. the struggle may be in the being able to do something about it and act upon it. but i never have conflict in myself about my feelings. i know i like someone or something - because i feel it. and where people struggle with the idea of love at first sight - is it true or not. for me - it's, is there any other? a connection is immediate or not at all. that's it. magic exists or it doesn't - you can't build upon that - you can't build upon nothing.

but when you enter a relationship there is ALWAYS baggage - from ex partners, from parents, from life experience - and everyone has their own set of personal fears. and they come with the package. so there is always going to be contentions. there's always some kind of internal struggle within someone. and that's the drama. and yes, we love each other and we'll sort through each others crap together sure. but some stuff - you can't help other people with - no matter how much you love them or want to help them or even take it on for them. sometimes they have to heal themselves and it's painful to watch. and it's painful to not be able to be a part of that healing. it's painful when they aren't prepared to heal or help themselves and it's painful in those moments where you realise that some things just can't be fixed - some things are damaged beyond repair - including parts of people.

i take people as they are. that's my greatest gift that i've been given in this lifetime.

i'm romantic in that i don't need things to show me love - i just need that person to be honest about how they feel and who they are and that's it - because then what i feel and what they are showing me they are feeling is honest. i value honesty - sincerity - integrity. this is it: show me how you feel about me - but show me through the way you look at me or the way you touch me or the way you laugh when i say something funny to you. and what you get is all of me in return - open, honest, straight - my heart is your home.

it's the same thing you want. just in a different way. it's the same thing - wanting someone to reside within you and vice versa - that you are their home and they yours - but i don't need it to come via drama and struggle. it's natural, it's pure - where's the fight. if there are other circumstances like they are not available well, that's just a sign from the universe that it's not right - because everyting in life unfolds naturally and synchroniously so you keep flowing until what is right for you meets up with you - and that includes people.

posted July 17, 2008 04:05 AM         

you know the scene in damage where he tells her how much he wanted to touch her during dinner - do you know if it's on youtube?

posted July 17, 2008 04:49 AM         

these lyrics from the lifehouse song "hanging by a moment" reflect how i feel about love (and the type of person who would attract my attention).

posted July 17, 2008 07:24 AM         

You don't like that scene?! What about the scene where he's dressing her after they just made love? He says things like "I'm jealousy of this sock-because it hugs your entire leg and i cannot... I'm jealousy of your shoes- because they take you away from me..." Oh my... i just... i love it. Love him. Love the movie. I can't help it. I've been bewitched.

Hmm... i think that we both want love, but we want different types of love. We express love differently, and therefore are seeking our partners to express their own love in similar fashions to ours. So, do we want the same feelings, the same relationships? - i think to a certain extent, yes, but not entirely.

The whole struggle thing... yes, i have to admit that i do want that, because in every romantic relationship i have had so far there was a struggle. A lot of it derives from the fact that i tend to only be attractive to older men. I'm just not interested in anyone my own age, or anyone in their 20s even. I can't relate to males who are in that age-frame. There's something missing. We could be friends, but i could never be interested in them as anything more than that. SO, because i know that i fall in love with "older" men, there always IS that struggle. There is that struggle for me to acknowledge that about my self and accept it, and not feel guilty or cheated by it. There is that struggle because in society a relationship such as that is frowned upon, or viewed as unequal (one partner is more in love than the other). And there is a struggle because i the feelings are mutual, that person has to deal with knowing that he cares about someone who's "too young" for him. So, in truth, i just can't escape internal struggle to a certain extent.

Plus, i am an intense person, and if the love isn't passionate, urgent, unapologetic, and reckless... then i'm not interested. That also ties into me liking older men- younger guys are not emotionally connected. They have no idea how to be vulnerable. They have no idea how to break down and let someone in. They have no idea how to break down someone else's barriers and fight to get in. They just... are not my cup of tea.

And you want an honest, equal romance. I don't think i want that. I mean, i want honesty, loyalty and equality (in the sense that there is no sexism, or and sort of discrimination)... but i always like it when there is competition to see who is more in love, or who is more possessive, or who is more romantically jealous. You know? I know, it's weird and it's unhealthy, but that's how i function. To know, or to hear that you are needed and that the thought of you being with someone else makes the person you're in love with physically ill just.. my, it ignites a sense of instant euphoria in me.

I think the basic point here is that i like, no, i need intensity and vulnerability and possessiveness in a romantic relationship. You don't. Nor do you want to. You want equality and honesty and understanding that the two of you are here for the same reason, and that you don't expect there to be any trouble in dealing with the feelings you have for each other. I don't. Don't want that.

Your Venus is in Aries, correct? Yes, so our Venus' square, since mine is in Cancer.

posted July 17, 2008 08:25 AM         

the thing you said about younger men not knowing how to be vulnerable. the thing is that older men have had that experience where they are just tired - as you get older - you get tired of the ******** and the games and as you lose your looks you come to rely on those other parts of yourself for attraction and you connect on a different level - you have to - because physical attraction isn't enough. when you are older and you have lines on your face or you sag a bit or have marks on your body that shows your life experiences you are "forced" to be vulnerable because it is either take me as i am or i'm going to hide from the world and from love forever.

wow - the competition - i can't relate to that at all. i don't like that dynamic. i want a man who is strong - so secure in himself that he senses no competition because he knows his worth - to himself, to me. i'm not competitive. i would never fight for a man - i could never respect someone who was so spineless that they couldn't either have the courage to love me and stand there and do that or to not be able to choose between and someone else. i would not want someone who doesn't want me. if you're there - you're there - 100% - warts and all - i don't care - but you give me ALL of you. nothing else - but everything. i'm not possessive. i'm not jealous. that's freedom - to be who you are and be loved completely as you are. that's what i give - and that's what i want in return.

that euphoria i find it very idealistic. sorry - but those passionate affairs - there's two types - this is how they pan out. 1. you have the fiery passion -where you fight all day and make love all night - not healthy - destructive - exhaustive - someone will always opt out or someone will always be a doormat. 2. you have what you have said - the resistence -and then the passionate all-consuming surrender - and then what - you make love once and the energy has expended - what's left - nothing - because the mystery and the momentum of the intrigue and the dynamic is gone. and what you have healed in that person - they will move on to someone else and this person will have the relationship that you tell yourself should have been yours.

older men. here we have a quandry. i like older men. at the same time i don't think about it. there are two requirements for me that are mandatory - 1. a man must be older than me 2. he must be taller than me. you would like to think that older men have had time to hone their skills and refine themselves. but you know, age gaps are hard to deal with. they really really are. even minor differences like types of music, etc. and there's lots of them. and even the most secure of men will feel threatened when a younger man looks at his woman - no matter how much she does actually love. and sometimes you have to be careful with older men too - that they are not after a trophy to reaffirm their own virility.

i don't like games. that thing to see who is more jealous, possessive, etc. hugely unbalanced. so not for me. i'm very open, very honest about my feelings. i like someone who is the same. no, i really don't like games. i want someone to want me and just me. but no games. when you allow that in a relationship you hand over all of your power to the other person -because you are handing over yourself and losing your very self.

i do need intensity and vulnerability in a relationship. i need complete openness and honesty. but not possessiveness. i want someone who is free to come and go as they please to choose to stay - because there is no other place that they want to be - not based on fear or manipulation. i'm a very secure person - i have tremendous inner strength. so i need someone equally or more strong than me. i like a man to be dominant - physically. i like physically looking up at a man. i don't know why. i just do. you can read as much freud into that as you like - i'm sure there's something highly blatant and sexual about that. i like/need protective men - not because i can't look after myself. but there are certain things that men just provide - and that's one. a very very big one. i'm very animal like. so that just feels very natural - that that's the function of the man - to protect.

posted July 17, 2008 08:30 AM         

yes, my venus is in aries. lol - my everything is in aries! lol! it feels like it sometimes.

venus square venus - in itself would present some challenges i would say. but it also depends on other chart placements too.

plus other life and experience factors abovee anything else.

but as you are talking about a man it would show the type of woman he would be attracted to. as a woman it shows how you love. so how compatable are those two factors? is he what you need him to be? and - are we talking about happily ever after or lets take this to where it can go? what are you looking for with him?

posted July 17, 2008 08:33 AM         

i liked the scene - from end of the affair. i love the scene where they're having sex on the couch and they hear her husband walk in and he covers her mouth with his hand. "i'm jealous of the rain" - great line - he delivered it too dispassionately for me. there is so much desperation in those words - the sense of outpouring and urgency in them - but he didn't say it to her like that - like he meant it from the ache in every part of his being for her. and that's how a line like that deserves to be stated. i love them kissing under the coat like that.

posted July 17, 2008 08:43 AM         

i don't know about the not having any problems dealing with each other's feelings. feelings fluctuate - but you deal with them - either directly where necessary or you just let them resolve themselves. relationships and feelings are cyclic too. there's no constancy. it's not going to be all high passion and intensity all the time. it can't be. it just can't - other factors have to permeate it too. there has to be contact with others and those moments have to have meaning too. you can't be consumed by one person. you lose yourself. and then you resent them - in time. because everything becomes about them. and you will have created that. and you'll resent yourself for that.

posted July 17, 2008 08:52 AM         

in all honesty - there is nothing attractive about ralph fiennes to me. i don't even find him good looking. i can say that with full conviction right now.

in real life - it would come down to energy - and when i think of him - yeah, i feel that there could be a certain dynamic or tension between us - definitely sexual. but, he's not interesting to me.

posted July 17, 2008 09:03 AM         

if you haven't seen "the heart of me" with paul bettany and helen bonham-carter - really really - do so.

oh - and as i said yesterday - it can be one word that gets my attention - the way something is said - in this case two words. when his wife awakens and finds him not in the bed next to her and he walks out of the bathroom - listen to the way he says "morning darling". oh, major swoon. it's on youtube actually - the whole movie.

posted July 17, 2008 09:16 AM         

And I can relate, somehow, to both of you. Now if that isn`t contradictory, then I don`t know what is. lol

The struggling, resisting element - well, what do I say? Those stories always appealed the most to me, where the black knight was kidnapping the princess and over some time they were both swept away by their feelings for each other, overcoming the social obstacles and mostly ran off together or something like that.
I must have watched too many pirate-movies as a child (actually I did. lol).

But those are just stories, I ACHE To believe that anything is possible, that I am able to "dream the impossible dream, reach the unreachable star", but this isn`t going to happen. It doesn`t work like that in real life.

Where does that come from? This romanticised version of how a fairy-tale-romance should be?
I think it has something to do with my inability to let go, to NOT keep my feelings under control.
They are there under the surface, boiling and brooding an always on the verge of erupting, but I`ve built some real strong towers and walls over and around them. Better not climb down the stairs in the cellar of my subconsciousness. No wonder there are the vampires at home. They feel right comfortable there, where I have banished all "emotional crap" to.

Don`T get me wrong. I`m a romantic at heart, I LOVE passionate romances, but I can`T bear it. It feels much too overwhelming and disturbing to me.

posted July 17, 2008 09:16 AM         

Maybe because I`ve been there once, not even in real life, just feeling those depth for someone to the point that it really felt that my life ended when I had to face reality again.

I have also seen it with friends of mine, where such a passion developed into a deeply unhealthy, abusive relationship. That wasn`t love,t hat was DEPENDENCY, ADDICTION.

There`s nothing glamorous about that. It`s disturbing, it sometimes even kills people, literally.

I`m easily scared of what I am feeling. Because I know how it can spiral downwards and deeply, so deep, that it drives me mad almost. So I try to avoid that circumstance.

For some reason that singer, Patrick, as well as Stuart Townsend, are able to "touch" this place inside me. Which is very disturbing to me.

And now, why am I talking about Patrick?
Well, I unfortunately had mentioned months ago that I would be going to see a musical (with him) in july, but I had decided to not. I do not want to see him again.
No, scratch that.

I`m HORRIFIED to see him again.
And now my parents almost FORCED me to go there, to have 2 or 3 days holidays, and they even are going to bring me there (connect it with a short trip of their own).
And even though it will be next week, there are still tickets on sale.
And everything is just pushing me into that direction, and I feel, like I am kicking and biting and screaming to not go there, even though I feel the compulsion to do so.
But it feels like I have no choice.

Can you tell me what that is? What is going on in that sick soul of mine?

Sorry, I fear I have disgressed more than slightly, but I feel so unsettled, and just thinking of seeing him again, makes me feel very strange.

But getting back to the subject: as complicated as I am inside of me, I think I need someone who is very straightforward, open, tolerant, honest, selfconfident (he would need it, because I am doubting my own feelings all the time), warm, with a great sense of humour, enthusiastic, philosophical, passionate and deep, but not necessarily tortured. I am tortured enough myself. Yes, I think the passion I crave is some kind of very deep, intense and able to face the darkest corners of the soul, but it has to be solid in itself, if you know what I mean?

Of course such a man does not exist.

HEre is my synastry with the unsettling musical singer btw.

posted July 17, 2008 09:42 AM         

yeah, it's been an interesting conversation. actually, it's interesting and good to get your take on it too - to see what others need and like too.

i like the idea of the black knight kidnapping the princess and then being swept away by their feelings for each other. alas, for such a mental creature as myself - i would need to find something redeeming about him before i allowed myself to give in to my feelings for him. i need to understand why i feel this way about him.

the struggling and resisting is ALL sexual as far as i'm concerned. it's a build up of energy, passion, momentum for an explosive release. and then there's nothing.