posted August 13, 2008 12:02 PM         

quote:

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BTW count me in as far as England is concerned. I always felt this was my home, too.

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Are we ALL from England??? Have we ALL lived there in past lives??? Maybe we all knew each other, and we have reunited via LindaLand!!! *Fireworks explode*

posted August 13, 2008 12:05 PM         

quote:

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i can't relate to the second pic though - as hamlet. somehow, to me, hamlet - the prince of denmark, has more hair. now, i know that sounds, well, fickle, but in my head, hamlet has longer hair and a not so receding hairline.

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OH MY GOD!!!! WE ARE SOOOOO ALIKE!!!! I definitely, definitely agree about Hamlet. Hamlet has always had longer, wild hair for me.

posted August 13, 2008 12:21 PM         

quote:

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Can`t there be both? That you love and lust for someone equally?

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Hmm... good question...

I think that you can truly love someone and have a passionate relationship with them. I don't think that just because that urgent sexual hunger is there, your love for one another is based purely on lust. That's not true, and it's not fair. Passion is tension. Passion is unbearable desire. Will it fade? Maybe. But i don't think something as strong and violent as that ever really fades. It may ease down, but it would always exist. Because the aspects that caused that passion will always exist. The synastry or composite chart isn't going to magically morph after the two people have become intensely intimate.

I do agree with you though, DD. A relationship that is HIGHLY passionate is very likely to end up destroying itself, and the two people involved. ...but i'm attracted to that. The very idea of it turns a switch on inside me. Doesn't it for you? I mean, you and i share an affinity for intensity in love. You have Venus square Pluto. You might understand where i'm coming from. You may not want that type of relationship, but maybe you could understand why i find it appealing...?

posted August 13, 2008 01:31 PM         

Tropical:

his Sun conjunct her Moon

his Sun oppoiste her Neptune

his Moon conjunct her Jupiter

his Venus trine her Sun

his Venus trine her Venus

his Venus trine her Juno

his Moon widely opposite her Mars

his Pluto exactly squares her Sun

his Pluto squares her Venus

his Pluto exactly squares her Juno

his Vertex conjunct her SN

his Eros ocnjunct her Mars

his Psyche conjunct her Cupido

his Amor conjunct her Moon

his Amor conjunct her Sappho

his Juno exactly trine her Mars

his Aphrodite exactly conjunct her SN

his Adonis trine her Aphrodite

his Cupido exactly conjunct her Uranus

his ASC exactly square her Mars (I`ll keep the conjunction though )

his DC conjunct her Adonis (it`s too wide in our case, as Jude`s Draco ASC is on 22° and my Draco Adonis on 17°)

his MC conjunct her Sun, Juno, Mercury and Amor

Draco

his dr Sun opposite her dr Amor and his dr Amor opposite her dr Sun

his dr Sun opposite her dr Cupido

his dr Venus conjunct her Aphrodite

his dr Venus opposite her dr Venus

his dr Neptune conjunct her dr Venus (we have the exact same aspect - with reversed roles-, but in the tropical)

his dr Mars conjunct her NN

his dr DC exaclty conjunct her dr Moon

his dr DC conjunct her dr Saturn

his AC conjunct her dr Uranus

his dr AC conjunct her dr Neptune (we actually have an exact double whammy of this conjunction in tropical)

his dr DC conjunct her dr Sappho

his dr Cupido opposite her Moon

his dr Cupido conjunct her Neptune

his dr IC conjunct her NN

his dr Neptune conjunct her Psyche

his dr Amor opposite her psyche

his dr Psyche conjunct her Amor - now this is REALLY spooky. Jude`s Amor is closely conjunct my Psyche, and it`s very close to the degrees Bosies and Olive`s conjunction fell on.
Bosie`s dr Psyche: 24°51 Aquarius
my Psyche: 24°02 Aquarius
Jude`s Amor:22°56 Aquarius
Olive`s Amor: 23°37 Aquarius

That is really interesting - for a lack of better word.

his dr Neptune conjunct her dr Sun

his dr Amor opposite her dr Venus

his Uranus opposite her dr Eros

his SN Conjunct her dr Amor

his dr Amor opposite her dr Juno (again we have the conjunction, but in the tropical, and it is his Juno and my Amor)

his dr Cupido conjunct her dr Cupido

posted August 13, 2008 03:34 PM         

funny, I don`t care if Hamlet has hair or not as long as he is intense.
And I somehow doubt I will waste a though on his receding hairline, when he is performing in front of me. And I mean in front of me. First row, center you remember?

But then, I do not have my Mars in Taurus.

BTW I wasn`t even really surprised when I found out that Bosie and Olive called each other PRince and PRincess. And that song, it comes often to my mind, now and then. I don`t know why. It has such a bittersweet feel to it and it`s almost like an echoe of a distant memory.
I was pretty fascinated with that song and that story when I was a kid; actually the idea of this prince and princess haunted me that much for a while, that I drew a picture of him. I never had a talent for drawing, but I drew the picture of a man, only once.
Darkblonde hair, eyes that were neither blue nor green, and for some reason that man was smoking. lol
And it did startle me quite a bit, when I was watching "Cold mountain" and recognized the familiarity between the man I had drawn so many years ago and Jude. It was not a complete spitting image of him, but it was much too close for me to feel comfortable. I mean I can`t have drawn Jude, because I drew that picture when I was maybe 9 or 10 years old, maybe even younger, probably younger. And he was about 10 - 12 at that time, so I couldn`t have seen him somewhere, I could not even have known how he WOULD look like years later. It remains a mystery to me, and it remained the only picture of a man I have ever drawn.
Ah yes, we sometimes do strange things.

On England:
yes, I have the feeling we might have known each other in a past life. WE`ve almost had 1000 posts here. Much to tell.

On passion:
yes, I do know what you mean, Meta. I have had and maybe still have a tendency for this kind of attraction, too.
But I also know that it`s not healthy for me. There`s another kind of passion, one that is fueled by life itself, by sun and warmth and enthusiasm, it burns brightly, it is positive and yet it is still passion, not the dark tortured, desperate kind.
Maybe more Aries passion than Scorpionic.

My Plutonic side, this dark passion, narrows the world, it makes you focus only on your beloved, and therefore everything becomes too tight, suffocating after a while. You`re going to start living FROM him, not with him. You breathe, because he breathes, you live, because he does. But as passionate this may sound, it means you are losing yourself; you`re losing yourself in żour beloved, until there is nothing more left from you that he can love. And if he takes back his love, his affection, his attention, you`re confronted with the emptiness. You have ceased to exist, because you only existed in him.

Many many years ago I have thought this to be passionate, romantic, truely intimate. But now I realize that this kind of love is deeply selfish, narcistic, I have become a parasite, feeding from t he object of my affection. I have made him the centre of my life, because there was no more ME. Only emotionally speaking of course.
When I realized what had happend, what i had done, how selfish I had been in my adoration, that I had USED him in a way to make me feel like I really was FEELING. Any feeling, no matter what, the more pain, the deeper, the more torturing, the better, because it had to be true then, hadn`t it? If I could SUFFER like this, it must have been really love, right?

But today I think I may have only loved myself in him, the way he made me feel. Which of course is always a part of loving someone.

posted August 13, 2008 03:41 PM         

One that doesn`t burn you to ashes, but that ignites you so you become a torch yourself.
It doesn`t lock you and your beloved in, but broadens the frame of your life, opening up the gates to the world, so there is a constant flow.
You don“t lose yourself in your lover, but feel like you have finally found your refleciton in him; you realize that you are already whole and complete; you have always been, but you never had the mirror to see this.
And it doesn`t feel like you and your lover, alone together against the rest of the world; but feels more like you`re connected with everything.
It`s a kind of passon that doesn`t EXCLUDE, but INTEGRATES.

posted August 13, 2008 04:34 PM         

quote:

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There`s another kind of passion, one that is fueled by life itself, by sun and warmth and enthusiasm, it burns brightly, it is positive and yet it is still passion, not the dark tortured, desperate kind.

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That sort of passion does nothing for me. Happy, jovial, joyful passion is not passion at all in my mind. When i think of the word "passion", i think of two people giving each other more than they should. I think of someone who has the power to completely destroy you with a blink of their perfect eye. I think of two people who are bound to one another.

I want a romance in which, one cannot survive without the other. Or at least i want it to feel that way.

The more i hear myself talk about this, and when i go back and read what i have written about the type of men and relationships i want... i'm sort of fearful. I don't think i ever really contemplated how dangerous what i want can potentially be to me. But all in all, whether i like it or not, that IS what i want. That IS the relationship i WILL have. I've only been in love twice, once 2 and a half years ago and the other right now. Both relationships were like this. And i loved it. I accept the misery and the suspicion and the sentimentality because these things are the consequences for having great passion. If there was no pain, than the love seems like it wouldn't be as demanding, or non-negotiable. My love is unapologetic, and i want my partner's love to be the same.

posted August 13, 2008 05:19 PM         

What do you put more weight on, the synastry chart, or the composite chart?

posted August 13, 2008 05:31 PM         

I`m not going to say you`re young, which you are btw.
And I`m not going to say you`re immature, which you definitely are NOT.
And yes, you`re right maybe it will not change for you. MAybe it will. I don`t know this now. I guess noone really knows. Maybe we`ll meet in 15 years from now and you`ll feel the same way as you do now. Maybe not.
But it doesn`t matter. All that matters is what you feel right NOW.

"That sort of passion does nothing for me. Happy, jovial, joyful passion is not passion at all in my mind."
I merrily disagree. (at least to the 2nd sentence).

But if you had asked me 7 months ago, I would have agreed with you. True passion is dark and dangerous and like an addiction, I would have said.

But I do not feel like this anymore. I feel that feelings and passions are much more multilayered than the stereotypical "dark romance", which can be a part of it.

Actually passion doesn`t mean anything different than just "letting something happen", some kind of surrendering.
And I still think that is a major theme of passion, the feeling of surrendering (but maybe that is only me).
I also think that passion is something that is BIGGER than you, which means bigger than your mind and reason. Passion makes you cross borders and taking risks. It demands courage of you.
But it does not need to destroy. Destruction is a possible part of passion, but not a necessary one (please remember I am only talking about me; I know that it can be different for other people).
Actually I think passion often is mistaken for posessiveness. Which can lead to abusive relationship, where one dominates the other, manipulates the other and kinda destroys the other and calls that passion and love.
It`s not love. It`s a powerplay, under the guise of passion.

But I`ll stop here. It hink we may be on different ends of that topic here.

"When i think of the word "passion", i think of two people giving each other more than they should."#
What does that mean? How much SHOULD you give someone else? Who defines how much?

" I think of someone who has the power to completely destroy you with a blink of their perfect eye."
Sorry, but that is abuse, and not love. Or let`s say it`s selflove and hunger for power, to prove that one has the power of the other.

There is a very fine line here, between true passion and love and an abusive dynamic in relationships.
You don`t want to destroy, what you love. (at least not according to my understanding of love).

You help each other to become who they are, which also asks for an act of trust and surrendering, to open completely to each other.

" I think of two people who are bound to one another."
I do agree with that.

"I want a romance in which, one cannot survive without the other."
I have seen those relationships. They usually end in bitterness and hate and even destruction. And believe me t here is NOTHING romantic in witnessing how a person gets destroyed by a so-called "passionate love".

I have a question for you, Meta.

Do you need someone, because you love him?
Or do you love someone, because you need him?

" If there was no pain, than the love seems like it wouldn't be as demanding, or non-negotiable."
So pain is the proof that you really are in love?

Yes, I thought, so, too. For many many years. But in my case, seriously, it was just a masked fear of accepting life, of risking to LIVE and risking to be actually HAPPY.
It`s actually a greater risk to actively shape my own life and take the responsibilities for it, including the way I feel, than having someone I can project it all onto.

I don`t say that you`re doing this, too, but I sometimes have the feeling,t hat most of us (I mean all living people) are sometimes more in love with the idea of love and passion than the other person itself. And the extasy of passion is intoxicating, so we crave an always higher dose. It CAN (it doesn`T HAVE to) become an addiction, actually, a dependency.

But *Deep sigh* let`s put all my reasoning apart and let me quote myself, or rather the heroine of one of my stories:

"I cannot go. I cant get away from you; youre everywhere, your face is haunting me, your voice is filling my ears, your touch is burning my skin. I cannot get away from you, you are inside of me, youre in my mind, youre under my skin, youre in my blood"

Or how about this one?

"Though divided by oceans of time and space I felt a strange familiarity, for I myself have always felt, as if I was standing outside. Even in the middle of a crowd I was alone. Of course I had a family, friends and I loved them dearly. But there was a place deep inside my soul, that remained empty; a dark hole, that swallowed every light; something inside me that was starving, craving for something I couldnt even name. The only time, the gnawing hunger in my entrails became silent, was when I sat in the darkness of a cinema, getting sucked in by the events on screen. The images connected directly to my mind, fulfilled my soul and for once I was satisfied. Of course it didnt last long. When the film ended and the lights went on, the hunger assaulted me again, more tormenting than ever. And so I spent more and more time sitting in dark cinemas inhaling the magic on celluloid. But the more I saw, the more I needed. I was like an addict craving for a higher dose of her drug. More films, more darkness, more depth, more passion. Reality was superficial, feelings were pragmatic, shortlived, lukewarm. Sure, there was understanding, sympathy, warmth, sometimes even love in relationships. But there was no depth, no intensity, no passion. Other people seemed to be contented with that, they had friendships and relationships, feeling safe and satisfied, and when they came to an end, they cried a little and moved on. It didnt really influence their way of life. Living like that was never enough for me; emotions just didnt reach deep enough to fill this empty place inside my soul. And so I came to the cinema night after night, longing for the illusion of depth."

or:

"... but theres more to this man. He touches me deeper than I can comprehend, strikes a chord inside me, I wasnt aware of before, well, maybe just vaguely. His eyes pierce through the obvious, crawl under my skin to a place inside me Ive never known before. His voice reverberates in my entrails, shaking me from inside and it feels as if my soul is answering to him. As if theres a bond between us and Im drawn to him, slowly, inevitably, with no control over my body, mind or heart anymore. It feels like fate. But not the pink blissful novel-like kind of fate, where the lovers sink sighing into each others arms to live happily ever after. Its rather like a beast, locked up in a dark corner of the soul, halfforgotten, yet feared, lying in wait, growling, thirsting, waiting for the chance to break free. Its tearing me apart, filling my heart with ache, howling, raging, consuming my soul with scorching heat.

Feeling my eyes water I tear my look away from Sean. Is this the passion I have been craving for? The depth, the intensity? Now I would rather it was gone. Its hopeless, painful, unleashing a storm inside me, that easily could sweep away everything, my past, my life, my integrity. I risk a sidewards glance at Seans refined features, feeling the warmth of his hand flowing through me. Memories of his lips pressed onto mine overflood me and suddenly the truth flashes through me. I want him. I crave for his touch, hunger for his kiss, yearn for his warmth. And not because hes talented or intelligent; not because I feel romantically attracted. I want him, because his body seems to be perfect for mine, because his eyes send electric bolts through my body, reaching for a layer of my soul, so deep down, hidden and unknown, with emotions, so raw and primal, that Im frightened all at once. A line of a song from long ago springs to my mind and for the first time I understand, fully comprehend the meaning of these words: You scare me so."

posted August 13, 2008 06:30 PM         

I'm going to answer your post bit by bit.

quote:

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I feel that feelings and passions are much more multilayered than the stereotypical "dark romance", which can be a part of it.

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I agree with you. There is much more to loving someone than what me or you or any one is describing. It's not black and white, it's every color imaginable.

Passion is filled with so many different ingredients. The parts i prefer may be different than the parts you prefer, but i think all of it exists. All of what we're all attracted to IN passion EXISTS IN passion. However, we're all attracted to particular elements that passion has to offer. Like you said, i'm attracted to the darker side. You're not, at least not currently. That doesn't mean that "my" passion is better, or "your" passion is worse. It means RIGHT NOW we are not looking for the same thing out of love, relationships, or a significant other.

posted August 13, 2008 06:40 PM         

quote:

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And I still think that is a major theme of passion, the feeling of surrendering (but maybe that is only me).

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No, it's not only you. I think that as well. I think, though, that the surrendering you're doing is to yourself AND the other person. You're breaking down your own barriers and giving someone else permission to cross into foreign territory. You're telling that person you want discover them and be discovered yourself. To strip yourself down for someone like that is beautiful. It's the hardest thing you'll ever do and the easiest thing you'll ever do. All at once.

But what i'm talking about when i said,

quote:

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I think of someone who has the power to completely destroy you with a blink of their perfect eye

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i meant that by surrendering like that, you are inevitably given your lover power. You are placing yourself, in your entirety, in their hands. They could lift you up beyond the clouds, or they could send you straight into ruin. Once you have fallen in love to such a degree, that person becomes a part of you. They live under your flesh. I'm not saying that you forget how to function in life, i'm saying that you both function better together than you ever could as separate entities.

posted August 13, 2008 06:56 PM         

Hmm... let me explain it to you this way. In a less morbid, dependent fashion.

With Paul, i feel that we are connected to each other in a serious way. He is everything in me that is good. That is brave, that is beautiful. And what i desire most for me, for him, for us, for this relationship is to be sewn together. If he cuts himself, my finger bleeds. If he puffs a cigarette, i blow out smoke. That sort of transformation in love is the ultimate goal in my life. That's what drives me. To know that you are the soul and this person is the body. Neither can live this life without the other. Or, neither can live a MEANINGFUL, FULL life without the other. Your significant other is essential. Necessary.

posted August 13, 2008 07:03 PM         

quote:

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I have a question for you, Meta.

Do you need someone, because you love him?
Or do you love someone, because you need him?

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I need someone, because i love him.

Actually, i think that both things happen to me at the same time. I realize that i love someone when i realize that i need them. When i FEEL i need him. When i feel that he has become my North, my South, my East and West, and that the Sun wouldn't rise without him. That's the eye opener for me. When you're questioning yourself how deeply you feel about a romantic partner, you always ask "Do i love him? Need him?" Well, if you need him than you do love him. If you don't need him then he's not a key factor in your life. If he's not a key factor in your life, how can you really love him?

posted August 13, 2008 07:09 PM         

quote:

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I don`t say that you`re doing this, too, but I sometimes have the feeling,t hat most of us (I mean all living people) are sometimes more in love with the idea of love and passion than the other person itself.

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posted August 14, 2008 12:51 AM         

quote:

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Passion is tension

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disagree.

posted August 14, 2008 01:03 AM         

quote:

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That sort of passion does nothing for me. Happy, jovial, joyful passion is not passion at all in my mind.

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i think dd is using the word passion to convey depth of connection. and i think meta is using the word passion to convey the energy of spontaneous combustion - that whole feeling that you will die if you don't express this love or that you love them so much that being without them feels like death itself.

quote:

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When i think of the word "passion", i think of two people giving each other more than they should.

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i think of it as in two people giving each other the opportunity and freedom to be more than they would otherwise. it's about the individual - growing through the union. you can't place yourself in the other person because then you lose yourself.

quote:

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I think of someone who has the power to completely destroy you with a blink of their perfect eye. I think of two people who are bound to one another.

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real love is not destructive. it's expansive. two people who are bound together have as much opportunity to imprison each other as to free each other and their love and emotions. if you have one partner who is stronger or dominant or even one who is slightly submissive - you have great danger. it's highly unbalanced - even abusive. you have to trust the intentions of the other person fully - that they are being completely open and trustworthy. it's hard in these dynamics to know that - it's the kind of thing you learn when it's too late. by giving someone else your own power you relegate yourself to the submissive role - no matter how powerful you believe yourself to be. you have given them your very self.

quote:

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I want a romance in which, one cannot survive without the other. Or at least i want it to feel that way.

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posted August 14, 2008 01:35 AM         

quote:

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Neither can live this life without the other. Or, neither can live a MEANINGFUL, FULL life without the other. Your significant other is essential. Necessary.

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i think that's key here. it's the difference between idealism and experience. experience shows you that there are people out there who have different ideas and intentions to you. and it's through the experience of dealing with people and relationships in general that you really do learn that what you were looking for in the first place was your self. and that other people are a passage to that.

posted August 14, 2008 02:54 AM         

you really took the words out of my mouth. Or expressed better what I wanted to say, than I could do myself.

I very much agree on the danger of getting a tunnel sight. You know that I have been there. For a real long time. And I feel just now that I can be really open to the possibilities around me.

And that`s what makes a Sag heart dance, those endless possibilities.

It also includes that ache for someone else, this desire for merging (but merging as equal partners).

posted August 14, 2008 03:26 AM         

quote:

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but merging as equal partners

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posted August 14, 2008 08:00 AM         

quote:

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So i asked you if you had ever gotten that vibe from someone. If you had ever felt that the sexual side of the relationship would dominate over the mental, emotional and spiritual sides.

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posted August 14, 2008 08:09 AM         

quote:

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And it doesn`t feel like you and your lover, alone together against the rest of the world; but feels more like you`re connected with everything.

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posted August 14, 2008 08:19 AM         

quote:

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When you're questioning yourself how deeply you feel about a romantic partner, you always ask "Do i love him? Need him?" Well, if you need him than you do love him. If you don't need him then he's not a key factor in your life. If he's not a key factor in your life, how can you really love him?

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