posted August 14, 2008 09:16 AM         

regarding the questions about loving someone because you need him, or needing him because you love him.

I put these questions because I think there is an important difference in attitude.

If you love someone, because you need him, the need comes first. But needing someone concentrates very much on yourself.

But if you need someone, because you love him, the love comes first. And love is a feeling that goes out to the other, it`s more "You-oriented".

For me I rather need someone because I love him. Also, I think many people make themselves believe they love a certain person, because they think they need him. And that "love" is the justification of their need. Ah, I don`t know, maybe it was just a nunsense-thought.

PA,

I agree, love is flowing. Obsession is getting stuck. That is the reason that I think obsession actually blocks the love.

It also has something to do with the surrenderpart or opening up part as I understand it. Love can only flow, when you`ve opened up to each other. If there are still defenses against each other, there is no flowing possible.

Also, one key point I meant to mention, too (and you did), is that a very important part of passion and love is trust. You have to trust someone very deeply to let him inside (in all possible ways ).

Another thing that is important for me to remember is the "living for the moment"-thing. I tend to freeze up a certain moment to keep him alive in my memory and heart, but that means I get stuck there. I`m not going to go there again.

Also, I love the thought of soulmates, and for a certain time I ahve been obsessed by it, but lately I came to realize that it is not important. Only love matters, no matter in what guise it comes. AS twinsoul, soulmate, earthmate, it doesn`t matter. (of course the thought is still very appealing that we can meet our soulmates).

Does the term soulmate imply, that we should not love another person, UNLESS we can be sure he is our soulmate?
No, not like this, I don`t think so.

" would be questioning it. i think it's easy to translate that a gentle easy relationship is sexless. but it's not"
I love that thought.

I also thought that what I feel as intensity or passion is actually the courage and ability to break down my own inner walls. In my case those walls are so stony and high that it sometimes feels it would need a hurricane or a typhoon to crash them down.

But I also know that it all falls back onto me, myself. It`s me who is doing the opening up, my choice (even though I may not always be aware of it consciously), but of course this choice to open up is influenced by the level of attraction, fascination, affection, affinity and TRUST I feel for the other.

If is used to say: I want someone who can overpower me, overwhelm me, sweep me off my sweet, leaving me no choice, I didn`t REALLY want to hand him over the power to make me or destroy me, but what I really craved for was someone for whom my feelings were so strong, that they would overpower my MIND, my REASON, my DOUBTS, so that I would be able to let my feelings flow.

I`m not sure I really know what I am talking about or what I feel or really want. All I can do is trying to get of the core of this mysterious thing called love, passion, soul.

I do think, sometimes, when I write stories and reread them I start understanding myself a little bit better.
It never ends with conquering someone else (not really), it always ends with conquering myself, or actually letting myself surrender to the emotional side, no matter how unreasonable it may seem.

I don`t know why, but I just reread the story of O.J.Simpson and NIcole Brown, and it just leaves me with horror. Those were two people who thought they were insanely attracted to each other and that theirs was a deep passion, and yet it was nothing else but an abusive relationship, that ended in violence and murder. It`s horrifying for me.

posted August 14, 2008 11:33 AM         

It seems, well, from what i have deciphered from all of your posts, that i'm in love with me. That in a relationship, i'm not thinking about the other person, i'm focusing on myself.

... i'm not quite sure what to do with that. I agree that i lack experience, but never have i thought that i'm selfish in love. That i'm putting me first. Maybe i do. But if that's true, then right now i really detest myself for being like that. It's hard for me to even fathom the idea. But maybe that's the problem. I'm not seeing myself from the outside, like you are. I'm looking at myself through MY eyes.

posted August 14, 2008 12:03 PM         

you definitely should NOT keep quiet. IT`s so interesting to talk to you and you make me face my own issues in that regard.

Also, I think it`s pretty normal and not really selfish; You can only give what you have inside. You can`t be anything you`re not.
So to be able to love someone else, you first have to be able to love yourself. I am not talking about being egoistical, but about being able to accept and love yourself. This love, this capacity of loving will flow out of you towards others and then you can love them, too.

But yes, it`s part of the whole thing that we love ourselves in the other one first. That is the in-love-phase, which is characterised by projections of our aniumus onto the man in question. It`s an image we carry inside and to which we are attracted, when we meet it outside.
And after we have taken back our projections and realized that the man doesn`t only have similiarity with our animus, but is a person himself, that is when the next phase of love begins, a very deep love and appreciation of the other.

I think what you said about passion and intensity and depth, it`s profound and it`s an important part of merging with someone else. But what I want to emphasise is that this passion should not be a reason for giving up your selfrespect; it should not lead us to put anyone onto a pedestal, placing us in a rather submissive position (or the other one), but within the context of passion we should be able to see eye to eye with the one we love.
Just like Lilith wanted it, too. She didn`t want supremacy over Adam, she wanted equality.

I really believe that a true merging of soul is only possible, if both persons are equally important, and love each other as well as themselves.

But it`s just my opinion. You know there are as many opinions on love as people live. Also, they mostly change over a certain amount of time, and the way they change and become modified has a lot to do with the experiences one makes.

posted August 14, 2008 04:20 PM         

quote:

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Are we ALL from England???

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Oh, England, my Lionheart, Peter Pan steals the kids in Kensington Park

posted August 14, 2008 10:54 PM         

no - not being selfish. i think the whole point was that maybe you were not being focussed on yourself enough. by giving yourself completely to one person you are giving yourself away to someone else for their own use of you and not having any of you for yourself. what we're saying is - devote yourself to you and then share it with someone else. make it about you - not them. don't give away your power - own it.

meta, i really think your desire for an all consuming relationship has nothing to do with anyone else. i think that it's just what you think you need - to be overwhelmingly desired by someone else, that they love you that much and completely - that makes you feel personally and internally secure enough to be totally open with them. it has nothing to do with them. it's what offers you the trust and safety net you need. that's my interpret.

posted August 14, 2008 10:56 PM         

you're just teasing now.

posted August 14, 2008 10:57 PM         

Just wanted to leave my mark on the longest thread in the world.

posted August 14, 2008 10:59 PM         

quote:

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I think that it would just be better if i kept my mouth shut about my opinions on love and relationships and passion and men for a while. I just need to keep quiet.

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two things about this.

1. i love these discussions between us and you have really interesting thoughts and views to share so that would be a real shame for all of us - because we learn from each other - i think.

and

2. as if we could shut you up anyway....... ROFL.

posted August 14, 2008 11:06 PM         

quote:

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Just wanted to leave my mark on the longest thread in the world.

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LOL.

posted August 15, 2008 03:08 AM         

from today's Times
http://timesbusiness.typepad.com/money_weblog/2008/08/britains-riches.html

1. The Earl of Pembroke

With beautiful stately home, Wilton House, and an estimated fortune of £105 million, this aristocrat needs no introduction. The Earl was gushingly described by one journalist as being: “Tall, thin but not weedy, and with the most beautiful blue-green eyes imaginable. Polite, modest, friendly, charming.” The 29 year old declined to speak to Money Central and is probably trying to keep a low profile.

Where does the Earl come in the 2008 Young People Rich List?

2. Daniel Radcliffe

He may be known to millions as Harry Potter, but Radcliffe, 18, is all grown up and now worth an estimated £20 million. His critically acclaimed performance on stage in Equus, where he appeared naked, sealed his new reputation as both serious actor and heart-throb. In his spare time he enjoys cricket, watching Fulham FC and playing bass guitar.

3. Mike Welch

Welch, 29, started off as a tyre-fitter in Liverpool when he was 16. Seven years later he set up BlackCircles, selling tyres at 40 per cent less than high street prices. The business now has a turnover of £10 million, with openings in France, Germany, Holland and Italy. He is now based in Peebles, Scotland, and enjoys boxing and watching Liverpool FC in his spare time.

4. Dhani Harrison

The son of the late George Harrison, Dhani and his mother Olivia were left an estimated fortune £160 million. Harrison, 29, seems to have inherited his father’s musical ambitions – he plays lead guitar and performs vocals in his own band, thenewno2, which he formed with Oliver Hecks in 2006.

See where Dhani stands in the Rich List

5. Adam Hildreth

One of our youngest entrepreneurs at 23, Hildreth has already amassed a fortune of £25 million after he set up Dubit, a website for teenagers, when he was just 14. His new venture, Crisp Thinking, based in Leeds, develops online child protection technology.

6. Jenson Button

Aged 28 and based in Monaco, Button won his first grand prix in August 2006 and has a five-year £50m deal with Honda. His relationships with ex-girlfriends, including Fame Academy's Louise Griffiths and socialite Florence Brudenell-Bruce, have kept him on the tabloid radar. Ladies who enjoy camping will be pleased to learn his car collection reportedly includes a 1956 VW Campervan.

Does Jenson take pole position in the Young People Rich List?

7. Cristiano Ronaldo

The scores of teenage girls aspiring to become WAGs will probably not be deterred by the many tabloid tales detailing Ronaldo’s partying lifestyle and sexual indiscretions. The 23 year old Portuguese may be on a £120,000 a week salary at Manchester United – but this bachelor is certainly not for the faint-hearted.

Position in Rich List

8. James Toseland

Motorcycle racer Toseland, 27, is the 2007 World Superbike Champion and worth about £8 million. When he is not riding his bike at 200 MPH, he plays the keyboard in his band Crash. In 2006, he did a naked photo-shoot in women’s magazine Cosmopolitan, posing on a bike with only the petrol tank to cover his modesty...

Rich List entry

9. Jonny Wilkinson

The clean cut golden boy of rugby has been a favourite pin-up since he stormed on to the international stage during the 2003 Rugby World Cup. Worth an estimated £11 million, the star is still considered down-to-earth and close to his family – he reportedly lives with his brother in Northumberland.

Position in Rich List

10. Princes William and Harry

posted August 15, 2008 03:09 AM         

The Earl of Pembroke sounds nice. A bit shy, maybe he needs an older woman to boost his confidence.

posted August 15, 2008 01:52 PM         

Gotta luv the rear view...

oh yeah baby! (fans self)

posted August 15, 2008 06:34 PM         

And on a funny note..
my step dad and my ex are the same age lol..

posted August 16, 2008 12:05 AM         

quote:

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i'd like to see meta married to one of the princes. she could invite us all to one of the palaces for tea. imagine us as a group at a royal function. ROFL.

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Ralph is a Prince, you know... Prince of the Dark Arts ^_^

posted August 16, 2008 12:14 AM         

ROFL.

posted August 16, 2008 10:12 AM         

quote:

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I don't mind younger men. Or older ones. Or any age in between.

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good to see you have some level of discrimination.

is a pulse a requirement?

posted August 16, 2008 09:22 PM         

For some reason, some ODD, ODD reason... i'm smitten.