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Author
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Topic: Abortion...right or wrong?
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LEXX
Moderator Posts: 5388
From: Still out looking for Schrodinger's cat.......& LEXIGRAMMING.♥.. is my Passion!
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted January 14, 2009 08:20 PM
  
Since some serious issues have been brought up here....
What are everyone's thoughts on abortion?
I have never had one.
If one elects to have one they should the moment they even "think" they could be pregnant. Preg tests can be positive even before the first missed cycle. And one knows if they had protected sex or not. Why wait?
I do not condone it after 12 weeks except to save the life of the mother...and with rare exception if the child would suffer more if born, or die soon after anyhow.
I also believe the soul does not move into the foetal body until 12 weeks.
I have a theory on that but will not get into it at this moment.------------------
Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain. IP: Logged |
PeaceAngel
Knowflake Posts: 4311
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted January 14, 2009 08:53 PM
I'm pro-choice. I think it's a terrible decision for someone to have to make, for whatever reasons. Very sad.  IP: Logged |
LEXX
Moderator Posts: 5388
From: Still out looking for Schrodinger's cat.......& LEXIGRAMMING.♥.. is my Passion!
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted January 14, 2009 08:59 PM
I agree. 
It is ultimately a very personal hard choice for most to make.
I do take issue however with some girls I know of who keep on having unprotected sex and then use repeated aborting as a means of birth control.   IP: Logged |
PeaceAngel
Knowflake Posts: 4311
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted January 14, 2009 09:05 PM
Yeah, Lexx. I hear you. I'm never going to understand that one. IP: Logged |
future_uncertain
Knowflake Posts: 195
From:
Registered: May 2009
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posted January 14, 2009 09:11 PM
It's weird LEXX, but I feel the same way about the 12 week thing... about the soul taking the body, I mean. I don't know why I feel this way, and I've been wrestling with it for a while. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts. You can email them if you prefer. I'll have to get you my current addy.A complicated issue, for sure... IP: Logged |
koiflower
Knowflake Posts: 1984
From: Australia
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted January 14, 2009 11:22 PM
Looking forward to reading your theory when you're ready LEXX.A very difficult situation for a woman if she is considering an abortion. I've not had one, but the women I do know that chose one because of exceptional circumstances, have never forgotten.
IP: Logged |
AcousticGod
Knowflake Posts: 4914
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted January 14, 2009 11:48 PM
I'm pro-the-conditions-that-would-naturally-curb-the-impulse. That's my convoluted way of expressing acceptance for the Pro-Choice view, while advocating for the conditions whereby we might make it less prevalent such as increased education, advocating adoption, etc.There's an interesting argument in the book Freakonomics that basically makes the case that at a time where crime had reached a crescendo and was only expected to worsen (early 1990's) crime suddenly started declining as a result of legalized abortion. You can read about it here. IP: Logged |
venusdeindia
unregistered
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posted January 15, 2009 03:50 AM
quote:
I also believe the soul does not move into the foetal body until 12 weeks
I agree with you on that. Many times the soul itself decides not to go on with its decision to incarnate in the present situation. Thats the real reason for miscarriages, though it means little to a mother whose dreams are destroyed. i am 50- 50 on this too. When threatening to a mothers life ...its every womens choice, though i know some who go ahead. Same for children with disabilities, a soul chooses to be disabled to learn its evolutionary lessons, that makes it very ironic a reason to abort. I only wonder if the parents would dump a disabled baby in the garbage if they couldnt find out in the prenatal tests and exercise choice. Sadly in our country , our idiotic govt programmes like those in China started promoting smaller familes and abortions as a way to a better life..guess whqat the ones to get aborted are girls, millions of them. We have a rising gender gap that will have hideous repercussions come Time AG is right, we should get rid of reasons that drive women to such choices. IP: Logged |
Eleanore
Moderator Posts: 112
From: Okinawa, Japan
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted January 15, 2009 05:05 AM
I think abortion should remain legal, except in the third trimester, until people can figure out how to stop making babies they don't want. I also think, until that glorious time comes, that adoption should be promoted as an excellent choice for creating or extending your family. I know this will probably rile people up but I think it's very strange times we're living in when so many babies are aborted, so many children are in orphanages or foster care, and so many children are created through or with the help of artificial means. Personal choices, I know. I'm not condemning anyone. It's just altogether very strange to me. IP: Logged |
mezzoelf1
Newflake Posts: 6
From: somerset UK
Registered: Jun 2009
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posted January 15, 2009 06:01 AM
This is a very sad subject.I think any woman should have access to an abortion as a 'last resort' in a clean and safe environment, and without stigma. I don't believe I (or anyone else for matter) can judge someone for their choice to have an abortion. I also think that we don't have the proper support and counselling in place for women who do make the choice. I agree that abortion as a means of contraception is not acceptable. And I am happy to state that openly. I don't think there is enough sex ed in schools and, from personal experience of working with teens, there def. isn't enough from the parents. I don't agree with aborting a foetus due to suspected/confirmed disability - it goes against what I understand of the Laws of Karma. (Unless there is risk to the mother's life) Adoption is a very long and difficult process esp.in this country. A couple were in the news recently having been told they couldn't adpot because the husband was overweight. Our whole view of motherhood, sex and parenting needs looking at as, I believe, the value that was once placed on these has been diminished. If young women respected their bodies and themselves they wouldn't be looking to sex to bolster their fragile self esteem. Young men have also forgotton what it is to respect women, seeing them, essentially, as sexual objects, an image continually perpetuated by mass media. Young women play up to this objectification of themselves, falsely saying 'its empowering'. Eh? How? (and don't get me started on the Bloody Pussycat Dolls.........) sorry, rant over. ------------------
Out of clutter find simplicity. From dischord find harmony. In the middle of difficulty, lies opportunity. - Albert Einstein IP: Logged |
PeaceAngel
Knowflake Posts: 4311
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted January 15, 2009 06:28 AM
quote:
an image continually perpetuated by mass media. Young women play up to this objectification of themselves, falsely saying 'its empowering'. Eh? How?
No arguments from me. It's not subjective to the younger generation though (making myself seem really old - at 38). There's a few my age and beyond that want to replicate that behaviour. I'm thinking Madonna. We had this discussion recently. One argument was basically that empowered women have the freedom to express themselves by shaking their crotch around indiscriminately. The rest of us argued that this was actually sending women backwards. IP: Logged |
mezzoelf1
Newflake Posts: 6
From: somerset UK
Registered: Jun 2009
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posted January 15, 2009 06:34 AM
PeaceAngelI'm 28 and horrified by it! As a teacher I see on a daily basis the damage this sort of thinking has on young women AND men. They have sex way before they are ready; abortions are not uncommon. I find the whole situation deeply tragic. No 'child' (and here I mean anyone under the age of 16) ought to be having sex, let alone an abortion. It almost not worth thinking about. ------------------
Out of clutter find simplicity. From dischord find harmony. In the middle of difficulty, lies opportunity. - Albert Einstein IP: Logged |
venusdeindia
unregistered
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posted January 15, 2009 07:31 AM
Peace Angel and Mezzoelf  IP: Logged |
koiflower
Knowflake Posts: 1984
From: Australia
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted January 15, 2009 08:17 AM
quote:
Adoption is a very long and difficult process esp.in this country. A couple were in the news recently having been told they couldn't adpot because the husband was overweight.
There is no discrimination law to fall pregnant and have a baby. However, there's a mountain of issues to wade through with adopting. I would adopt a child at the drop of a hat. I would love to. I would do it tomorrow, if I was able, but the laws of this state do not permit me to do so. I would give a child a great home full of love and support, but because I'm not married I cannot adopt. That's the irony! Here I am wanting to adopt, but a preganant woman who does not want her child cannot give him/her to me!!! IP: Logged |
LEXX
Moderator Posts: 5388
From: Still out looking for Schrodinger's cat.......& LEXIGRAMMING.♥.. is my Passion!
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted January 15, 2009 08:29 AM
quote:
I think abortion should remain legal, except in the third trimester,
I cannot agree to that.
Why?
Because I was born at the end of the second...or very beginning of the third.
They were not sure.
I also know quite a few folks born in the mid to late second trimester.IP: Logged |
LEXX
Moderator Posts: 5388
From: Still out looking for Schrodinger's cat.......& LEXIGRAMMING.♥.. is my Passion!
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted January 15, 2009 08:33 AM
quote:
That's the irony! Here I am wanting to adopt, but a preganant woman who does not want her child cannot give him/her to me!!!
I can relate too well to that.
So many folks denied the option of adopting.IP: Logged |
mezzoelf1
Newflake Posts: 6
From: somerset UK
Registered: Jun 2009
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posted January 15, 2009 08:34 AM
Obviously adoption laws are there to protect the child, esp. if they've come from difficult and damaging circumstances. However, when you consider the conditions many children are bought up in, any home (regardless of whether the people are married, single, gay etc) where love and support are offered ought to be considered a vast improvement, and therefore a viable option. What makes me so angry are these single female celebs who somehow seem to bypass all these laws and end up adopting children from all over the globe. Something is not right.------------------
Out of clutter find simplicity. From dischord find harmony. In the middle of difficulty, lies opportunity. - Albert Einstein IP: Logged |
wheelsofcheese
Newflake Posts:
From:
Registered:
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posted January 15, 2009 08:56 AM
I agree with Peace Angel and mezzoelf, except mezzoelf's point: quote:
I don't agree with aborting a foetus due to suspected/confirmed disability
I think there should be right to choose here too. Not because I am discriminating against people with disabilites, I'm not. But say for example you already have a family, and you find out that your next child will be so severely disabled that he or she is likely to take up all your time, resources or alter your lives to such an extent that it will be to the detriment of your existing children or your own/spouses mental health/opportunities etc? I would have to consider myself/spouse and any existing children first and foremost. I know this sounds extreme but I can only be honest here. Caring for children with severe disabilites is no picnic. I couldn't say what I would do, but I don't condemn those who consider that, on balance, they don't want to continue the pregnancy. IP: Logged |
mezzoelf1
Newflake Posts: 6
From: somerset UK
Registered: Jun 2009
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posted January 15, 2009 10:25 AM
Wheelsofcheese,I do take your point, and understand exactly where you are coming from. Of course each situation is different - but what about a time before it was possible to find this information out? People had to cope - I'm not saying its ideal, but it doesn't sit comfortably with me. Knowledge is not always power - I would hope that any child I had, regardless of what condition they were born in, would be loved and had the chance to live through that bit of their Karma. I know a family close to ours who have a down syndrome child. Very beautiful but very damaged. They also have two other children - its not been easy but they said they wouldn't change it for the world. I dunno - its a very tricky area. I can only go by what I feel, deep down, and these 'souls' deserve the chance to live. ------------------
Out of clutter find simplicity. From dischord find harmony. In the middle of difficulty, lies opportunity. - Albert Einstein IP: Logged |
PeaceAngel
Knowflake Posts: 4311
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted January 15, 2009 10:28 AM
Just tackling it from the adoption angle. I just want to say I really wish that adoption was a lot easier. It's a very long, drawn out process.IP: Logged |
wheelsofcheese
Newflake Posts:
From:
Registered:
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posted January 15, 2009 10:32 AM
Yup, I understand what you're saying too. I think it might not be my decision to abort (although I couldn't say, in the case of severe disability) but my point was really about others' right to choose even if it's not what I would do.  IP: Logged |
wheelsofcheese
Newflake Posts:
From:
Registered:
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posted January 15, 2009 10:33 AM
Adoption should be easier. I think about all the unwanted and unloved children and it seems criminal.IP: Logged |
PeaceAngel
Knowflake Posts: 4311
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted January 15, 2009 10:36 AM
wheels quote:
I think about all the unwanted and unloved children and it seems criminal.
Yes, there's a lot of loving people that would cherish to have and love these children. IP: Logged |
mezzoelf1
Newflake Posts: 6
From: somerset UK
Registered: Jun 2009
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posted January 15, 2009 10:36 AM
Oh, its such a minefield.....
Of course, the right to choose it something we shouldn't take away from people. I suppose I just feel its odd that this 'right' has emerged alongside the technology that allows us to know these things in advance. Just because we can, does that make it a right?! ------------------
Out of clutter find simplicity. From dischord find harmony. In the middle of difficulty, lies opportunity. - Albert Einstein IP: Logged |
amowls
Newflake Posts: 4
From: Falls Church, VA, USA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted January 16, 2009 09:12 PM
Abortion is fine and it's the one thing I doubt I'll ever change my mind on (even with all my mutable planets).And I don't find it particularly sad, either. But I can see how someone would be upset about it. And mezzo, abortion has been around for centuries. It's only had a stigma attached to it recently, and it coincides with the rise in technology. IP: Logged |
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