posted March 29, 2009 01:36 AM         

I'm the same. There's a lot of places at LL I don't fit. I pretty much keep to LLC or Astro 1 and 2. Usually if I don't like a thread I'll just go to another one. Every now and then there's an exception. But for the most part, I try to focus on where I can make a genuine contribution - whether it be in terms of astrological thought, or insight and experience, or just some fun and laughs.

posted March 29, 2009 01:45 AM         

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To me, LL is a microcosm of the world.

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posted March 29, 2009 01:47 AM         

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HSC - you mentioned the other day, you may have aspergers?
It's a fascinating condition. I work around it every day.
I just mention this because you seem to be cognicizing everything in black and white terms.

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Well, its clear I dont show all the symptoms of Asperger's.
I am actually notorious in some circles for not thinking in black and white.
A number of people appreciate my intellect on acount of what they see as
its ability to perceive subtlety, nuance, possibility and paradox.

In fact, this has become such a problem for me that I have almost
entirely lost any sense of self, identity, or personal conviction.
I have openned myself up too wide for too long, and all but drowned
in the contradictory voices of the collective unconscious.

Lately, I have begun to emerge from this phase of development,
and to see more stucture appealing in my thinking.

You noticed this.

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You said the other day a few things, which I felt you wanted to get a lot of your chest. You certainly have been posting a lot.
I'm sorry to say, I haven't really read a lot of what you've posted. I'm too tired and busy to do so.
Have you felt you've purged yourself of all your mindful passions over these 72-96 hours?

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I dont expect you to read or respond, I just need to get it out.
I am never purged of my mindful passions. They are a part of me.
But I manage to direct them into fairly constructive channels, I think.
I havent screamed "b!tch or "pansy" or "a$$hole" at anyone for years.
So, I guess I am holding myself together alright, for the most part.

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You mentioned you have posted provocative statements.
Is there a reason for this? How would you describe yourself, if you don't mind me asking.

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I'm ahead of my time.
I question a lot of things,
and I speak forcefully,
so my truth may be heard.

posted March 29, 2009 01:52 AM         

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here is a sanctuary where you can discuss topics
and experiences that you can't often in the "real" world.

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I have not found this to be the case for myself.

I'm as judged for my ideas here as I've been anywhere else.

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A lot of the stuff said here is taboo or just seen as outright crazy out there.

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A lot of the stuff I say here is considered taboo and crazy right here.

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So I think we should have that level of understanding, respect and compassion.
Even here at times, amongst what we would think are broad minded,
and like minded people, it can be very vulnerable saying certain things.

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You are telling me?

I've made myself vulnerable here,
and I have the scars to prove it.

I want what you want, for the most part.

Don't I?

posted March 29, 2009 01:58 AM         

The Superficial thread is difficult to follow, because there's repeated claims of a debate by HSC, but no evidence of one. It's puzzling. Page after page of back and forth personal attacks, but no real meat or substance (as far as I could see). I also made note of several times people mentioned that they understood HSC's position along with a notion that they get it, and why not just move on -the point has been made; end of story sort of thing. There were also calls of a change of venue, so that people who actually want to discuss the subject could congregate.

From the history of that thread that has been distilled and simplified here in this thread by its participants, it seems to me that it was really an attempt at manipulation on HSC's part. He wants to provoke people into action of some sort. He wants people to think or explore the ideas in his head, but doesn't take into account what his audience actually wants to do. He's like a picketer at a political event. The only real outcome is likely annoying people.

posted March 29, 2009 02:00 AM         

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I'm as judged for my ideas here as I've been anywhere else.

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Have you considered it a possibility that because of this history and it's affect on you that you now just come to expect it. Even sometimes when it's not that way, it just "seems" that way.

I've been ridiculed most of my life for being "different". I don't see it. But anyway, it's left a mark where in the past I expected to be treated a certain way so I walked into a situation on the defensive, feeling the need, before even saying hello to anyone, to prepare certain explanations of myself, etc.

posted March 29, 2009 02:05 AM         

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He wants people to think or explore the ideas in his head, but doesn't take into account what his audience actually wants to do. He's like a picketer at a political event. The only real outcome is likely annoying people.

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AG, interesting point. Just adding to this, maybe it hasn't been considered that they have actually thought about it and they just don't agree or find value in it.

I've found that just because we think we express ourselves or our points well, does not ensure that we're going to be understood as we desire, or that people are going to agree.

I tend to think that silence speaks loudly at LL. You can generally tell the number of people who agree because they'll post. It's the number of people who don't post that shows the interest in the subject and that really shows general opinion. That's my observation and thoughts anyway.

posted March 29, 2009 02:10 AM         

I feel like I am starting to consider a lot of that.

posted March 29, 2009 02:17 AM         

I would just love to see you find peace with yourself. In that, you always have an ally in me.

I would say the same thing to anyone. Maybe, in the "What Do You Stand For" thread, that's mine - that people just like/love themselves.

posted March 29, 2009 02:19 AM         

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I tend to think that silence speaks loudly at LL. You can generally tell the number of people who agree because they'll post. It's the number of people who don't post that shows the interest in the subject and that really shows general opinion.

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posted March 29, 2009 02:23 AM         

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Many have left LL too because of certain people.

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Personally, I would put that down the choices of the people who leave. I don't think it's about those "certain" people - it's not their issue.

I've left jobs because of people I didn't like. I understand that. But in the end, it was never about them. It was about my inability to believe that I could deal with those dynamics.

Even you and I, we don't agree on a number of things, there's an element of tension there, but there's common ground there too. I wouldn't leave LL because you and I disagree on something. And you certainly wouldn't either, vice versa.

posted March 29, 2009 02:28 AM         

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I've hesitated getting involved for the same reason MM has.

The Superficial thread is difficult to follow, because there's repeated claims of a debate by HSC, but no evidence of one. It's puzzling. Page after page of back and forth personal attacks, but no real meat or substance (as far as I could see). I also made note of several times people mentioned that they understood HSC's position along with a notion that they get it, and why not just move on -the point has been made; end of story sort of thing. There were also calls of a change of venue, so that people who actually want to discuss the subject could congregate.

From the history of that thread that has been distilled and simplified here in this thread by its participants, it seems to me that it was really an attempt at manipulation on HSC's part. He wants to provoke people into action of some sort. He wants people to think or explore the ideas in his head, but doesn't take into account what his audience actually wants to do. He's like a picketer at a political event. The only real outcome is likely annoying people.

To me, it dissolved into nonsense. I recommended to BlueMoon that she shut it down this morning before I left for my day at the amusement park.

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It disappoints me that you see it this way, AG.

You don't see me weaving metaphors and analogies,
and pursuing trains of thought with the purpose of
systematically questioning the assumptions of others?

I did not see anyone say that they agreed with my point.
They may say that they saw my point, but then they objected,
and seemed to ignore a number of other things I had said.
So, its like, they saw part of my point, or one of my points,
and they objected, believing they had seen my entire point.

I was not just trying to manipulate T and provoke some action.
I am hurt that you would jump to this conclusion about me,
when you can be so good at withholding your judgment on so many things.

What makes you think she was not trying to manipulate and provoke me?
Is it just because I was able to resist being provoked myself?
Was it because I am just a thousand times better at frustrating her,
because I don't just start yelling, but use my brain instead?

That makes me manipulative?

And you may think protest is a useless form of confrontation,
but I think many in this country have forgotten how effective it is.
Just look at how many people are talking about this now.

And the reason I did not run off to the other thread is simple.
They were assassinating my character, and I stayed largely to defend it.
Also, I am a trailblazer, so, once I got them talking about it,
my job there, I felt, was done. I'm not going to babysit.
They heard me, and they actually started discussing it.

And even if you think I was not making real arguments,
can you see that I at least made consistent attempts to do so?
While others were sending me short posts that just said,
"you are crazy", or "we heard you", or "go away", and so on?

I'm supposed to just walk away?
When she is saying "b!tch", "pansy", "a$$hole"?

You think those words aren't manipulative?
You think I can just walk away from that?

Or that I am more guilty
than she is for not walking away,
and allowing it to hook me?

Even though I managed not to turn into an animal?

posted March 29, 2009 02:34 AM         

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It's impossible to convey precisely what we're seeing and thinking.
And that gives a tremendous sense of frustration.
Especially if your desire to share them or understand them is very intense.
I felt like for most of my life.
It gives you a sadness and sense of being intrinsically alone.

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posted March 29, 2009 02:37 AM         

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What makes you think she was not trying to manipulate and provoke me?

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OMG!!!!

You are the one that came into a thread I started and gave me a piece of your mind, quite nastily, trying to be Big Daddy and give me a verbal spanking and then proceeded to rant on about how awful people like us, who found things funny at that site, are for it. How wrong it was in your mind and that we needed to listen to you until we realized your side and agreed with YOU. You wouldnt hear anything from anyone else as usual. And then wouldnt let it go!!!!!

posted March 29, 2009 02:56 AM         

so many people judging and playing ringmaster

PA, l mostly chose to agree with you, especially your last post about everyone having a choice.

HSC, l find you inspiring on LL. I just wanted you to know that and i'll never judge you nor mock you. I think this comment of yours shows great intellect and inward insight.

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I have openned myself up too wide for too long, and all but drowned
in the contradictory voices of the collective unconscious.

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I think it's good that everyone has a conscious desire to have boundaries and some form of limitation with the wrong people. I am too open, honest and kind in real life and i get stabbed and attacked, resented and batted just like you do sometimes I'm learning though that people need to earn my trust in them over large amounts of time.

posted March 29, 2009 03:00 AM         

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So many people judging and playing ringmaster

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posted March 29, 2009 03:01 AM         

Ignoring me again, I see.

I was not saying you were trying to manipulating me.

Listen to my explaination before you think for yourself.

You know that can be dangerous for you.

First of all,
I was talking about the situation last night.

Not about how it began. But how it was exacerbated.

And my comment was to suggest to AG that it
doesnt make any more sense to say I was trying
to be manipulative than to say that you were,
and, if anything, there is reason to think you might be.

But that is a far cry from saying that was your intention,
as AG just said about me.

If you want to talk about how it began...

I thought you called someone a "***** "
because she was linked to several recent partners.

I reacted as I saw fit to that.

Then you corrected me,
and told me you made an error,
and meant to put it in quotes,
as it was not said by you...

My response was short and to the point:
"You know how to pick 'em, T.
You're very welcome."

Then I saw you had edited your correction
to add a snide comment about my suicide thread.

So I said
"my threads are about compassion,
bold and free thinking.
unlike this one."

You continued to banter with me.
I'm not sure at what point my criticism
was turned into an unforgiveable invasion.
It looks like we were going back and forth,
each playing an equal part in egging the other on.

I said the guy was a jerk,
so you implied I was a jerk.
Then I said "can't lead a bull to water"
and "yup I'm done".

It would have ended there,
I swear to f---ing God.

Then Ghani said the hypocrite thing.

The rest is history.

Do I really have to take ALL the blame?

I think there is more than enough to go around.

Please dont talk about any potential diagnosis of mine.

And dont think you know anything, or that it explains anything.

Or I'll sick Glaucus on you, and he'll tell you what a gift it is.

peace

posted March 29, 2009 03:04 AM         

I was sincerely concerned, believe it or not.

And I wasnt manipulating you when I refused
to match you yell-for-yell, either.

I'm sure if I screamed "f- you, you dumb b!tch!" it would have provoked you.

And it would have been much easier that practicing self-control.

But think what you want to think.

I'm done with this.

posted March 29, 2009 03:05 AM         

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26Taurus,
Ignoring me again, I see.

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You know VERY well that by taking about me here, by bringing me up, you are provoking me into replying. Then you can say "Look everyone, she can't ignore me."

No. Not so fast.

I will continue to NOT ignore you and reply to defend myself against your insanity and BS.

So there you go. Drop the "ignoring" thing now. 'Cause I take it back if you are going to continue to talk about me here.