posted April 07, 2009 10:15 PM            

Xodian, well said.

Those are examples of false humility.

But don't you agree, there is a higher kind?

posted April 07, 2009 11:23 PM              

Think about it. You may be conversing with someone and think you know much more than they do and maybe you do! But a humble person will still be very aware of the fact that the situation presented to them is one in which they have things to learn from, about themselves. That everyone/thing is divine and there for your (& the other's) growth. Even if it's just by observing their actions and responses or other stimuli - and not necessarily by what they are saying to you - there is always a lot to be learned. They are there and saying something to you for a reason and it's not an accident. Everyone is here for your betterment. Maybe it's to help you lose your ego, be a little more compassionate, practice patience or face some inner demons. Or to just remember what's Real. There is often a lot to be learned by reading between people's lines as well. Extracting messages out of what they are not saying or what they are doing or not doing. There is just so much to learn....from everything.

posted April 07, 2009 11:30 PM              

The Holy Spirit has very little to teach the one who lacks true humility (Psalm 25:9).
And a mark of true humility is a teachable spirit.

Interesting article too.

quote:

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Pride is having a high opinion of oneself, manifested by an arrogant and haughty spirit; or in more subtle ways, such as having "pride in one's humility." True humility comes from having an accurate view of oneself, that is, that we see ourselves as God sees us.

---

posted April 07, 2009 11:38 PM            

"Those who fear the darkness have never seen what the light is capable of."

People who stand up for virtue have tortured and slaughtered countless people, and continue to do so to this very day. It's amazing how even gang rapes are carried out in the name of virtue. I recall reading an interview with one guy who tortured and raped prisoners and went to church on Sunday and saw nothing wrong with what he did--regrettable, yes, but also necessary in his view. Others are lone gunmen that are considered crazy by most other people, but many respectable institutions have existed (such as the Spanish Inquisition) that sought to turn back darkness and bring in light instead of practicing humility & forbearance. Indeed, some of these acts are mandated by law.

I learned very emphatically when I was a teen to beware the light and that there is good in the darkness (just as there's good to be found in the light and elements to beware of in the darkness).

posted April 08, 2009 01:03 AM            

You make some very good points.

A humble and astute person can learn from what is not said.

But many people are neither humble nor astute,
and are not attentive to the nuances you wish to convey.

In such instances, and for the sake of these people,
who perhaps have the greatest need of your instruction,
it would appear necessary to extend yourself
(as you very admirably do, from time to time).

Kindness, yes.

But sometimes, for kindness' sake,
don't we have to be "cruel" (to be kind)?

I aspire to consider it a kindness,
when a person rebukes me for a fault.

And I hope that others will, too.

posted April 08, 2009 01:16 AM            

It is so easy to get carried away,
when we assume the role of "crusader".

This is a major temptation which confronts
anybody who would be a defender of justice.

We should examine and re-examine our motives,
and be sure that the good things we are promoting
are truly good, and not dictates of arbitrary dogma.

Surely, the lesson we can take from history
is not to turn back and refuse to champion the light,
but, to take greater care that what we call "light",
is indeed light, and not another form of darkness.

posted April 08, 2009 01:27 AM              

And on extending oneself; I think, yes, it is often necessary, as we are human and here to help one another, but you have to feel things out with someone first. Because sometimes we mistake times when we think it might be appropriate to give "instruction" when it really isnt. Over time you become a good interpreter of who would be open to - and who might actually hear you, just by listening closely to them and what they themselves say in general conversation. Meeting with someone on whatever "level" I guess you could say. Knowing what is an invitation or what might just be a waste of time or go unheard. Who is looking for help from you and who isnt.

posted April 08, 2009 01:37 AM              

It is a momentary sting,
to innoculate us against a crueler fate.

posted April 08, 2009 02:22 AM            

I'm going to think again on your words, T,
but first I'll tell you my "intuitive" response,
though you've heard my opinion on this before.

I think that when people seem closed-off,
that is just a habitual, surface response.
I think they are unconsciously begging to be instructed,
and (unconsciously) testing to see if you can accomplish it.

If you respond with perfect reason, tact, and love,
your words will never go to waste, by any means.
They may not bear instant karmic fruit, but they are seeds,
which you either plant, or water and tend, as they grow.

I believe this, but, even if I am wrong,
I am reminded that, it is not between "us and them",
but, that it is an effort we make for God,
regardless of consequence.

These are my thoughts,
but I'm still considering yours.

posted April 08, 2009 02:34 AM              

quote:

---

I think that when people seem closed-off,
that is just a habitual, surface response.
I think they are unconsciously begging to be instructed,
and (unconsciously) testing to see if you can accomplish it.

---

That's very interesting. I suppose some are...some of the time...

quote:

---

If you respond with perfect reason, tact, and love,
your words will never go to waste, by any means.

---

Yes! Bingo.

posted April 08, 2009 02:43 AM            

Even if the person you respond to is not receptive,
there may be a number of people listening-in who are.

Silent observors are likely to be more receptive,
since they are in a more objective position,
and not as defensive as the participants.

posted April 08, 2009 03:06 AM              

& I learn a great deal from you too.

posted April 08, 2009 05:32 AM            

I really like your 'humble man' post, T.

posted April 08, 2009 10:43 AM            

T, I really like what you said there. I think that makes total sense.

I think to assume that anyone needs somebody elses "instruction" is part of ego, whether or not the person who feels the need to "teach" realizes it. I don't think everyone always asks for what they need, but they certainly don't subconsciously ask for what they don't. Just my two cents, but when you assume the role of "teacher", you are proposing to assert your will onto somebody else. "I feel you need to learn this"... which, in turn, may get the other person's ego up, and then they will definatley be unwilling to "learn". People have a tendency to learn things when they are ready to, the timing is right for them to see things in this new way, or to understand something on a different level. It seems defeatist to try and speed up that process because one feels it's their duty to "teach".